Russiagate

[DJL 232]

12 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Laundering money for the Russian mob.

Makes you wonder how ass-raped Trump would have been had he actually attempted to make money from a hotel in Russia using Russian labor, Russian materials and with Russian oversight.  The Presidency saved his business.

[rushmc 18]

It just keeps falling apart and then the Dems and it's complicit media make up something else, that many here love to parrot.

Now this....

 

https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2019/03/17/cnn-ireport-was-source-for-unverified-claims-in-russia-dossier-report/

 

[kallend 1,625]

38 minutes ago, rushmc said:

. . . . ..breitbart. . . .

Very droll.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Very droll.

Oh please Professor. 

Breitbart isn't 'complicit media'. 

It's independent and accurate journalism.
The fact that Steve Bannon was part of the Trump gang is completely irrelevant.

 

God, we really need a sarcasm font.

[Coreece 190]

12 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

God, we really need a sarcasm font.

Nah, most people in this forum are so one-sided that it's not really necessary.  Besides, identifying sarcasm is the fun part.

[rushmc 18]

Now knowing that this whole investigation was a fraud a fake an attack I got to wonder how many of you think you're going to get out of being led by your nose rings by the media and those feeding the media the information that you suck down the Hook line & sinker

[billvon 2,400]

1 hour ago, rushmc said:

Now knowing that this whole investigation was a fraud a fake an attack  . . .

Given that Manafort just went away for another three years for colluding with Russia to tamper with federal witnesses - your "no collusion" mantra is going to be a hard sell for any intelligent person in the US.  But I have faith that you will keep trying.  Somewhere out there, someone might believe you.

[DJL 232]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

Given that Manafort just went away for another three years for colluding with Russia to tamper with federal witnesses - your "no collusion" mantra is going to be a hard sell for any intelligent person in the US.  But I have faith that you will keep trying.  Somewhere out there, someone might believe you.

That's still a half-yes.  It wasn't a collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government which is the suspicion that launched the investigation.  Either side of the argument could call that moving the goal posts. 

In my eye the most solid collusion was the Trump Tower Meeting, all parties went into that knowing (and have admitted) that it was for the purposes of getting dirt on Hillary and at the behest of the Russian government.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

2 hours ago, DJL said:

That's still a half-yes.  It wasn't a collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government which is the suspicion that launched the investigation.  Either side of the argument could call that moving the goal posts. 

In my eye the most solid collusion was the Trump Tower Meeting, all parties went into that knowing (and have admitted) that it was for the purposes of getting dirt on Hillary and at the behest of the Russian government.

True to a point, but why would the Russian government collude with Manafort to tamper with the witnesses if there wasn't something in the past?

 

I find it very hard to believe they would get involved in this unless they already were. 

[DJL 232]

7 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

True to a point, but why would the Russian government collude with Manafort to tamper with the witnesses if there wasn't something in the past?

I find it very hard to believe they would get involved in this unless they already were. 

As I understand it that witness tampering has to do with his personal finances and lobbying efforts for Russian interests in Ukraine but not for the Trump campaign.  I'd like to say I could more surgically separate the ideas but understand there's the aspect that what's good for Trump is good for Russia and vice versa.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

2 hours ago, DJL said:

As I understand it that witness tampering has to do with his personal finances and lobbying efforts for Russian interests in Ukraine but not for the Trump campaign.  I'd like to say I could more surgically separate the ideas but understand there's the aspect that what's good for Trump is good for Russia and vice versa.

Again, true to a point. 

 

There's a reasonable theoretical argument that Manafort's actions were divorced from the campaign. But that argument needs to be made in a vacuum. 

 

When taken as part of a bigger picture, including (but not limited to) Flynn, Papadopolus, the Trump hotel in Moscow (including giving Putin a multi million dollar condo), the Trump tower meeting, the Wikileaks email dump, all of that; it's much easier to believe that this is all part of Russia's attempts to influence the elections. To get Trump into the WH instead of HRC. 

 

And if Trump was part of it, involved in it, knew about it, then it becomes criminal. 
I am very interested in what Mueller has found.

[rushmc 18]

On 3/18/2019 at 9:53 PM, billvon said:

Given that Manafort just went away for another three years for colluding with Russia to tamper with federal witnesses - your "no collusion" mantra is going to be a hard sell for any intelligent person in the US.  But I have faith that you will keep trying.  Somewhere out there, someone might believe you.

 Manafort went away for representing the Ukraine which is a enemy of Russia. The fact that you believe that shows me how embedded you got your nose up CNN‘s ass 

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

5 minutes ago, rushmc said:

 Manafort went away for representing the Ukraine which is a enemy of Russia. The fact that you believe that shows me how embedded you got your nose up CNN‘s ass 

The fact that you posted this shows how uninformed you are about the whole situation.

Thanks for the laugh.

Helpful hint:

Look up the name Viktor Yanukovych.

[rushmc 18]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

The fact that you posted this shows how uninformed you are about the whole situation.

Thanks for the laugh.

Helpful hint:

Look up the name Viktor Yanukovych.

 I’ve never seen projection at this level. Thank you for the entertainment 

[DJL 232]

12 hours ago, rushmc said:

 Manafort went away for representing the Ukraine which is a enemy of Russia. The fact that you believe that shows me how embedded you got your nose up CNN‘s ass 

You have no idea what's going on.  MANAFORT WAS REPRESENTING PRO RUSSIAN EFFORTS WITHIN UKRAINE.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/24/mueller-investigation-manafort-accused-of-secretly-funding-pro-russia-group

The continuing investigation is whether or not these contacts and groups had continued as a coordinated effort on behalf of the Trump campaign and whether there was a known or unknown connection to the Russian government aka "collusion". This is literally what the collusion accusation is about.

To lay it out again, Manafort has been found guilty of acting as a foreign agent on behalf of Russian interests in Ukraine and related financial wrongdoings. He is under further investigation for Russian collusion in the US election pending the results of Mueller's investigation.

Edited March 21, 2019 by DJL

[BillyVance 34]

What goes around... comes around?

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/435029-as-russia-collusion-fades-ukrainian-plot-to-help-clinton-emerges?amp&__twitter_impression=true

[DJL 232]

6 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

What goes around... comes around?

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/435029-as-russia-collusion-fades-ukrainian-plot-to-help-clinton-emerges?amp&__twitter_impression=true

So you're saying that the Ukrainian government in it's effort against Russian influence within their own government exposed the person who was providing Russian influence within their own government.  Got it.

[jakee 1,256]

3 hours ago, BillyVance said:

What goes around... comes around?

In what way? That story contains absolutely zero suggestion of improper action by Clinton. 

[SkyDekker 1,123]

On 3/19/2019 at 5:38 AM, DJL said:

That's still a half-yes.  It wasn't a collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government which is the suspicion that launched the investigation.  Either side of the argument could call that moving the goal posts. 

In my eye the most solid collusion was the Trump Tower Meeting, all parties went into that knowing (and have admitted) that it was for the purposes of getting dirt on Hillary and at the behest of the Russian government.

Correct. It my just end up being that Trump was a useful idiot in all of this. Blissfully ignorant that those around him were controlling him at the behest of Russia.

That would clearly show there are no problems with US elections, the US electoral system, or the GOP's willingness to sell out. /s

[SkyDekker 1,123]

4 hours ago, DJL said:

So you're saying that the Ukrainian government in it's effort against Russian influence within their own government exposed the person who was providing Russian influence within their own government.  Got it.

He is saying that beyond the headlines the words are a bit too complicated.

[DJL 232]

4 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

He is saying that beyond the headlines the words are a bit too complicated.

To be fair their government is doing some house cleaning on what information was allowed to be released by who and when.  However to say that it qualifies as a coordinated effort towards the HRC campaign is a bit of a stretch.

[kallend 1,625]

What we know already.

David Leonhardt 3/22/2019

Russia interfered in the 2016 election to help Trump. Russian officials hacked the emails of Democratic officials and created a social media campaign designed to hurt Hillary Clinton and help Trump. Trump campaign officials knew of these foreign efforts and encouraged them. The president’s son did so. As did George Papadopoulos, a campaign adviser. And Trump himself publicly urged Russia to hack Clinton’s emails — on the same day Russian hackers tried to breach her private server for the first time. Trump campaign officials attempted to conceal contacts they had with Russians and other foreign officials. Trump and his associates repeatedly lied to the public and to investigators about their more than 100 contacts — including meetings, phone calls and emails — with Russians during the campaign. Among the examples: Michael Flynn, a campaign aide who became Trump’s national security adviser, lied about phone calls he had with the Russian ambassador to the United States. Campaign officials knew in advance about the WikiLeaks email dumps. Before WikiLeaks released stolen Democratic emails, Roger Stone, a longtime Trump associate, told campaign officials it would happen. Trump was secretly pursuing a business venture in Russia and lied about it. During most of the 2016 campaign, Trump associates worked to build a Trump Tower in Moscow, while publicly denying any such business relationship. Trump’s former lawyer, Michael Cohen, lied to Congress about the talks and was sentenced to three years in prison. Trump directed a subordinate to break the law. During the campaign, Trump directed Cohen to pay hush money to women who claimed to have had affairs with Trump. The secret payments violated campaign finance laws. Trump’s campaign was run by criminals. The Mueller investigation has also uncovered separate financial crimes committed by top campaign officials. Both Paul Manafort, the campaign chairman, and Rick Gates, a Manafort protégé, have been indicted on conspiracy and fraud. Others tied to the campaign, including Papadopoulos, have also received prison sentences.

 

[rushmc 18]

Funny stuff John!

 

Meanwhile We get more and more evidence that the Russian investigation was a hoax from the get go.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fbi-clashed-doj-biased-fisa-source-texts-mccabe-page

[kallend 1,625]

1 minute ago, rushmc said:

Funny stuff John!

 

 

 

Why do you think that crimes against the country are funny?

Dozens of indictments and a bunch of felony convictions.  Why is it funny that Trump surrounds himself with criminals?  How is that any different from any other  mob boss?

 

 

[jimrees 0]

6 hours ago, kallend said:

What we know already.

David Leonhardt 3/22/2019

 Trump was secretly pursuing a business venture in Russia and lied about it. During most of the 2016 campaign, Trump associates worked to build a Trump Tower in Moscow, while publicly denying any such business relationship. Trump’s former lawyer, Michael Cohen, lied to Congress about the talks and was sentenced to three years in prison.   

 

This is a bit disingenuous.  The sentence for lying to Congress was only 2 months, to be served concurrently with the 36 month sentence for tax fraud.