Chloroquine results in higher death rates

[billvon 2,400]

A preprint of a study shows no benefit to hydroxychloroquine usage, and in fact when used alone, increases the death rate of infected patients.

=====================================================

In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19. An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone.

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1.full.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0ildC9WUf0eTiutccKpWL-T4WlDWkR-xMZsj-LuM9QymCLxFc8n31Hhi8

[kallend 1,623]

Only an idiot would take medical advice from a proven con-man and pathological liar.

[nigel99 144]

53 minutes ago, kallend said:

Only an idiot would take medical advice from a proven con-man and pathological liar.

Darwin. Let them listen, maybe it’s what is needed to get Biden across the line

[tonyhays 86]

Snake oil salesmen sells snake oil.

I'm shocked.

[yoink 321]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

A preprint of a study shows no benefit to hydroxychloroquine usage, and in fact when used alone, increases the death rate of infected patients.

=====================================================

In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19. An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone.

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1.full.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0ildC9WUf0eTiutccKpWL-T4WlDWkR-xMZsj-LuM9QymCLxFc8n31Hhi8

A drug that has heart conditions as a side effect causes higher mortality in patients it's not approved for???

Color me shocked.

 

Where did the idea of chloroquine being used first come from, anyway? Why THAT particular drug? It's not like we just started tossing every single drug available at a bunch of patients and had a paper come out on each saying 'nope, doesn't help'.

[kallend 1,623]

4 hours ago, yoink said:

 

 

Where did the idea of chloroquine being used first come from, anyway? Why THAT particular drug? It's not like we just started tossing every single drug available at a bunch of patients and had a paper come out on each saying 'nope, doesn't help'.

"People are saying....."

[turtlespeed 212]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

"People are saying....."

This study would raise my confidence in effectiveness. https://aac.asm.org/content/53/8/3416

There are at least 20 other trials going on.  https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731

Lets not jump on the first bandwagon that shows the negative results that you would like to see.

[RonD1120 58]

10 hours ago, kallend said:

Only an idiot would take medical advice from a proven con-man and pathological liar.

What medicine did your son receive?

[RonD1120 58]

15 hours ago, billvon said:

A preprint of a study shows no benefit to hydroxychloroquine usage, and in fact when used alone, increases the death rate of infected patients.

=====================================================

In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19. An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone.

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1.full.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0ildC9WUf0eTiutccKpWL-T4WlDWkR-xMZsj-LuM9QymCLxFc8n31Hhi8

Keep the fear alive, it is a good crisis after all.

If you contracted C-19 would you refuse Hydroxychloroquine and a Z-pack?

[kallend 1,623]

3 minutes ago, RonD1120 said:

What medicine did your son receive?

Oxygen isn't medicine.

[Phil1111 911]

7 hours ago, tonyhays said:

Snake oil salesmen sells snake oil.

I'm shocked.

 

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

This study would raise my confidence in effectiveness. https://aac.asm.org/content/53/8/3416

There are at least 20 other trials going on.  https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731

Lets not jump on the first bandwagon that shows the negative results that you would like to see.

There is always a buyer for almost anything, probably, possibly, but sometimes not.. Thats why trump rambles from talking point to talking point. Throwing something out then a minute later taking it back. Some flavor of pablum will stick and be lapped up.

[Skwrl 56]

2 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

Keep the fear alive, it is a good crisis after all.

If you contracted C-19 would you refuse Hydroxychloroquine and a Z-pack?

I would absolutely avoid hydroxychloroquine.  Absolutely.   Prolonged QT interval (heart arrhythmias), blindness, heart attack and stroke are known side effects at the theoretically necessary dose needed for efficacy.   There was a theoretical reason to try it (inhibition of lysosomal activity and transcriptase) but the data so far aren't promising at all.  Also, the window by which it has to be dosed is quite early (by time you have ARDS-like symptoms, it's too basically too late).  So you're making a bet not knowing if you might have a mild case anyway and made other matters worse.

If the data were promising, I would consider it if I was in dire straits, but anecdotes and Trump touting it aren't evidence.  

Disclaimer - I work for a pharmaceutical research company that has an affiliate that manufactures hydroxychloroquine, so this isn't my employer's position or using any information of my employer's or that affiliate's.  

Edited April 22, 2020 by Skwrl
straits was spelled wrong

[ryoder 1,384]

7 hours ago, yoink said:

Where did the idea of chloroquine being used first come from, anyway? Why THAT particular drug? It's not like we just started tossing every single drug available at a bunch of patients and had a paper come out on each saying 'nope, doesn't help'.

Here is a video from the SciShow Youtube channel. They give a brief, concise explanation of why there might be a benefit:

 

[Baksteen 84]

Inhibition of lysosmal activity? I always understood that lysosomes safeguard against pathogens, so I would expect reduced lysosome activity with increased cell vulnerability. Not trying to discredit your post, just confused.

[Skwrl 56]

8 hours ago, yoink said:

Where did the idea of chloroquine being used first come from, anyway? Why THAT particular drug? It's not like we just started tossing every single drug available at a bunch of patients and had a paper come out on each saying 'nope, doesn't help'.

So, in theory it's not entirely crazy.   Exactly how it works against malaria isn't fully understood, but is known to inhibit lysosome and some of the signaling pathways that can trigger the autoimmune cytokine storm that actually kills (most) patients in the ARDS-like state at the end-stage of COVID19 infection.  So it theoretically could have been a one-two punch.  

The plural of "anecdote" isn't "data", though, so it's only now that we're seeing a lot more well-controlled studies are we seeing that it may not be as effective as hoped.   But time will tell, we don't have all the information yet.  

Edited April 22, 2020 by Skwrl
confusing edit.

[Skwrl 56]

8 minutes ago, Baksteen said:

Inhibition of lysosmal activity? I always understood that lysosomes safeguard against pathogens, so I would expect reduced lysosome activity with increased cell vulnerability. Not trying to discredit your post, just confused.

The video Ryoder posted has a way more complete explanation.  Your confusion is valid, but there's a reason why we want to do that with the ARDS-like stuff that happens with COVID19.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Skwrl

[Baksteen 84]

Can't see that at work, but I'll check it out once I get home. Cheers.

[DJL 232]

1 hour ago, RonD1120 said:

If you contracted C-19 would you refuse Hydroxychloroquine and a Z-pack?

YES!  Because according to the link in your own post it DOESN'T FUCKING WORK!

[kallend 1,623]

THE PRESIDENT (4/5/2020):  "And I hope they use the hydroxychloroquine, and they can also do it with Z-Pak, subject to your doctor’s approval, and all of that.  But I hope they use it because I’ll tell you what: What do you have to lose?  In some cases, they’re in bad shape.  What do you have to lose?"

Now we know.

[billvon 2,400]

4 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

Keep the fear alive, it is a good crisis after all.

Uh . . . having people take drugs that kill them doesn't help reduce fear.

Quote

If you contracted C-19 would you refuse Hydroxychloroquine and a Z-pack?

Hell yes I'd refuse a drug that has not been shown to be effective and sometimes kills people.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

5 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Lets not jump on the first bandwagon that shows the negative results that you would like to see.

Holy shit that is some funny stuff.

[Phil1111 911]

IT ALSO GETS YOU FIRED

Doctor Says He Was Removed From Federal Post After Questioning Hydroxychloroquine Treatment

The doctor who led the federal agency involved in developing a coronavirus vaccine said on Wednesday that he was removed from his post after he pressed for a rigorous vetting of a coronavirus treatment embraced by President Trump. The doctor said that science, not “politics and cronyism” must lead the way.

Dummy, clearly he doesn't understand Washington.

[billvon 2,400]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

IT ALSO GETS YOU FIRED

Doctor Says He Was Removed From Federal Post After Questioning Hydroxychloroquine Treatment

The doctor who led the federal agency involved in developing a coronavirus vaccine said on Wednesday that he was removed from his post after he pressed for a rigorous vetting of a coronavirus treatment embraced by President Trump. The doctor said that science, not “politics and cronyism” must lead the way.

Dummy, clearly he doesn't understand Washington.

Well, sure, it may take longer to get a vaccine now.  But at least more people will die in the meantime.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

13 minutes ago, billvon said:

Well, sure, it may take longer to get a vaccine now.  But at least more people will die in the meantime.

Fortunately it's just a math problem.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

[Baksteen 84]

I'm not going to look up any other country, but the Dutch numbers in that link are accurate, as reported (and updated often) by the Dutch government.

There are also several preliminary figures looking into confirmed cases and their underlying medical conditions, distribution of deaths gouped by sex and by age, infections among healthcare staff and among institutionalised people. All in Dutch, I'm afraid*, so I'm not sure what the value in sharing would be.

Dutch hospitals, however, are not overwhelmed.
If necessary, patients from the most heavily affected areas are relocated to and quarantined in areas which do still have the necessary hospital capacity.

 

*Essential text and applicable measures are available in English (https://www.rivm.nl/en) and maybe a few other languages for those who do not speak Dutch well enough.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Baksteen
clicky no worky