Global Temp Changes

[blue_bert 0]

May as well hear from some scientists on the subject of climate change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxEGHW6Lbu8&t=2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj9bYALLYJ4

[RonD1120 58]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

I have been quite clear when do that I want my grandchildren to choke on bad air and burn their mouths on polluted water.

That's about as intelligible as 99% of the drivel you spew. I suppose it's not your fault though, it's just the result of breathing all the mercury from those coal-fired power plants you love so much.

Don

From what I understand, a friend of mine works for Tampa Electric, China opens a new coal fired power plant every week. Now just what do you think Americans can do to stop this?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rushmc 18]

RonD1120

***

Quote

I have been quite clear when do that I want my grandchildren to choke on bad air and burn their mouths on polluted water.

That's about as intelligible as 99% of the drivel you spew. I suppose it's not your fault though, it's just the result of breathing all the mercury from those coal-fired power plants you love so much.

Don

From what I understand, a friend of mine works for Tampa Electric, China opens a new coal fired power plant every week. Now just what do you think Americans can do to stop this?

Ron
It is a religion they practice.

Anymore it has nothing to do with science.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RonD1120 58]

Amen! It is just sad.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,145]

We can't change China. We can only change ourselves. According to that same much-maligned report, China's emissions have flattened somewhat over the last three years. Which would mean they're doing something. China, after all, can't change the US, either.

No one country, or one person, can or should do everything possible. Because there's always something more. But if each of us practices a few conservative values like:

remembering that trash has to go somewhere, and cities and towns have to pay for that

remembering that produce has to come from somewhere, and it's better when it comes from people closer to us, especially if they practice good long-term (rather than short term profit maximizing) soil practicez

we can save money in the long term (along with landfill space) by reducing our electric needs. Yes, a single bulb costs more. But I e never had to replace one, where I've had to replace incandescent ones repeatedly.
Etc.

I skydive; I own a car and a motorcycle. I travel. But I try to be responsible in most practices, and make it easier for others to be responsible. Most people take the easiest path; if the easiest one also has the fewest downstream costs, great. Just get people to realize that here are, in fact, downstream costs. The fact that they, personally, don't see them on a bill doesn't mean they're not real.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,644]

rushmc

wattsupwiththat.com

You reduce your own credibility even more every time you use that source.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,139]

Quote

Now just what do you think Americans can do to stop this?

Not sure why the US would want to stop that? Rush keeps telling us how clean coal is. Are you now trying to imply it isn't clean?

[RonD1120 58]

Exactly, and that requires individual responsibility and choice not U.S. government regulation. The former is the pragmatic answer. The latter is a power grab and does not effect an adequate solution.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,145]

The government making the choice not to pay for downstream costs (eg by reducing coal emissions, often by increasing solar or wind generation) should then be seen as responsible stewardship of our tax dollars. Because the government is generally involved in paying for remediation.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[gowlerk 1,923]

From what I understand, a friend of mine works for Tampa Electric, China opens a new coal fired power plant every week. Now just what do you think Americans can do to stop this?


That's right. We should all just accept that China is now the new leader of the world. Sad.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

RonD1120

Exactly, and that requires individual responsibility and choice not U.S. government regulation. The former is the pragmatic answer. The latter is a power grab and does not effect an adequate solution.

So I have waste oil and antifreeze from my car.

I don't want to pay the costs to have it disposed of.

I can make the "individual choice" to dump it in the river, right?

None of that nasty "power grab" regulation for me.

Note: This is sarcasm, mostly.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

From what I understand, a friend of mine works for Tampa Electric, China opens a new coal fired power plant every week. Now just what do you think Americans can do to stop this?

How's that working out for China? Perhaps this is your vision of the ideal future for the US? Or this? No doubt rushmc will be along shortly to tell us 1) smog actually makes people healthier and crops grow better, and anyone who says otherwise is just drinking the lieberal kool-aid, and at the same time 2) insist there is no air pollution in China, that's all just a lie promulgated by the main-stream media to destroy American jobs.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 2,426]

>Exactly, and that requires individual responsibility and choice not U.S. government regulation.

It, of course, requires both. You would not have the choice to buy a cleaner car without government laws that require them to be available.

>The former is the pragmatic answer. The latter is a power grab and does not effect
>an adequate solution.

So you are now pro-choice? You prefer people make their own decisions on what to do with their purchase choices (or their bodies?)

[billvon 2,426]

>From what I understand, a friend of mine works for Tampa Electric, China
>opens a new coal fired power plant every week.

Your friend is misinformed. That was true several years ago, but no longer.

==============================
China Curbs Plans for More Coal-Fired Power Plants

By MICHAEL FORSYTHE
APRIL 25, 2016

HONG KONG — Coal-fired power plants have propelled much of China’s economic rise for decades, helping make the nation the world’s biggest emitter of greenhouse gases. Even with economic growth slackening, and other energy sources taking hold, new coal plants have been added.

Now Beijing is trying to slow things down.

In guidelines released on Monday, China halted plans for new coal-fired power stations in many parts of the country, and construction of some approved plants will be postponed until at least 2018.

The announcement, by the National Development and Reform Commission and the National Energy Administration, means that about 200 planned coal-fired power generators — those seeking approval and those approved but not yet under construction — may not be completed, said Lauri Myllyvirta, who analyzes China’s energy production for Greenpeace.

The total of 105 gigawatts of power those plants would have been able to produce is considerably more than the electricity-generating capacity of Britain from all sources.
====================================

China coal consumption drops again

Monday 29 February 2016 06.10 EST
AFP

China’s coal consumption fell for the second year in a row, government data showed Monday, as the world’s biggest polluter attempts to tackle chronic pollution that accompanied economic growth.

Coal use fell 3.7% last year compared to 2014 levels, according to a report from China’s National Bureau of Statistics (NBS). The drop follows a 2.9% decrease in 2014.

China’s rise to the world’s second largest economy was largely powered by cheap, dirty coal. As growth slows, the country has had a difficult time weaning itself off the fuel, even as the pollution it causes wreaks havoc on the environment and public health.
=====================================

[GeorgiaDon 340]

BTW hope you're staying out of the way of all those forest fires. The past few days have been quite smokey here, and that's 50 or 60 miles from the closest fire. I read that several were started by arsonists, what kind of a sick fuck does something like that?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[RonD1120 58]

GeorgiaDon

BTW hope you're staying out of the way of all those forest fires. The past few days have been quite smokey here, and that's 50 or 60 miles from the closest fire. I read that several were started by arsonists, what kind of a sick fuck does something like that?

Don

The fire in Shooting Creek, NC is about 10 straight line miles north. The Rabun County fire, near Tate City, is about 20 miles east. The smoke is terrible. My wife has asthma and COPD and cannot stay outside for long. We are not in immediate danger. There are rumors of arson but no one has been arrested or charged. Official opinion seems to be human carelessness.

Thanks for asking.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 622]

The world responds to Trump

"What was once unthinkable has become unstoppable."

[StreetScooby 5]

Read a very interesting article a while back, for which I do not have a link, that described the amount of processing required to have "meaningful" temperature measurements. For example, a lot of early 20th century temperature measurements came from ocean going vessels that measured intake water temperature. Lots of fudging required. Most of the temperature measurements have a std deviation of +/- 1 degF. Even satellite measurements require constant calibration because they don't fly over the exact same place of the Earth at the same time. The measurements being touted now are basically within the noise range of said instruments.

We are all engines of karma

[gowlerk 1,923]

Sea level is up. Sea ice is down. Glaciers are disappearing. No need to worry about instrumentation. We can just use our eyes.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 622]

Increasing high tides in South Florida
Octopi!

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

I read that several were started by arsonists, what kind of a sick fuck does something like that?

It's been well established that Soros is funding a lot of delinquent people to cause trouble post-Trump election. Maybe him? Just a thought.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

The points of discussion for this topic should have long ago been well established. Let me summarize my understanding of this topic:

1) What is the dominant green house gas in the atmosphere?
Water Vapor

2) How much warming is due to water vapor green house warming?
About 60 degF. Our species would not be on this planet if it were not for green house warming.

3) What is the current weight fraction of CO2 in the atmosphere?
0.0004

4) At the present emission rate of 40GT/year of CO2 and equivalents into the atmosphere, how long will that take to double to 0.0008?
About 100 years.

5) The science on CO2 warming is pretty well established. After the doubling from 0.0004 to 0.0008, how much of a temperature increase will be due to CO2?
About 1 degF.

6) "Alarmists" are claiming that positive feedbacks from this increase in CO2 will drive us to an additional 3 degC. Is this true?
Lots of very good scientists are looking into this, such as Judith Curry https://judithcurry.com/, who has proven herself to be a rational voice in this discussion. There are many different forces driving Earth's climate, most of which are not well understood at this point in time. Focused research continues around this topic. The Earth has proven itself to be a very stable system. It is most certainly not fragile.

6) The Paris agreement is looking to extract $1 trillion/year from the world's productive economy. How much of an impact will that have on the current trends?
Zero. All this will do is take more money out of our pockets, and give government more control over our lives. For no net gain.

We can all agree that pumping 40GT of CO2 and equivalents into the atmosphere isn't a good idea. Nothing being advocated by Western governments is going to change that trend. The only thing that can change it is nuclear energy. Only the adults in the room are considering that option, at this time. Thank god there are adults discussing this option. Going massively nuclear will give us many decades to sort out real energy solutions, such as fusion. There are no other rational options available to our societies at this time that will meet our energy needs. I am still waiting for a liberal climatologist to write "Living In Trees For Dummies". I will most certainly buy that book, and read it, just to hear what they have to say.

One last thought here... The largest biomass on the planet are ants, by far, IIRC. California has recently passed a bill requiring dairy farmers to capture Cow farts (actually, most of the CO2 discharge comes out of their mouths). That's how ridiculous this has become. Do ants fart, too? What happens then?

We are all engines of karma

[GeorgiaDon 340]

StreetScooby

Quote

I read that several were started by arsonists, what kind of a sick fuck does something like that?

It's been well established that Soros is funding a lot of delinquent people to cause trouble post-Trump election. Maybe him? Just a thought.

The fires have been going on for a few weeks, starting well before the election that Trump was supposed to lose, according to the polls. Why would Soros pay people to start fires to cause trouble for Clinton?

On the other hand, it seems credible to me that Trump supporters are just getting a jump start on the smog we will soon be choking on. Of course we won't be allowed to call it "smog", we'll have to call it "eau de prosperity". Also think of the savings to Medicare when all those asthmatics and COPD patients just die instead of consuming health care resources. What's not to love about that?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 18]

gowlerk

Sea level is up. Sea ice is down. Glaciers are disappearing. No need to worry about instrumentation. We can just use our eyes.

Exactly. The ebb and flow of nature is being seen every day. But somehow the alarmists just have to make man the blame for change. Even though climate is never known to been static.

Now it's time to use something you're not using, that is your brain

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,426]

>6) The Paris agreement is looking to extract $1 trillion/year from the world's
>productive economy. How much of an impact will that have on the current trends?

Fossil fuel interests are trying to avoid responsibility for climate change in order to put over $12 trillion in their pockets over the next 10 years. How much will that damage the rest of the world?

>We can all agree that pumping 40GT of CO2 and equivalents into the atmosphere >isn't a good idea. Nothing being advocated by Western governments is going to
>change that trend. The only thing that can change it is nuclear energy. Only the
>adults in the room are considering that option, at this time. Thank god there are
>adults discussing this option. Going massively nuclear will give us many decades to
>sort out real energy solutions, such as fusion. There are no other rational options
>available to our societies at this time that will meet our energy needs.

That is just one possible option. Here's another:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwio5vvdn6zQAhUB8WMKHUynC2IQFggiMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scientificamerican.com%2Farticle%2Fa-solar-grand-plan%2F%3Fresponsive%3Dfalse&usg=AFQjCNFWrJ12lUvDgcaG2z5Q0nNiRVGq2g&sig2=WJsXcmwUMoehUq7Z4TIDjA

Either one, or a mix of both, could meet our needs.