Ronhend 0 #1 January 26, 2016 http://youtu.be/EFyyLbD-Y7o Pretty wild ride! RonATP B-727 B767-757 CFI-II Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Absolut 0 #2 January 26, 2016 Quickest way to get all the skydivers out for a big formation ;-) hope they were all alright :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #3 January 26, 2016 I'm not sure what the statute of limitations is on this little incident but not really a cool thing to post. I thought all the tapes had been erased. The FAA isn't exactly cool about things like that. That door being wide open is totally illegal. I don't care what the military did in WWII. That configuration is not approved for good reason. It's too big a hole to fly if you lose the starboard engine. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #4 January 26, 2016 I get sick of all the "statute of limitations " comments about anything and everything...has anyone ever heard of anything coming back to bite someone from 20 yrs or more ago ? honest to fuck...there are so many stories that i never get to hear cuz someone always pulls out the statute card at the bonfire... smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keithbar 1 #5 January 26, 2016 Check the inside of the plane video. A sea of frap hats. With one lonely pro-tec gotta love it. That dates it for sure i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuai43 7 #6 January 27, 2016 Ronhendhttp://youtu.be/EFyyLbD-Y7o Pretty wild ride! Ron I'm not familiar with jumping a DC-3. Any particular reason the gear was down?Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #8 January 27, 2016 normiss It wasn't. Kinda looks like the gear was down? A flash of what looks like a wheel can be seen at 18 seconds. And seen during the recovery I think. I hear they sometimes put the gear down on, what was it, Lodestars, but hadn't heard about that for DC-3's. Not sure how much of a beneficial forward effect it would have on the C of G, especially on the larger DC-3. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #9 January 27, 2016 Gear positively is down."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #10 January 27, 2016 The DC-3 has quite the "bumps" when the gear is retracted, usually appear to be 1/2 or more exposed. Hard to tell from the quality of the video, for me anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #11 January 27, 2016 Only the lower half of the wheel is exposed when retracted."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raftman 12 #12 January 27, 2016 Where's the rest of the video? Did they build the formation or not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #13 January 27, 2016 Thanks. It was mentioned to me that the gear may have been in transition when the pilot felt the stall, maybe he dropped the gear to slow the spin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #14 January 27, 2016 I would think dropping the gear would add to the problem. Don't remember on my 3 jumps whether the gear was down but it was for all of my Beech 18 jumps.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #15 January 27, 2016 I'm not sure I would classify that as a real spin. It looks more like a Vmc roll to me: 1. Port engine throttled back. 2. Aft CG. 3. Airspeed falls below Vmc. 4. Starboard engine pulls it's wing over the top. I was in a KingAir that did a Vmc roll on jumprun, and it did just that. In both cases, once the nose was pointed at the ground, the spin ended."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rickendiver 6 #16 January 27, 2016 From what I could see in the video the aircraft was in a spiral dive after the spin recovery, which allows the aircraft to rapidly gain airspeed. The pilot had full aileron deflection to stop the spiral. (Conversely, rudder input would be used to stop a spin rotation). Lowering the gear in a DC3 or Beech 18 will move the CG forward a bit, but also increases drag to slow down the rapid acceleration while recovering from the dive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tikl68 6 #17 January 27, 2016 Not directed at your post. I would think a pilot would be pretty busy trying to recover the aircraft, and PROBABLY not have time in the middle of a roll to reach over and drop the gear until after he had the roll stopped and had the nose pointed down and was gaining air speed. But you never know there are some badass pilots out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rickendiver 6 #18 January 27, 2016 I know a few badass pilotsOr, to speculate- The stall/spin may have been a result of losing the port engine on jump run. If the port engine had the only operational hydraulic pump, the loss of hydraulic pressure would cause the gear to free fall down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #19 January 28, 2016 airdvrI would think dropping the gear would add to the problem. Don't remember on my 3 jumps whether the gear was down but it was for all of my Beech 18 jumps. There may be some center of gravity benefit for putting the gear down, but I would also think that extra drag located low like that would cause a bit of a rotational moment lifting the tail.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #20 January 28, 2016 "Statute of limitations"? Hah! That sounds like "lawyer speak!" Wise people learn from the mistakes of others ... even if those mistakes occurred 40 years ago. As for the gear being down .. definitely in this video of a DC-3, but not any of the times I jumped DC-3 or C-47. Not even the Canadian Air Force lowered the gear when I jumped a CAF C-47 back in 1981. OTOH it was standard practice for Lodestars to lower the gear before jump run. Lowered gear helped shift the center of gravity farther forward. Forward C of G was important on Lodestars because the door was too far aft of the C of G. That was also back during the late-1970s when 10-way speed stars were the hottest competition event and they were just starting learning how to launch chunks. Lodestars retired in disgrace after too many stall-spin accidents. My old buddy Tom Classen (sp?) had a scary story about the Lodestar that spun in near Arlington, Washington back during the early 1980s! Scary! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #21 January 28, 2016 jumpwally I get sick of all the "statute of limitations " comments about anything and everything...has anyone ever heard of anything coming back to bite someone from 20 yrs or more ago ? honest to fuck...there are so many stories that i never get to hear cuz someone always pulls out the statute card at the bonfire... And the rest of us are pretty sick of the societal predication to post for the world to see every bit of video footage.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #22 January 28, 2016 I've seen gear dropped on a PA-31 to try and coax a little more nose down due to drag. It is effective but I'm all that confident with the practice... -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #23 January 29, 2016 That first youtube video was just above another video of a study that NACA (predecessor to NASA) did on DC-3 stalls back in 1938. Interesting how tuft tests showed the DC-3 wing stalling first at the tip, then the aileron stalls and much later the wing root stalls. Since World War 2 most airplanes have designed to stall in the opposite order: wing root first and aileron last, so that you retain some roll control part-way into the stall. I wonder if the factory changed DC-3 stall characteristics during WW2? Did any of the post-war STCs change stall characteristics? Has anyone published a pilot report about DC-3 handling near the stall? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fencebuster 7 #24 January 29, 2016 We fly with gear down in our PA-31 on jump run. It is most stable in the landing configuration and it gets the tail up and out of the way.Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208 AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #25 January 29, 2016 riggerrobThat first youtube video was just above another video of a study that NACA (predecessor to NASA) did on DC-3 stalls back in 1938. Interesting how tuft tests showed the DC-3 wing stalling first at the tip, then the aileron stalls and much later the wing root stalls. Since World War 2 most airplanes have designed to stall in the opposite order: wing root first and aileron last, so that you retain some roll control part-way into the stall. I wonder if the factory changed DC-3 stall characteristics during WW2? Did any of the post-war STCs change stall characteristics? Has anyone published a pilot report about DC-3 handling near the stall? A quick search found THIS. Interesting discussion. Apparently, the DC-3 has a swept wing (although it isn't really obvious). Which leads to "interesting" stall behavior. Some of the first hand experiences related in the link are... Interesting. The catastrophic engine failure at the end must have been exciting too."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites