Nazi's are back!

[Phil1111 911]

wolfriverjoe

***
And once again the real threat to society as a whole is missed. Do you honestly think racial equality has anything to do with KKK or Nazis or BLM...or passing laws or removing monuments? While that might make you feel good it doesn't solve anything.

Black people (mostly) are up in arms about the Nazis and the KKK. White people (mostly) are up in arms about BLM and such. None of those organizations poses any real threat to society but they miss the point completely. You are so wrong if you think the small group of Nazis and KKK represent the majority of white people, or BLM represents the majority of black people.

Why do I even bother?

Actually, passing laws does have an effect. It doesn't stop racism, but it reduces it. It provides an incentive to not do it and it provides a recourse to those who are discriminated against.

Standing up to the Nazis and KKK has an effect too. It's not just black people doing it either (not even "mostly"). It drives them underground. It provides consequences for the action. How many of those idiots are facing job loss and other consequences after their faces showed up all over the internet?

BLM brought the killing of blacks by police to the front of the nation's conscience. Honestly, I don't know that many white people who are "up in arms" about BLM, outside of the racists. Some are overt, but most are 'closeted racists', that is they hold opinions and positions that are pretty clearly racist to anyone paying attention, but deny it up and down. ]
To put it another way, not everyone who criticized Obama is/was racist. But most of the "Birthers" were. Most of the ones who claimed he was a "secret Muslim" were.

And removing the statues won't "cure" racism. But removing statues that represent hatred and bigotry (both in the history of the person the statue is of and in the history of the reasons behind the placement of them) will keep it from being shoved in the faces of everyone who despises it.
Both black and white.

Keep in mind that there are a lot of white people who think that equal rights are important for everyone (there are a lot of men in favor of equal rights for women, too).
Do remember that the three poll workers killed in Mississippi (as depicted in the movie "Mississippi Burning") were white.

White people don't give a rats ass about BLM. I hazard a guess that Blacks look at the clan and Neo-Nazis as some white clowns, with racist ideas who look at Jews, Indians, Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, all in the same boat as them. Therefor feeling relatively safe. Oh! and most whites as well. Well non republican ones anyway!

The threat to society is a racist President with all the authority that his office brings to the equation.

[normiss 622]

Wow.
Far-fetched and incorrect assumptions.

[Phil1111 911]

normiss

Wow.
Far-fetched and incorrect assumptions.

Authored just for you.

The Showdown Over How We Define Fringe Views in America
AUG. 21, 2017

Today in the United States, sweeping majorities of the public say they support fair housing laws and the ideal of integrated schools. Nine in 10 say they would back a black candidate for president from their own party, and the same say they approve of marriage between blacks and whites. That last issue has undergone one of the greatest transformations in polling over the last 50 years. In 1960, just 4 percent of Americans approved....

More than a triumph over private prejudice, these numbers reflect changing social norms. The country hasn’t extinguished racism. But society — universities, employers, cultural institutions, the military — has made clearer over time that people who hold racist views had better nurse them off in the corner...

That fight is being waged by opposing protesters across the country and by pundits daily on TV. ...

“They are explicitly trying to do that,” Tina Fetner, a sociologist at McMaster University in Ontario, said of members of white supremacist groups. Until recently, they were ignored. But now the president is repeating their memes and the distorted versions of history that prop up their views, she said. As a result, the news media is broadly covering them, too...

“This is exactly the process of how social change happens,” Ms. Fetner said. “It’s not because all of a sudden there is more racism now than there was a few weeks ago. It’s that the absolute condemnation of those most abhorrent views is crumbling away because the president isn’t fulfilling that role.”..

[ Hence the danger of trump and those in similar positions of power be it federally or state governments]

Social scientists know that political leaders and institutions play an essential role in establishing norms. The American Psychological Association began to shift people’s views in the 1970s when the group declared that homosexuality is not a mental illness. The United States military did the same with racial equality when it began to desegregate in the late 1940s.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/upshot/the-showdown-over-how-we-define-fringe-views-in-america.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

[normiss 622]

So white people do give a rats ass.

The opinion piece doesn't support your previous comments like I said. Thanks.

[DJL 232]

airdvr

If that's the way you want to interpret it, so be it. You know what I meant. So did everyone else.

I'm not interpreting it that way, that's what you said. Now let's move on to the next thing, what the article was ACTUALLY saying is that people who are murdered have a higher tendency to be murdered by people within their own community, for black people it's 90%, for white people it's 81%.

Does it have anything to with Civil Rights that people are more likely to be killed by people within their own community? Civil Rights has nothing to do with who within your community is going to murder you. I DOES have something to do with how you're going to be treated in a traffic stop, how you're going to be treated at an interview for a job or mortgage.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Phil1111 911]

normiss

So white people do give a rats ass.

The opinion piece doesn't support your previous comments like I said. Thanks.

I should have been much more precise in that statement. I said they don't care about BLM, the movement. On the face of it it would suggest that whites don't care about blacks.

I should have been more direct in the intent that those on this forum that suggest that its a racist movement with political objectives. Ideas that arise, from the likes of Breitbart, etc.

IMO whites do care about Black lives, about police brutality against Blacks. There is a political overtone to BLM the movement. But its not anti-white and not racist itself. Its to change police and public perceptions about a anti-black bias in police actions.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Lawndarter 3]

wolfriverjoe

Honestly, I don't know that many white people who are "up in arms" about BLM, outside of the racists. Some are overt, but most are 'closeted racists', that is they hold opinions and positions that are pretty clearly racist to anyone paying attention, but deny it up and down. To put it another way, not everyone who criticized Obama is/was racist. But most of the "Birthers" were. Most of the ones who claimed he was a "secret Muslim" were.

Bingo!

I've never met someone "up in arms" about BLM who was not (a) grievously uninformed about it or (b) overtly or subtlely revealing some level of prejudice. I've definitely seen some great legitimate criticism of some BLM "chapters" or "local leaders", for example in my home of Toronto where they got into a huge and utterly pointless spat with the organizers of Toronto's massive Pride festivities about the police being involved. There are also plenty of people who've done stupid shit (like chanting for violence against cops) while claiming the BLM mantle, but nothing in that movement's origins or stated goals endorses that. I'm an average white guy, and I think they have a pretty solid point about problems with policing, and some well spoken people looking to help solve that. I'm far, far more bothered by the KKK, neo-Nazis, all the crazies emboldened by the lunatic in the White House. I'm further concerned about the spread of that nonsense into Canada.

wolfriverjoe

And removing the statues won't "cure" racism. But removing statues that represent hatred and bigotry (both in the history of the person the statue is of and in the history of the reasons behind the placement of them) will keep it from being shoved in the faces of everyone who despises it. Both black and white.

Those statues were raised for odious purposes and commemorate men and ideas which have no nobility or merit.

wolfriverjoe

Keep in mind that there are a lot of white people who think that equal rights are important for everyone (there are a lot of men in favor of equal rights for women, too).
Do remember that the three poll workers killed in Mississippi (as depicted in the movie "Mississippi Burning") were white.

When you start to understand that whole "white privilege" thing, and to realize that this whole "standing up for the rights of those who don't have it" thing isn't zero-sum, it's not hard to understand and support their cause.

[DirtyChai 0]

Phil1111

IMO whites do care about Black lives, about police brutality against Blacks. There is a political overtone to BLM the movement. But its not anti-white and not racist itself. Its to change police and public perceptions about a anti-black bias in police actions.

I give credit to BLM for bringing awareness to the issues of police brutality, excessive force and the killing of unarmed suspects, but the sole focus on perceived racism does nothing to address the real problem.

The fact is that there has been a significant increase in unarmed shooting deaths by police in the last few years, regardless of race.

Why?

What are we going to do about it?

Let's say that we deal with the fraction of instances that may actually be racist. Ok, great, then what? The problem of increased unarmed shootings still exists. What are we going to do about it?

The recurring theme seems to be that black people want to be treated just like white people. Well guess what, shit happens to white people too - especially poor white people living in the inner city, because that's just where shit's mores likely to happen.

We keep comparing blacks to whites, but you have to understand that the majority of whites are dispersed throughout the entire country, many of which live in less populated areas with fewer police. The majority of blacks live densely populated in areas where there are more police - do the math. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Do you really think things would be any different if a million unemployed gun-toting rednecks were crammed together with thousands of cops?

The solution to the problem is to address our violent culture and start allowing blacks to disperse throughout the entire country just like the white folks - True integration. We are still a severely segregated country, and that's wherein lies the racism. . .

[RonD1120 58]

DirtyChai

***
IMO whites do care about Black lives, about police brutality against Blacks. There is a political overtone to BLM the movement. But its not anti-white and not racist itself. Its to change police and public perceptions about a anti-black bias in police actions.

I give credit to BLM for bringing awareness to the issues of police brutality, excessive force and the killing of unarmed suspects, but the sole focus on perceived racism does nothing to address the real problem.

The fact is that there has been a significant increase in unarmed shooting deaths by police in the last few years, regardless of race.

Why?

What are we going to do about it?

Let's say that we deal with the fraction of instances that may actually be racist. Ok, great, then what? The problem of increased unarmed shootings still exists. What are we going to do about it?

The recurring theme seems to be that black people want to be treated just like white people. Well guess what, shit happens to white people too - especially poor white people living in the inner city, because that's just where shit's mores likely to happen.

We keep comparing blacks to whites, but you have to understand that the majority of whites are dispersed throughout the entire country, many of which live in less populated areas with fewer police. The majority of blacks live densely populated in areas where there are more police - do the math. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Do you really think things would be any different if a million unemployed gun-toting rednecks were crammed together with thousands of cops?

The solution to the problem is to address our violent culture and start allowing blacks to disperse throughout the entire country just like the white folks - True integration. We are still a severely segregated country, and that's wherein lies the racism. . .

Your insight and understanding of this problem is too adept for the SC.

Black males with some exceptions have extreme difficulty to elevate themselves above the victim mentality.

When I worked with the court ordered drug offenders the blacks always blamed their plight on some aspect of the white society. Blacks who supervised these programs would mentally dominate the clients and try to get them to "man up."

The black women that I worked with were generally Christian, understood the problem and tried to reason with the males.

Sometimes both approaches seemed to work.

Blacks tend to group together and IMO, they tend to pull themselves down instead of pulling themselves up. It is a cultural phenomena.

The only thing I can do is love and respect them individually.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[lippy 773]

Quote

The only thing I can do is love and respect them individually.

Glad you love and respect the individuals, because you seem to make some horribly disrespectful and misguided statements about the overall group.

I got nuthin

[Phil1111 911]

airdvr

***>Since when did violence equal murder?

Murder is violence. The opposite is not true.

>Your post said no one could predict violence.

That was sarcasm. It was inevitable that a mob of white supremacists marching into a town, torches blazing, would bring violence.

Not defending the RWR. Simply pointing out that LWR were pretty violent after the election. 1 crazy radical doesn't represent all of them.

I count one act in a baseball field. Please check with darkbart and advise of all the other violent actions by the left.

Meanwhile nothing about the bombing of the Dar Al-Farooq Islamic Center in Bloomington.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

RonD1120

******
IMO whites do care about Black lives, about police brutality against Blacks. There is a political overtone to BLM the movement. But its not anti-white and not racist itself. Its to change police and public perceptions about a anti-black bias in police actions.

I give credit to BLM for bringing awareness to the issues of police brutality, excessive force and the killing of unarmed suspects, but the sole focus on perceived racism does nothing to address the real problem.

The fact is that there has been a significant increase in unarmed shooting deaths by police in the last few years, regardless of race.

Why?

What are we going to do about it?

Let's say that we deal with the fraction of instances that may actually be racist. Ok, great, then what? The problem of increased unarmed shootings still exists. What are we going to do about it?

The recurring theme seems to be that black people want to be treated just like white people. Well guess what, shit happens to white people too - especially poor white people living in the inner city, because that's just where shit's mores likely to happen.

We keep comparing blacks to whites, but you have to understand that the majority of whites are dispersed throughout the entire country, many of which live in less populated areas with fewer police. The majority of blacks live densely populated in areas where there are more police - do the math. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Do you really think things would be any different if a million unemployed gun-toting rednecks were crammed together with thousands of cops?

The solution to the problem is to address our violent culture and start allowing blacks to disperse throughout the entire country just like the white folks - True integration. We are still a severely segregated country, and that's wherein lies the racism. . .

Your insight and understanding of this problem is too adept for the SC.

Black males with some exceptions have extreme difficulty to elevate themselves above the victim mentality.

When I worked with the court ordered drug offenders the blacks always blamed their plight on some aspect of the white society. Blacks who supervised these programs would mentally dominate the clients and try to get them to "man up."

The black women that I worked with were generally Christian, understood the problem and tried to reason with the males.

Sometimes both approaches seemed to work.

Blacks tend to group together and IMO, they tend to pull themselves down instead of pulling themselves up. It is a cultural phenomena.

The only thing I can do is love and respect them individually.

I have a beautiful bottle of wine reserved for the day I don't see this bullshit posted by you anymore.

[wmw999 2,123]

Good post. I disagree that black-vs-white is unimportant, because inner cities have been black for discriminatory reasons (ie it's harder to rent or buy elsewhere due to discrimination). But if the same problem applies to both groups (maybe too much of an us-vs-them mentality on the part of police, maybe just too much emphasis on power, probably something entirely different), then fixing it for both addresses that issue.

Another thing I read recently (maybe here, maybe not) was that the civil right movement made it socially unacceptable to say blatantly racist things in far more places; that works in the long run for lots of people. And kind of like flat-earthers, they won't die out completely, but there are fewer.

One negative thing of the internet is giving all those goobers the ability to communicate with and reinforce each other. Used to be they all sat in one section of the bar; now the bar's bigger.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[gowlerk 1,914]

Quote

Your insight and understanding of this problem is too adept for the SC.

Black males with some exceptions have extreme difficulty to elevate themselves above the victim mentality.

When I worked with the court ordered drug offenders the blacks always blamed their plight on some aspect of the white society. Blacks who supervised these programs would mentally dominate the clients and try to get them to "man up."

The black women that I worked with were generally Christian, understood the problem and tried to reason with the males.

Sometimes both approaches seemed to work.

Blacks tend to group together and IMO, they tend to pull themselves down instead of pulling themselves up. It is a cultural phenomena.

I am going to accept that you observed this in your life experience. However I question the objectivity of just how often it was the case. And I also wonder just what the white drug offenders tended to blame their problems on.

The toxic combination of a cycle of poverty reinforced by a culture of suppression through racial preferences is a problem in many places. The roles of victim and perpetrator are usually intertwined. As is the role of police and the court system, both protectors and suppressors, caught in the middle. There are no easy answers to these societal ills. In my home city this set of circumstances applies to a portion of the native population in much the same way.

Quote

The only thing I can do is love and respect them individually.

If you feel that is the only thing you can do, then it is at least a good start.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[RonD1120 58]

SkyDekker

I have a beautiful bottle of wine reserved for the day I don't see this bullshit posted by you anymore.

Well, my docs have given me some moderately negative news and a treatment regimen that I am going to refuse. So, you may not have long to wait. However, I am claiming my healing from Christ based on the Word of God and I am following a therapy plan guided by the Holy Spirit. You better just pull that cork this weekend.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[yoink 321]

I hope you recover, Ron. I really do.

Isn't there room for a science AND faith based treatment regime?

[gowlerk 1,914]

Quote

Isn't there room for a science AND faith based treatment regime?

Even if there is such room there can be more than one reason to decide to reject a treatment plan. Sometimes the treatment can never be a cure and can be worse than the disease in the eyes of the patient.

Whatever ails you Ron, I hope you find a way to cope and possibly even recover. Keep us posted as much as you feel it is appropriate for you to do so.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[RonD1120 58]

gowlerk

Quote

Your insight and understanding of this problem is too adept for the SC.

Black males with some exceptions have extreme difficulty to elevate themselves above the victim mentality.

When I worked with the court ordered drug offenders the blacks always blamed their plight on some aspect of the white society. Blacks who supervised these programs would mentally dominate the clients and try to get them to "man up."

The black women that I worked with were generally Christian, understood the problem and tried to reason with the males.

Sometimes both approaches seemed to work.

Blacks tend to group together and IMO, they tend to pull themselves down instead of pulling themselves up. It is a cultural phenomena.

I am going to accept that you observed this in your life experience. However I question the objectivity of just how often it was the case. And I also wonder just what the white drug offenders tended to blame their problems on.

The toxic combination of a cycle of poverty reinforced by a culture of suppression through racial preferences is a problem in many places. The roles of victim and perpetrator are usually intertwined. As is the role of police and the court system, both protectors and suppressors, caught in the middle. There are no easy answers to these societal ills. In my home city this set of circumstances applies to a portion of the native population in much the same way.

***The only thing I can do is love and respect them individually.

If you feel that is the only thing you can do, then it is at least a good start.

White males tend to take responsibility and admit they messed up. IMO, that usually meant they were sorry they got caught.

One of the main indicators of a lying drug user is that their lips move. In my experience the white male offenders tended to fall in line with the program requirements faster and they professed the desire to stay clean and sober earlier in treatment. In the end all races of offenders tend to graduate and go on to supervised probation.

+++

Thanks for the well wishes. And you are right, the potential side effects of the treatment therapy are not acceptable.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,400]

Other countries are seeing this as a problem as well.
=====================================
UN racism committee issues 'warning' over US tensions

AFP
August 23, 2017

Geneva (AFP) - A UN committee tasked with combatting racism has issued a formal "early warning" over conditions in the United States, a rare move often used to signal the potential of a looming civil conflict.

The United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination said it had invoked its "early warning and urgent action procedure" because of the proliferation of racist demonstrations in the US.

It specifically noted the unrest in Charlottesville, Virginia, in which a woman was killed after an avowed white supremacist ploughed his car into a group of anti-racism counterprotestors.

The racism committee, part of the UN human rights office, can issue a formal early warning to help prevent "existing problems from escalating into conflict" or to "prevent a resumption of conflict where it has previously occurred", according to the rights office website.

President Donald Trump has been widely criticised for his response to the Charlottesville clashes, after he said "both sides" were to blame for the violence.

The UN committee urged Washington, "as well as high-level politicians and public officials, to unequivocally and unconditionally reject and condemn racist hate speech", without mentioning Trump by name.
=======================

[billvon 2,400]

billvon

A black 20 year old (Deandre Harris) was beaten with poles by several white supremacists at the rally. He ended up with a broken wrist, broken teeth and 20 staples in his head - but is going to be OK, mainly because some passerbys saw the fight, stepped in to stop it, and called an ambulance. The white supremacists got away.

Update - there has been a warrant issued in this case! It is, of course, for Deandre Harris's arrest. A white supremacist claimed that he was injured by Harris, who needed 20 staples in his head after being beaten by a white supremacist. Another white supremacist, Hunter Wallace, gloated over the charges. "Did you hear the news? DeAndre Harris is going to jail. Yeah, he is being booked this morning. His whole story was another race hoax."

[normiss 622]

It appears he's being charged for being black and inciting the attacks.
That's like charging the victim in a rape...with rape.

I'm overly disappointed that racism is now cool and accepted.

[normiss 622]

After the $5000 retainer....

[ryoder 1,386]

WaPo: Charge upgraded to first-degree murder for driver accused of ramming Charlottesville crowd

Take the first link on the page (to bypass paywall): https://www.google.com/search?ei=32IzWtSUJs_QjwOG7qSQAQ&q=site%3Awashingtonpost.com+Driver+accused+of+plowing+into+Charlottesville+crowd%2C+killing+Heather+Heyer&oq=site%3Awashingtonpost.com+Driver+accused+of+plowing+into+Charlottesville+crowd%2C+killing+Heather+Heyer

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

From the article:

Quote

...video showing the Dodge backing up rapidly before it accelerated forward toward the crowd is evidence that the crash was intentional...

So much for the claim that he was attacked, his car surrounded by protesters and he was "just trying to get away."

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

Guilty on all counts.

Link to NPR report:
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/07/674672922/james-alex-fields-unite-the-right-protester-who-killed-heather-heyer-found-guilt

If you don't like NPR, there are a zillion other outlets reporting the same thing.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo