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SkyDekker

The US is a Banana Republic

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6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

He is basically a madman at this point. John Kelly said it best...Trump “is the most flawed person” he's ever known.

If the 25th amendment isn't invoked now then when? Most troubling are his apologists. Even now, when he has openly called for insurrection, Trumpie's are hiding from their own complicity by dismissing the terrorist attack on our nations Capital as a dust up because no uniformed Generals were seen in attendance. I guess commie peoples armies and militias don't count.

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1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

If the 25th amendment isn't invoked now then when?

IDK much about the mechanics of how that would work. But if it could be done and finished today or tomorrow then yes, probably for the best. But most likely that would be seen as escalating the situation into a constitutional crisis. I don't really have a good answer if the risk in the next 12 days justifies that unprecedented action. My gut feeling is that you will just have to wait it out. Hopefully he has responsible babysitters. I believe Jared is outside of the country ducking his head. 

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52 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

IDK much about the mechanics of how that would work. But if it could be done and finished today or tomorrow then yes, probably for the best. But most likely that would be seen as escalating the situation into a constitutional crisis. I don't really have a good answer if the risk in the next 12 days justifies that unprecedented action. My gut feeling is that you will just have to wait it out. Hopefully he has responsible babysitters. I believe Jared is outside of the country ducking his head. 

Pence sends a letter to Congress with the support of 8 Cabinet members and Pelosi accepts the letter. Then Pence is immediately President for 20 day's while Trump disputes the finding.

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1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

Pence sends a letter to Congress with the support of 8 Cabinet members and Pelosi accepts the letter. Then Pence is immediately President for 20 day's while Trump disputes the finding.

Then make it so number 2.

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1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

I'm going to disagree with that one. The events of yesterday show how hard it would be to make it happen. There has never been a successful uprising in the USA. The last successful territory wide uprising preceded the formation of the nation and the civil war failed to destroy it.

Good point, but:

Right now he still has the nuclear launch codes. A man who once pondered using them against a hurricane.

There weren't any nukes back in the Civil War.

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2 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Right now he still has the nuclear launch codes. A man who once pondered using them against a hurricane.

But that has nothing to do with what I was responding to. I agree he is potentially dangerous as long as he holds the office of POTUS.

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5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

But that has nothing to do with what I was responding to. I agree he is potentially dangerous as long as he holds the office of POTUS.

The idea American democracy cannot fail is preposterous and entirely unsupported in history. If anything the last 4 years have shown how fragile it is and how much of it is based on decorum and tradition.

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7 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

The idea American democracy cannot fail is preposterous and entirely unsupported in history. If anything the last 4 years have shown how fragile it is and how much of it is based on decorum and tradition.

Like a vaccine, democracy will only work if a certain percentage of the population is well informed enough to sustain it.

Democracy is part of the social contract, so it really only lives in the minds of people. Not in buildings or inanimate objects. So what's quite shocking here is fake news appears to be more contagious than measles. This will be more difficult to fight than covid-19.

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30 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Like a vaccine, democracy will only work if a certain percentage of the population is well informed enough to sustain it.

Democracy is part of the social contract, so it really only lives in the minds of people. Not in buildings or inanimate objects. So what's quite shocking here is fake news appears to be more contagious than measles. This will be more difficult to fight than covid-19.

Democracy, like your iPhone, has too many features for the most of the electorate. Hence the national yearning for rotary dialing. 

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(edited)
56 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

The idea American democracy cannot fail is preposterous and entirely unsupported in history. If anything the last 4 years have shown how fragile it is and how much of it is based on decorum and tradition.

Also not what I said. I made no prediction of future events at all. I just said that there has not been a previous successful insurrection. I would also say that yesterday's events were not even close to one either. They were a massive failure of the security forces to anticipate and prevent though. There may be an element of co-operation with the Trumpistas in that which warrants a very thorough investigation. And heads need to roll for allowing it to happen. But they are likely heads that would roll shortly anyway.

Edited by gowlerk

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26 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

would also say that yesterday's events were not even close to one either. They were a massive failure of the security forces to anticipate and prevent though. There may be an element of co-operation with the Trumpistas in that which warrants a very thorough investigation.

There are some suggestions that federal agencies may have slow-walked support. That would be significantly more than a dust-up.

Much of yesterday's violence is due to people believing yesterday was the day Trump was going to arrest and execute all the blood drinking paedophiles who rule America. Imagine what a more believable fake story could accomplish...

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18 hours ago, airdvr said:

You might want to untwist those panties Francis.  Some are calling it a coup attempt, armed insurrection and the like.  I don't see any generals joining the fray.  Until that happens this is merely a dust up.

Why would you need Generals instigating it for it to be a coup attempt? Coups don't have to be military, if they were then the phrase 'military coup' wouldn't need to exist.

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9 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

There are some suggestions that federal agencies may have slow-walked support. That would be significantly more than a dust-up.

A BBC reporter spoke to someone who claimed to have been one of the first into the Capitol and they asked how much they had planned in advance. He said basically nothing, but when they saw how few policemen were on the barricades they decided on the spur of the moment that it looked totally doable and just went for it.

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2 minutes ago, jakee said:

Why would you need Generals instigating it for it to be a coup attempt? Coups don't have to be military, if they were then the phrase 'military coup' wouldn't need to exist.

Because a general would have the organizational skills that no trumper possesses!

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2 hours ago, olofscience said:

Good point, but:

Right now he still has the nuclear launch codes.

So what? What can he do with those? My understanding is that having the codes is necessary but insufficient for a launch. He doesn't just punch them into an app on his phone--he would need help. Help he isn't going to get. The system is not on a hair-trigger. If it were, the close calls we've had would have gone much differently.

At one time, the code was all zeroes. They must believe in their other security measures and processes. 

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3 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

However, Gaddafi was only a colonel.

Muammar Gaddafi - Wikipedia

Jerry Baumchen

Funny you would mention Libya. I was just reading this in which President Obama talked about how the lack of planning for the overthrow of Gaddafi. About how the tribalism of the Libyan culture, sound familiar? Combined with the lack of planning for an after Gaddafi. Led to the big mess thereafter which continues to today.

Now associated with that story and lessons not learned. trump has just walked away from Iraq and Afghanistan Leaving two big Sh*t piles for Biden to clean up.

spacer.png

Just too bad this truck couldn't swing by the WH and vacuum somebody up for suitable disposal.

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19 minutes ago, nwt said:

So what? What can he do with those? My understanding is that having the codes is necessary but insufficient for a launch. He doesn't just punch them into an app on his phone--he would need help. Help he isn't going to get. The system is not on a hair-trigger. If it were, the close calls we've had would have gone much differently.

At one time, the code was all zeroes. They must believe in their other security measures and processes. 

I cannot stress this enough - I really hope you're right.

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1 hour ago, nwt said:

So what? What can he do with those? My understanding is that having the codes is necessary but insufficient for a launch. He doesn't just punch them into an app on his phone--he would need help.

I can just see it now.  
Trump: "Hey Ashton, I want to launch a nuke at Iran.  Bastards have never respected me."
Sec.Carter: "Sure thing Mr Trump.  I just . . . uh . . . have to call all the other secretaries and the vice president and get them all to sign a letter, then take it to Congress.  That's how it works, see!"

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23 minutes ago, billvon said:

I can just see it now.  
Trump: "Hey Ashton, I want to launch a nuke at Iran.  Bastards have never respected me."
Sec.Carter: "Sure thing Mr Trump.  I just . . . uh . . . have to call all the other secretaries and the vice president and get them all to sign a letter, then take it to Congress.  That's how it works, see!"

Barbie Make-us-enemies just announced at a press statement that now is the time to come together for a peaceful transition of power. Me wonders is someone pointed out to his dead ferret headedness that fomenting insurrection by an elected official is treason.

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3 hours ago, jakee said:

Why would you need Generals instigating it for it to be a coup attempt? Coups don't have to be military, if they were then the phrase 'military coup' wouldn't need to exist.

I'd like to see anyone take control of our government without the help of the military.

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1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Barbie Make-us-enemies just announced at a press statement that now is the time to come together for a peaceful transition of power. Me wonders is someone pointed out to his dead ferret headedness that fomenting insurrection by an elected official is treason.

This is exactly what happened in my opinion. Plus there are reports the orange dufus was warned by the WH lawyer he could have some personal exposure here.

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