Security risk from foreign terrorists

[SkyDekker 1,122]

It was an honest question, but you don't care about any answers cause you have made up your mind.

lol....Trump supporter I take it?

[billvon 2,400]

>This question is for all of you who don't want the wall built. Why? Honestly...why do
>you care whether or not there is a wall on our southern border?

Personally I don't care too much. If Trump got the money from Mexico, and went through the usual review process so he wasn't destroying any animal migration routes or anything, I wouldn't care too much.

However, as it stands, it's a waste of billions. And during a time when our deficit is hitting new records, it is a mistake to waste billions.

[ryoder 1,384]

And to be clear, the $5.7B Trump is demanding, is not enough to build the wall.
Here is an estimate from Fox News that says it would take $25B: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trumps-border-wall-how-much-it-will-actually-cost-according-to-a-statistician

This Senate report estimates $70B: https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/border-wall-report

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,400]

>the Holy Spirit brought weapons back into my awareness . . . we are being guided in
>preparation

God brought you to guns and told you to prepare?

I have a very strong feeling that if you had a neighbor who was collecting an arsenal and told you "Allah told me to prepare to take action" you'd call the cops.

[airdvr 197]

SkyDekker

It was an honest question, but you don't care about any answers cause you have made up your mind.

lol....Trump supporter I take it?

To a degree I am a Trump supporter. I'm certainly not a Pelosi / Schumer supporter. I cringe daily at what the Donald tweets.

I made up my mind that I'm tired of the political football it's become. I'm trying to figure out why everyone is so against it. OK...it's alot of money. But that argument pales when it comes from the mouths of Pelosi and Schumer. All of a sudden they care about how much it costs? From the 2 states in the union that spend like drunken sailors.

Not effective? Meh. Your average border jumper isn't going to have the wherewithall to get over.

Change immigration policy? Not until you secure that border.

Someone showed an article from a Republican congressperson from TX saying we don't need a wall. What about a Republican congressperson from AZ?

In 2000, the Department of Homeland Security built a wall in the Tucson, Arizona, sector. Over 15 years, border apprehensions from CBP dropped by 90 percent. In 2005, DHS built a wall in Yuma, Arizona. There, border apprehensions dropped 95 percent over nine years, according to CBP data. These are just a couple of places where we’ve built a wall and the wall has worked.

It will take more than just a physical barrier to solve the problem of illegal immigration once and for all. But coupled with more border patrol agents and enhanced technology, we can send the message that we are serious about securing our border. Only then will the U.S. finally show the world we have borders, and they must be respected.

Rep. Debbie Lesko, R-Ariz., is a co-sponsor of the "Build the Wall, Enforce the Law Act of 2018."

I don't really know the answer. We've had an immigration problem from Mexico for as long as I can remember. Seems as though nothing we've done short of building walls has been effective.

CBP puts the numbers as follows...

In November, 51,856 people were apprehended between ports of entry on the Southwest Border, compared with 51,001 in the month of October. In FY18, a total of 396,579 individuals were apprehended between ports of entry on our Southwest Border.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

To my way of thinking that's alot of people. I'm thinking between ports of entry is other than a border checkpoint. Would a wall stop it? Probably not. Would it slow it down? Probably. Do I have a problem with almost 400,000 people crossing the border illegally each year? I don't know. Tell me why I shouldn't.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[SkyDekker 1,122]

This is too funny:

https://twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1083140191362048000

[billvon 2,400]

>Tell me why I shouldn't.

You may not get many takers. You might well reply again "I just don't care at this point. Why doesn't everyone STFU about it?"

But on the off chance you are serious this time -

Because 1) illegal immigration has both positive and negative effects to the US as a whole, 2) illegal immigrants fulfill an important need for US agriculture (specifically migrant crop workers) 3) illegal immigrants are more law abiding (other than the illegal crossing of course) than US citizens 4) we need all those immigrants to keep programs like Social Securit afloat and 5) the rate of illegal crossing is on the decline. Those are five reasons that suggest it's not much of a problem.

The problem is not immigration, the problem is that it's illegal. So fix that. Make it legal for migrant workers come here to work. Scan them at the border to ID them, give them a card, and require them to pay taxes. Withhold pay at the maximum rate (39.6%? whatever it is now) and let them get a refund - at the US embassy in their home country, and they have to show up in person. Reject only the people who show up with criminal records. Get those 400,000 people a year coming through legal border entry points.

Do the same thing for refugees. Let them in and give them a court date. Let them work while they are here. If they have a valid reason to emigrate, let them. If they spent the time waiting working and being productive, let them stay. (Note - this is very close to what we do now; we just have to eliminate the people trying to shut down/cripple that system.)

[ryoder 1,384]

SkyDekker

This is too funny:

https://twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1083140191362048000

The Snopes page has links to video as well: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trackdown-trump-character-wall/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quote

Change immigration policy? Not until you secure that border.

Maybe this is a good place to start. I hear a lot of people saying this, but what does that mean? When would you consider the border to be secure? Can you give an example of any border in the world you would consider to be secure?

There is no doubt that physical barriers can help reduce the flow of people. It would appear that in many areas that has already been accomplished. I am all for maintaining those barriers/walls or improving them if required.

I haven't seen anything that would indicate a plan, something that shows where additional barriers would actually be effective. I doubt you would have been willing to give $5.7 billion to President Hillary Clinton for Healthcare, without a clear plan on what it would be spent on, but the union of nurses said the nurses are demanding it.

[Phil1111 911]

ryoder

***This is too funny:

https://twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1083140191362048000

The Snopes page has links to video as well: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trackdown-trump-character-wall/


WTF

God sure works in mysterious ways. He warns about crooked snake oil salesmen. Then sends one to test the integrity of US Christians and they go for it.

[billvon 2,400]

From the script:

===========
Narrator: The people were ready to believe. Like sheep they ran to the slaughterhouse. And waiting for them was the high priest of fraud.

Trump: I am the only one. Trust me. I can build a wall around your homes that nothing will penetrate.

Townperson: What do we do? How can we save ourselves?

Trump: You ask how do you build that wall. You ask, and I’m here to tell you.
============

[RonD1120 58]

billvon

>the Holy Spirit brought weapons back into my awareness . . . we are being guided in
>preparation

God brought you to guns and told you to prepare?

I have a very strong feeling that if you had a neighbor who was collecting an arsenal and told you "Allah told me to prepare to take action" you'd call the cops.

You can count on that.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,400]

RonD1120

***>the Holy Spirit brought weapons back into my awareness . . . we are being guided in
>preparation

God brought you to guns and told you to prepare?

I have a very strong feeling that if you had a neighbor who was collecting an arsenal and told you "Allah told me to prepare to take action" you'd call the cops.

You can count on that.
Perhaps reflect on Luke 6:42 in that case.

[RonD1120 58]

billvon

******>the Holy Spirit brought weapons back into my awareness . . . we are being guided in
>preparation

God brought you to guns and told you to prepare?

I have a very strong feeling that if you had a neighbor who was collecting an arsenal and told you "Allah told me to prepare to take action" you'd call the cops.

You can count on that.
Perhaps reflect on Luke 6:42 in that case.

New York 9:11
Benghazi 9:11-12

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Phil1111 911]

RonD1120

*********>the Holy Spirit brought weapons back into my awareness . . . we are being guided in
>preparation

God brought you to guns and told you to prepare?

I have a very strong feeling that if you had a neighbor who was collecting an arsenal and told you "Allah told me to prepare to take action" you'd call the cops.

You can count on that.
Perhaps reflect on Luke 6:42 in that case.

New York 9:11
Benghazi 9:11-12

I have to acknowledge, concede and bow down. Both of you are getting quite good at all this.

You are both ready for the UK parliament.

[billvon 2,400]

>New York 9:11
>Benghazi 9:11-12

So those are more important than the word of Jesus?

OK. In that case consider these:

Urban II
Darwin Torres
Jeremy Christian
Adam Puritan
Stanley Majors
Oscar Morel
Jeffrey Caylor

If the list of names confuse you, reflect on Matthew 5:38-40 and Matthew 22:39.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quote

Benghazi 9:11-12

Like your president says: they knew what they signed up for.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

RonD1120

*********>the Holy Spirit brought weapons back into my awareness . . . we are being guided in
>preparation

God brought you to guns and told you to prepare?

I have a very strong feeling that if you had a neighbor who was collecting an arsenal and told you "Allah told me to prepare to take action" you'd call the cops.

You can count on that.
Perhaps reflect on Luke 6:42 in that case.

New York 9:11
Benghazi 9:11-12

So your fear, bigotry and hate triumph over the "Word of God."

Why am I not terribly surprised.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[TriGirl 268]

airdvr

In 2000, the Department of Homeland Security built a wall in the Tucson, Arizona, sector. Over 15 years, border apprehensions from CBP dropped by 90 percent. In 2005, DHS built a wall in Yuma, Arizona. There, border apprehensions dropped 95 percent over nine years, according to CBP data. These are just a couple of places where we’ve built a wall and the wall has worked.

I was stationed at Yuma for a few years. The guys working security of the base fence line to the south said they sometimes would get border crossers come up to the ammo depot at night and ask if it was the gate to America (lights were bright in the dark desert). So, a reason to put something at Yuma (maybe 15 miles worth) and Tucson (another 20-ish miles?) is that it is pretty obvious there is civilization there. Even the very tiny towns between the two along the border are not obvious enough to attract someone from several miles away. And once you've been stumbling through unforgiving desert for a week or more, you tend to gravitate toward the first sign of life you notice.

Quote

To my way of thinking that's alot of people. I'm thinking between ports of entry is other than a border checkpoint. Would a wall stop it? Probably not. Would it slow it down? Probably. Do I have a problem with almost 400,000 people crossing the border illegally each year? I don't know. Tell me why I shouldn't.

Between those towns at the extreme west and the easternmost areas of Arizona, you also have preserve land. My first few weeks on the job at Yuma I had to deal with the discovery of 26 corpses in the Cabeza Prieta national wildlife refuge. They were people trying to cross unnoticed through the desert. Not many at all make it through there alive,* and those who do, as you cited, are pretty easily apprehended. This protected area and others like it in the southwest are another reason not to destroy the land with a redundant wall.

*Story tangent: We (military) have aerial training rights in the airspace above the preserve, so when news got out about the deaths, I got a call from a news producer in NY who wanted to know "what kind of military range is it? Is it a bombing range?" When I told her it was a wildlife refuge, home to dozens of endangered species of critters and plants, that we not only could not violate but were committed to protecting, she sounded almost disappointed, and said if they had any more questions, I'd get a call from the LA office. She was hoping she had the next Vieques story.

*second tangent: the desert is so very unforgiving that even experienced sportsmen who know the area and the land fall victim. A colleague just lost his son to the Arizona desert. Former SF, spent years camping and hiking in this area. He made one (at the time) minor mistake, and it cost him the ability to get back to his vehicle and water in time. His body was found about a quarter mile from his truck as he tried to get back.

Bottom line: it is not as easy as it might sound to get across the south Arizona desert to sneak into the U.S. We do have physical barriers in places it has been shown to help, but a wall from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico is wasteful, expensive, destructive and more than overkill for any it may possibly stop from coming. We spend much less on the salaries and equipment of those who apprehend anyone who does make it through.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[SkyDekker 1,122]

US is spending $12 billion to help out farmers hurt by trade war. (some of which going to foreign held companies)

Let up on some of that stupidity and you have your $5 billion.

[Phil1111 911]

Trump Said 'If There's a Concrete Wall in Front of You, Go Around It' in a 2004 Speech and People Are Starting to Notice
http://time.com/5499234/trump-2004-wall-speech/


trump tells how to bypass walls at 12:43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=MQqjSPsvA0E

Even in 2004 every second statement he makes is a lie.

[Stumpy 256]

SkyDekker

US is spending $12 billion to help out farmers hurt by trade war. (some of which going to foreign held companies)

Let up on some of that stupidity and you have your $5 billion.

Lots of places they could find 5 Billion. A tiny drop out of the defence bucket for example. Still shouldn't build a wall with it though!

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[RonD1120 58]

billvon

>New York 9:11
>Benghazi 9:11-12

So those are more important than the word of Jesus?

OK. In that case consider these:

Urban II: Catholic Pope w/vision for his time
Darwin Torres: [Illegal immigrant] build the wall
Jeremy Christian: mentally ill
Adam Puritan (Purinton): mentally ill
Stanley Majors: mentally ill
Oscar Morel: mentally ill
Jeffrey Caylor: Dr in Foley AL ???

If the list of names confuse you, reflect on Matthew 5:38-40 and Matthew 22:39.

I am not a Roman Catholic and do not know any of these individuals.

Applicable scripture until hypothetical Muslim neighbor starts building an arsenal and giving glory to Allah (Satan). Then I notify law enforcement.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

SkyDekker

Quote

Benghazi 9:11-12

Like your president says: they knew what they signed up for.

They did not expect to be abandoned and sacrificed as a political cover-up.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

wolfriverjoe

************>the Holy Spirit brought weapons back into my awareness . . . we are being guided in
>preparation

God brought you to guns and told you to prepare?

I have a very strong feeling that if you had a neighbor who was collecting an arsenal and told you "Allah told me to prepare to take action" you'd call the cops.

You can count on that.
Perhaps reflect on Luke 6:42 in that case.

New York 9:11
Benghazi 9:11-12

So your fear, bigotry and hate triumph over the "Word of God."

Why am I not terribly surprised.

Because you do not understand the Word of God.

First, accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God who died for your sin and let the Holy Spirit reveal truth to you.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.