BIGUN 1,065 #1 November 17, 2018 I've got a surgery coming up in three weeks. As such, I always take the "Deployment to Heaven" documents out of the bank safety deposit box and re-review the Last Will, Living Will, Advanced Directives, Final Instructions, etc. I am an organ donor (for Transplant only) and wish to be cremated (~$1,000). I know there's a serious transplant shortfall and came up with the following thought: What if a hospital offered a paid cremation in exchange for becoming an organ donor. Let's be honest; most people don't have their final affairs in order. I "think" someone gets charged for those organs on the back side of the transplant. Why shouldn't the donor be entitled to some type of remuneration? Would that increase the number of donors? The hospitals could get with the local cremation society and develop a vendor/partner relationship. The patient signs the organ donor card and the hopital pays for the cremation. Thoughts on any legal or ethical concerns with this idea?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,052 #2 November 17, 2018 Hi Keith, QuoteThoughts on any legal or ethical concerns with this idea? The legal aspects I will leave to others. The ethical aspects are way too subjective. Back in the 60's ( I think ), when Oregon came out with your being able to list yourself as a donor on your Driver's License, I did it immediately. IMO I doubt that money would convince very many people. You either believe in it or you do not. I wish it were like some other places in the world where you have to specify if you do not want your organs harvested. Don't specify; they are up for grabs. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,065 #3 November 17, 2018 Jerry, QuoteI wish it were like some other places in the world where you have to specify if you do not want your organs harvested. Don't specify; they are up for grabs. That would be good, but I don't "think" we can do that in the US. I don't know... I'm guessing some one/group would have some religious opposition to it and wind up suing the hospital.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisD2.0 2 #4 November 17, 2018 BIGUNI've got a surgery coming up in three weeks. As such, I always take the "Deployment to Heaven" documents out of the bank safety deposit box and re-review the Last Will, Living Will, Advanced Directives, Final Instructions, etc. I am an organ donor (for Transplant only) and wish to be cremated (~$1,000). I know there's a serious transplant shortfall and came up with the following thought: What if a hospital offered a paid cremation in exchange for becoming an organ donor. Let's be honest; most people don't have their final affairs in order. I "think" someone gets charged for those organs on the back side of the transplant. Why shouldn't the donor be entitled to some type of remuneration? Would that increase the number of donors? The hospitals could get with the local cremation society and develop a vendor/partner relationship. The patient signs the organ donor card and the hopital pays for the cremation. Thoughts on any legal or ethical concerns with this idea? It's a great idea. But already in place and for many years now, the medical community can not even suggest or I suspect even speak about this subject because of the numerous laws already in place. The Genevivive Bujold Coma movie aside. The conflict of interest this caused was intense when this subject came up big time in the 70s' and 80s'. Now if yo want to speak to the Russians and Indians,...you might get somewhere with that???? Hope everything works out ok with the surgery.Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide. He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iago 8 #5 November 18, 2018 I can't think of any. Your organs should be part of your estate. Even if you register as a voluntary donor the hospital is still going to try and get a family sign off before they harvest. Imagine the grieving family crying their eyes out in the consultation room when the father is killed in an accident. 'No you can't have our daddy's kidneys. He's going to be be buried a whole man. Boo hoo hoo.' Doc: we'lll give you twenty thousand dollars for them. Family:. Would you like his eyes, too?Confirmed cynical sarcastic bastard since 2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,052 #6 November 18, 2018 Hi Iago, QuoteYour organs should be part of your estate. If only. In Oregon, even though I have the 'D' on my driver's license, my family can override my wishes. I wish that it was not that way, but it is. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lippy 773 #7 November 18, 2018 Freakonomics Radio did a podcast episode a while back about a guy essentially established a marketplace for transplant organs (and won a Nobel for his efforts). For anybody interested in the topic it's a worthwhile listen: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/make-match-rebroadcast/I got nuthin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iago 8 #8 November 18, 2018 lippyFreakonomics Radio did a podcast episode a while back about a guy essentially established a marketplace for transplant organs (and won a Nobel for his efforts). For anybody interested in the topic it's a worthwhile listen: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/make-match-rebroadcast/ Oh, donor organs are definitely not free. When I was working in EMR I would see remits on accounts that had transplants. One line item. Liver, transplant. $34,285. (Or something like that)Confirmed cynical sarcastic bastard since 2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #9 November 18, 2018 Just curious, why specify transplant only? Your body could be a valuable part of scientific research. Check out this Radio Lab episode about donation for science. https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/grays-donation Full disclosure, the lady featured in the episode happens to be my stepsister. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,065 #10 November 18, 2018 DanGJust curious, why specify transplant only? Your body could be a valuable part of scientific research. Check out this Radio Lab episode about donation for science. https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/grays-donation Full disclosure, the lady featured in the episode happens to be my stepsister. I know three people who have received transplants. My liver can save 8 lives alone. It is my last wish to directly help those who need my organs.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,065 #11 November 18, 2018 JerryBaumchenHi Iago, QuoteYour organs should be part of your estate. If only. In Oregon, even though I have the 'D' on my driver's license, my family can override my wishes. I wish that it was not that way, but it is. Jerry Baumchen Jerry, I "believe" that's technically true in most states. Or, the family ditches the DL. Might I suggest you fill out an advance directive and seek a power of attorney to carry out your wishes. The family cannot overrule a PoA & AD. https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/financial-legal/free-printable-advance-directives/ (this is actually on here for anyone who wishes to use it)Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,065 #12 November 18, 2018 IagoI can't think of any. Your organs should be part of your estate. Even if you register as a voluntary donor the hospital is still going to try and get a family sign off before they harvest. Imagine the grieving family crying their eyes out in the consultation room when the father is killed in an accident. 'No you can't have our daddy's kidneys. He's going to be be buried a whole man. Boo hoo hoo.' Doc: we'llgive you twenty thousand dollars for them. Family:. Would you like his eyes, too? Exactly, my point except - would we see an increase in donations if it went: Doc: We'll cremate his remains and provide you with the urn to spread his ashes at his favorite spot. Family:. Would you like his eyes, too?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMK 3 #13 November 18, 2018 In the UK we're going to a "opt out" system in 2020; whereby everyone is by default an organ donor - if you disagree; you remove your name. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45056780 This is what I've always wanted to be in place. I think choosing to have a much needed organ buried to rot (when it could save a life) is the ultimate in selfishness."Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,065 #14 November 18, 2018 Quote I think choosing to have a much needed organ buried to rot (when it could save a life) is the ultimate in selfishness. Needless to say, I agree. And, given that most people don't have their affairs in order; they've probably not given it much thought. Shit. Did I just agree with something the United Kingdom is doing? Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,052 #15 November 18, 2018 Hi Keith, Quoteyou fill out an advance directive and seek a power of attorney Completed years ago. The POA gives my two children authority. Now, they just need to follow thru; maybe yes/maybe no. They both know how I feel about this. Jerry Baumchen PS) Good on the UK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,136 #16 November 18, 2018 I have a fairly close relative who does not want to be a donor. It’s not religious, I really don’t know what drives it. We’ve discussed it, but I really don’t understand the rationale. It bothers me, because if I’m around when the time comes, I may be involved in the family discussion. And I’ll feel honor bound to respect their wishes. And if the tables are turned, they’ll respect mine. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iago 8 #17 November 18, 2018 wmw999I have a fairly close relative who does not want to be a donor. It’s not religious, I really don’t know what drives it. We’ve discussed it, but I really don’t understand the rationale. It bothers me, because if I’m around when the time comes, I may be involved in the family discussion. And I’ll feel honor bound to respect their wishes. And if the tables are turned, they’ll respect mine. Wendy P. I can make a pretty good guess that it has to do with being cut open when they're still alive. That's a major fear a lot of people have when it comes to being g a donor. I worked with a guy years ago who refused to sign up. When he dies he wants to be left there until he starts to stink just be sure.Confirmed cynical sarcastic bastard since 2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 61 #18 November 19, 2018 We've had the opt out System in Wales since 2015 and it's slowly starting to increase the number of donor organs available. In addition to the change in the law there's also a regular, ongoing advertising campaign encouraging people to discuss their wishes with their friends and relatives.Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 4 #19 November 19, 2018 Well my dad passed away earlier this year. And he had made araigngments with a company that would pick him up.. Harvest any organs or tisue for research, then cremate and spread his ashes at sea. Free of charge. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,065 #20 November 19, 2018 My condolences about your dad. Sounds like someone made some good decisions.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtrusBatleth 0 #21 November 19, 2018 RMK I think choosing to have a much needed organ buried to rot (when it could save a life) is the ultimate in selfishness. In some peoples defense, it's not that they specifically want to "stick it to everyone still alive" when they go. The problem is, for most organs to be viable they need to be harvested when the donor is still alive. That requires the doctor to make a judgment call on whether the donor's death is inevitable. Doctors can and have made an incorrect call in that regard. Almost always with the best of intentions, but let's not ignore that some doctors may have a conflict of interest or ulterior motives that influence making a premature call. Point is, many people are not comfortable with trusting their lives to a judgment call. In my opinion defaulting people to be donors is not informed consent, which seems warranted in this case.Max Peck What's the point of having top secret code names, fellas, if we ain't gonna use 'em? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,417 #22 November 19, 2018 >Point is, many people are not comfortable with trusting their lives to a judgment call. That's fine - they should not have to. >In my opinion defaulting people to be donors is not informed consent, which seems >warranted in this case. So have a requirement that a doctor tell them at some point "oh by the way organ donation is the default, you can opt out on line." If they don't want to donate they don't have to. If they want to they can. If they don't care, then other lives can still be saved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,065 #23 November 19, 2018 Brain dead or Cardiac dead is not a judgement call. https://www.core.org/understanding-donation/donation-process/Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #24 November 20, 2018 BIGUNBrain dead or Cardiac dead is not a judgement call. https://www.core.org/understanding-donation/donation-process/ Don't tell the 'true believers' that. They believe a 'little bit' different. It's amazing how much they will lie to push their dogma."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,065 #25 November 20, 2018 Morning, Joe. Well, I/we can "believe" but we can't believe in the rants of one (or a few) who belong to a particular sect and take it as "gospel." I hadn't heard of this Dr. Byrne, so I did some research. Evidently, he's been on this rant for about 60 years now. He wouldn't even listen to his bishop: Quote Bishop Pivarunas: b) When this matter was first raised, Dr. . . . , M.D., F.A.C.S., was primarily consulted. He practiced thoracic and cardiovascular surgery for approximately 30 years in both an academic (medical school) and private practice setting. Dr. . . . had no doubt that brain death was true death and that the transplanting of organs was moral. Bishop Pivarunas: d) I also consulted my brother, Dr. . . , who is director of the residency program/chairman of the department of OB/GYN at the . . . Hospital in . . . He is also the regional director for the . . . Medical Association (Region . . . ) and the recipient of the . . . Award for outstanding service in the pro-life movement. He reassured me that the vast majority of pro-life doctors hold to the concept of brain death as true death. He knows Dr. Paul Byrne and has said that he is part of a very small minority of doctors who do not accept the brain death criteria. SOURCE: http://www.christorchaos.com/Dr.PaulByrnesRefutation_000.html Next thing you know; someone will be telling me that Wombat Poop ain't cubed. On a more personal note; from personal experience; Theology and Science can co-exist.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites