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gowlerk

covid-19

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15 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Once again, John, you miss the larger point. We're supposed to be the greatest nation of innovators the world has yet seen, right? Well, then why are we still using other peoples viruses? Sure India has us beat on numbers but even the South Africans managed to develop their own virus. I say we hold tight and wait this out until we have a Texas strain or maybe one from West Virginia.

I thought this whole thing was Bill Gates' fault?

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9 hours ago, billvon said:

There are legal issues in requiring people to get an experimental (i.e. not approved) vaccine.  It's illegal for the military to require soldiers to participate in experimental treatments, for example.

So it sounds like it's time to just approve it. What are they waiting for anyway, the entire world population to take it before it gets approved? Half of Americans have already taken the vaccine. There is no other experimental drug on the planet that has had even 1/50th as many participants. You cant really call it experimental anymore when literately the entire population has taken it... Safe to say if there was something serious we need to know about it, we would already know it.

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(edited)
5 hours ago, Westerly said:

 You cant really call it experimental anymore when literately the entire population has taken it..

"Literally" nothing of the sort.

 

(And what about the illiterates?)

Edited by kallend
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7 hours ago, Westerly said:

So it sounds like it's time to just approve it. What are they waiting for anyway . . .

Perhaps more data from the actual studies going on?

Quote

You cant really call it experimental anymore when literately the entire population has taken it...

If the entire population took hydroxychloroquine because an illiterate carnival barker convinced them to, that would not make it an approved treatment for COVID-19.

Quote

There is no other experimental drug on the planet that has had even 1/50th as many participants.

There is no other pandemic on the planet that has killed three million people in the last few years.

Quote

Safe to say if there was something serious we need to know about it, we would already know it.

Like, say, it increases the odds of dangerous blood clots in women under 50?  We knew that as soon as we started administering it, eh?

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9 hours ago, gowlerk said:
 

Why would they need data when they could just let Westerly's emotions run the show?

Don't know about Westerly but there is real data on why West Virginia is having problems. I give you Governor Jim Justice discussing why a quick 100 bucks will turn the tide in his state. He even drew numbers so we can make sense of it.

For the most inquiring minds we have video, too.

https://www.wboy.com/news/health/coronavirus/watch-live-wv-gov-justice-schedules-covid-19-briefing-for-1-p-m-monday/

Governor Justice.png

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19 hours ago, Westerly said:

So it sounds like it's time to just approve it. What are they waiting for anyway, the entire world population to take it before it gets approved? Half of Americans have already taken the vaccine. There is no other experimental drug on the planet that has had even 1/50th as many participants. You cant really call it experimental anymore when literately the entire population has taken it... Safe to say if there was something serious we need to know about it, we would already know it.

Dude. A year ago you were a poster who I thought was worth reading - your posts were generally well constructed and thought out. But you've lost the plot on this vaccine stuff to the point where in my mind you're now fringe-lunatic on the subject.

You've doubled down on your misunderstanding of the science for the past 7 months or so, with no sign of stopping.

 

Look at what you're typing. In the same paragraph you go from 'half of americans have taken the vaccine' (which is demonstrably wrong with even the simplest google search), to 'literally the entire population has taken it'. You're not even consistent in your attempt to get your crazy across. Science uses facts, not hyperbole.

I get it - you want people vaccinated. So do I. But this isn't the way to get your message across.

 

I don't want an argument. This is my one attempt to try and get you to see that you're not in a good place when it comes to posting on this subject. If you choose not to believe me, so be it.

Edited by yoink

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(edited)

Well on the upside, Covid is on the downhill and soon people can get back to remembering the old days. Specifically, we can get back to our massively over strained, overly bureaucratic and extremely overpriced healthcare system that largely accomplishes little except making shit loads of money from sick people who want nothing more than to just feel better. I had a patient the other day who told me he has spent $300,000 on testing and fees over the last two years for a disease that he still has no diagnosis or treatment plan for...

Edited by Westerly

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2 hours ago, Westerly said:

Well on the upside, Covid is on the downhill and soon people can get back to remembering the old days. Specifically, we can get back to our massively over strained, overly bureaucratic and extremely overpriced healthcare system that largely accomplishes little except making shit loads of money from sick people who want nothing more than to just feel better. I had a patient the other day who told me he has spent $300,000 on testing and fees over the last two years for a disease that he still has no diagnosis or treatment plan for...

 

"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us. To see oursels as ithers see us! It wad frae mony a blunder free us, An' foolish notion"

  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/opinion/healthcare-us.html

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6 hours ago, Westerly said:

I had a patient the other day who told me he has spent $300,000 on testing and fees over the last two years for a disease that he still has no diagnosis or treatment plan for...

Even worse are those who are suffering at home, or on the street because under the US system only the worthy who can pay are treated. 

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57 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Even worse are those who are suffering at home, or on the street because under the US system only the worthy who can pay are treated. 

I disagree with that statement. No one is denied care at an emergency room, they will admit you if you have a serious problem, and basically every hospital writes-off bills of the poorest individuals. 

Now I don't think that it is an efficient or equitable system, and medical bills from one incident can potentially bankrupt a middle class earner that doesn't qualify for subsidized care, but I don't think it is an accurate statement to claim that the poor aren't receiving care because they can't pay.

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3 minutes ago, DougH said:

No one is denied care at an emergency room, they will admit you if you have a serious problem, and basically every hospital writes-off bills of the poorest individuals. 

But if you have a chronic condition and no insurance you are screwed. And if you get emergency treatment and have no one who the hospital can bill they will find a way to discharge you somehow. Try getting your cancer treatment without insurance.

Edited by gowlerk

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10 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

But if you have a chronic condition and no insurance you are screwed. 

Well, if you are poor enough you can get Medicaid.  But I agree that there are still huge gaps, especially in states that did not implement the medicaid expansion called for by the ACA.

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4 hours ago, DougH said:

I disagree with that statement. No one is denied care at an emergency room, they will admit you if you have a serious problem, and basically every hospital writes-off bills of the poorest individuals. 

Now I don't think that it is an efficient or equitable system, and medical bills from one incident can potentially bankrupt a middle class earner that doesn't qualify for subsidized care, but I don't think it is an accurate statement to claim that the poor aren't receiving care because they can't pay.

Sure, but that only covers acute injuries and exabradations where they treat you to the point of stability. That is not sufficient to treat any chronic condition, any illness or any injury. All of those things require follow-up care, sometimes very extensive follow-up care, which is not handled at the ER. The ER does not diagnose or treat illnesses. They check the Hs and Ts. That's it.

I do agree that the poorest do get Medicaid though which is pretty good insurance. It has no deductible or copay which is better than even the most expensive plans that you can purchase on the marketplace.

Edited by Westerly

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9 hours ago, billvon said:

Well, if you are poor enough you can get Medicaid.  But I agree that there are still huge gaps, especially in states that did not implement the medicaid expansion called for by the ACA.

Wait...wasn't ACA supposed to get insurance for everyone?

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4 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Wait...wasn't ACA supposed to get insurance for everyone?

As originally outlined, before all the compromises, and with the Medicaid expansion taken advantage of, it was supposed to make it available, more affordable for the needier, and generally amortize the costs of healthcare among a much greater segment of the population. 
It would never have been perfect, and compromise Didn’t improve it. 
Wendy P. 

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2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Wait...wasn't ACA supposed to get insurance for everyone?

Yes.  All states had to do was pass the Medicaid expansion and everyone would be covered.  39 states did, and thus everyone in those states has 100% coverage. 

I will let you guess which states did not pass it, and what they have in common.  (Hint - they include Texas, Florida, Mississippi and Georgia.)

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2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Wait...wasn't ACA supposed to get insurance for everyone?

Wow, just wow. And you fancy yourself intelligent, informed, and you vote. Here's a news flash, yo, the people you vote for did their best to eviscerate the ACA at every opportunity just so you could say it wasn't a great plan and keep the delusion wheel spinning.

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9 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Wow, just wow. And you fancy yourself intelligent, informed, and you vote. Here's a news flash, yo, the people you vote for did their best to eviscerate the ACA at every opportunity just so you could say it wasn't a great plan and keep the delusion wheel spinning.

He is well informed. The donations from PAC's to the GOP. Which went from $135 million in 2018 to over $400 million last year.Has painted a narrative that the GOP loves. He's swallowed the industries "free market" spin, hook line and sinker.

Nobody knows better where their bread is buttered than US pharma and health care.Bill exorbitantly, donate to the GOP, the base swallows the messaging. Continue.

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