DanG 1 #76 June 25, 2015 So, you are just an unabashed racist? Why else work the word "nigger" into every post? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #77 June 25, 2015 billvon>You defend the indefensible. He's not defending the flag. He is saying that there are many people who do not feel it symbolizes what you feel it does. The original US Constitution supports slavery. That does not mean that everyone who supports the US Constitution supports slavery. The Whydah Gally was a famous slave ship that sank off the coast of Cape Cod. It was discovered in 1984 and thousands of people dive on the wreck. A guy in our parking lot has a "Whydah Gally" sticker on his car. It's a fair bet that he does not support slavery. Cotton from the South was shipped all over the world. That does not mean that anyone who used cotton before 1860 supported slavery. The people who pulled off the 9/11 attacks were Muslims. That does not mean that everyone who supports the rights of Muslims supports terrorism. Don't make the mistake that everyone who supports anything has the same feelings about it that you do. The 16 year old girl who wears a Confederate flag bikini didn't buy it because she wants to advertise her hatred of blacks. The General Lee in the Dukes of Hazzard did not have a Confederate flag because the show supported slavery. You may think it represents slavery, but most people who used it within our lifetimes did not. The problem with that approach, and those analogies, Bill, is that they fail to appreciate that although, as you say, the Confederate flag, as you say, no longer literally symbolizes "slavery", and has evolved, in the late 20th and 21st Centuries, into a generic regional-pride symbol for many people, there are those white people who have always concurrently used it as an overt symbol and expression of racial animus (even if not literally "slavery"), or at the very least, a preference for racial segregation. It was, for example, most certainly used as a "battle flag" by the most strident opponents, mainly in the Deep South, of the civil rights movements in the 1950s and 60s - as is within the memories of many millions of people (including myself) who were alive at the time. To this day, even though it's used by some with innocent intent, it is used by many (even if not all) of those Americans who are bigoted against black people to express that bigotry. And thus, it has come to be viewed not just by American black people, but also many millions of Americans who are not black, as a symbol of ongoing racism and oppression that should be consigned, if not entirely to the ash heap, at least to a museum. Sometimes it takes time for collective conscience to catch up with that; that's why the Confederate flag on the Dukes of Hazzard may be viewed differently today than it was in 1979. To some, the General Lee is a souped-up orange car on a TV show. To many others, though, General Lee was a traitor who betrayed the uniform he donned at West Point, and should have been hanged for treason; and had he prevailed, millions of black people in America would have continued to be enslaved, possibly for generations. In the 1960s Charlie Brown and his friends used to wear white sheets as Halloween costumes. Of course I don't think for a moment that Charles Schulz was giving a veiled nod to the KKK. Still, I'll hazard a guess that their pal Franklin's parents and grandparents weren't particularly comfortable with those kids dressing up that way. Similarly, even though the swastika is a symbol that pre-dated the Nazis by thousands of years in various non-European cultures, it's generally considered pretty un-cool to display it now, even if, say, just by a person to honor his great-uncle who died as an ignorant 17 year old kid because he was drafted into the Wehrmacht during WWII. So yes, to this day, the Confederate flag occupies.. not an exclusive place, but certainly a concurrent place, as a symbol of ongoing racial animus and oppression in the United States, and no amount of wishing, hoping, spinning or dissimulation will make it otherwise. That's the reality today, and it is ignored or given rhetorical cover at the peril of enabling it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #78 June 25, 2015 Good point! Time for that treasonous and dis-honoured flag of a failed state to retire. Commemorating lost battles is a collective form of Prolonged Traumatic Stress Disorder. As for anvil brother claiming that the Confederate Flag has "evolved" away from what it originally symbolized ..... nobody told the outsiders. Historians - like me - are as uncomfortable around Confederate Flags as we are around Nazi flags. Nazi Germany was another racist state that started a war it could not win and was deservedly ground into the dust of history. Now the only reason we mention Nazi Germany or the Confederate States of America is to illustrate bad decisions in hopes that our children will not repeat the same mistakes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #79 June 25, 2015 DanGSo, you are just an unabashed racist? Why else work the word "nigger" into every post? You missed the word BOTH in my reply. So your wrong on that, and your also wrong about me using it on every post. Care to reply and be wrong a third time? To honestly reply to you its a dig at a certain poster who also flings inappropriate racial slang for shock value. If you don't know who I am talking about well, your not paying attention around here I guess. Feel free to call me a racist some more though it doesn't bother me at all because you are wrong I am using it to make a pointl Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #80 June 25, 2015 DanGSo, you are just an unabashed racist? Why else work the word "nigger" into every post? You be sayin' "nigger," so you be a racist honkey mofo? As a response to those who get their panties in a wad regarding perceived anti-negro sentiment, I have noticed that the people who have been loathe to visit me when I lived in predominantly nonwhite neighborhoods are those who were quickest to blast anyone who they deemed 'racist.' People that I view as egalitarian are those who don't bat an eye at ethnicity per se, but are perceptive regarding differences in culture, education and status (an M.D. Captain vs. a high school dropout PFC, for example). I reserve the right to rank on deadbeat trailer trash or deadbeat hood rats in the same breath, in the same sense that I will work in the lab alongside PhDs from Bulganistan or Birmingham of any ethnicity. People who bitch the loudest about racism are the most racist themselves, from what I've seen. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #81 June 25, 2015 You still fail to see that for most people born from the late 70's and up in the south the flag has nothing to do with anything you are talking about. That's why people born from then till now all call it the rebel flag, and not the confederate flag. I grew up in the whitest country song listening area of south Louisiana, and it NEVER took a meaning of hatred for anyone our age. I agree that in your time of the 60's and up it was used as hate, but that was a different time and that's where I feel most of the knowledge about the flag is coming from, and from that perspective it's true. But for the last 30 years it's taken a drastic different meaning for our generation as the shit history of the civil war and slavery is fading from people's memories. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #82 June 25, 2015 AnvilbrotherQuoteYou defend the indefensible. The symbolism of that flag has not changed one whit in 150 years. Why do you think the KKK adopted it? They taught you that down south did they? Well I am happy to tell you that you are FLAT OUT STONE COLD FUCKING WRONG about that!!! Not everyone sees the rebel flag as a meaning of nigger hating like you do. www.jessejoyce.com/v2/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/kkk.jpg i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/10/article-2498164-1955120C00000578-797_634x425.jpg i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/05/25/article-1281266-002431D900000258-895_468x348.jpg mediaanarchist.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/kkk-rally-ii.jpg?w=594 blogs.bet.com/news/newsyoushouldknow/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/football-rally-300x225.jpg www.theroot.com/content/dam/theroot/articles/culture/2014/07/kkk_and_law_enforcement_have_close_history_in_florida/88984179-members-of-the-fraternal-white-knights-of-the-ku-klux.jpg.CROP.rtstoryvar-large.jpg www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_detail/images/media/klan_march.jpg Only the wilfully ignorant would see it as anything other that what it was 150 years ago, 50 years ago, and continues to be.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #83 June 25, 2015 billvon>You defend the indefensible. He's not defending the flag. He is saying that there are many people who do not feel it symbolizes what you feel it does. The original US Constitution supports slavery. That does not mean that everyone who supports the US Constitution supports slavery. A flag is just a piece of fabric. As a graphic design it's quite attractive. He is defending its vile symbolism, which (unlike the Constitution) is still used by white supremacist groups, neo-Nazis, and their fellow travelers.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #84 June 25, 2015 kallend***QuoteYou defend the indefensible. The symbolism of that flag has not changed one whit in 150 years. Why do you think the KKK adopted it? They taught you that down south did they? Well I am happy to tell you that you are FLAT OUT STONE COLD FUCKING WRONG about that!!! Not everyone sees the rebel flag as a meaning of nigger hating like you do. www.jessejoyce.com/v2/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/kkk.jpg i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/10/article-2498164-1955120C00000578-797_634x425.jpg i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/05/25/article-1281266-002431D900000258-895_468x348.jpg mediaanarchist.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/kkk-rally-ii.jpg?w=594 blogs.bet.com/news/newsyoushouldknow/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/football-rally-300x225.jpg www.theroot.com/content/dam/theroot/articles/culture/2014/07/kkk_and_law_enforcement_have_close_history_in_florida/88984179-members-of-the-fraternal-white-knights-of-the-ku-klux.jpg.CROP.rtstoryvar-large.jpg www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_detail/images/media/klan_march.jpg Only the wilfully ignorant would see it as anything other that what it was 150 years ago, 50 years ago, and continues to be. That's cute, take the .01% wack jobs and apply it to everyone to prove your arguement. You are still wrong on your assumptions. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #85 June 25, 2015 Only the wilfully ignorant would see it as anything other that what it was 150 years ago, 50 years ago, and continues to be.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #86 June 25, 2015 kallend***>You defend the indefensible. He's not defending the flag. He is saying that there are many people who do not feel it symbolizes what you feel it does. The original US Constitution supports slavery. That does not mean that everyone who supports the US Constitution supports slavery. A flag is just a piece of fabric. As a graphic design it's quite attractive. He is defending its vile symbolism, which (unlike the Constitution) is still used by white supremacist groups, neo-Nazis, and their fellow travelers. I am defending WHAT the vile symbolism? Can you not fucking read?? QuoteAnvilbrother wrote: The super majority of the people standing up for it are not standing up for the shit you keep typing over, and over, and fucking omg over. They stand up for it from a southern heritage of the areas they live in, the traditions of hunting and fishing, family, food, music. You got your ass handed to you recently so I am gonna go ahead and dismiss these last few posts from you as an attempt to climb back on your horse. While you are tightening the straps on that saddle go ahead and quote me where I defend the use of the flag for its "vile symbolism". Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #87 June 25, 2015 media.cagle.com/81/2015/06/22/165448_600.jpg... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #88 June 25, 2015 AnvilbrotherYou still fail to see that for most people born from the late 70's and up in the south the flag has nothing to do with anything you are talking about. That's why people born from then till now all call it the rebel flag, and not the confederate flag. “I think the flag is inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery, and particularly when people use it, you know, obviously for murder and to justify hated so vicious that you would kill somebody, I think that that symbolism needs to end. And I think South Carolina is doing the right thing. There have been people who have used it for southern pride and heritage and all of that but really to I think to every African-American in the country it’s a symbolism of slavery to them and now it’s a symbol of murder for this young man and so I think it’s time to put it in a museum.”; Senator Rand Paul (R, KY) Many other Republicans, including Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, have also called for the flag to be taken down for much the same reasons.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #89 June 25, 2015 kallend ***You still fail to see that for most people born from the late 70's and up in the south the flag has nothing to do with anything you are talking about. That's why people born from then till now all call it the rebel flag, and not the confederate flag. “I think the flag is inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery, and particularly when people use it, you know, obviously for murder and to justify hated so vicious that you would kill somebody, I think that that symbolism needs to end. And I think South Carolina is doing the right thing. There have been people who have used it for southern pride and heritage and all of that but really to I think to every African-American in the country it’s a symbolism of slavery to them and now it’s a symbol of murder for this young man and so I think it’s time to put it in a museum.”; Senator Rand Paul (R, KY) Many other Republicans, including Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, have also called for the flag to be taken down for much the same reasons. Obviously they are just RINO's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #90 June 25, 2015 Amazon ******You still fail to see that for most people born from the late 70's and up in the south the flag has nothing to do with anything you are talking about. That's why people born from then till now all call it the rebel flag, and not the confederate flag. “I think the flag is inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery, and particularly when people use it, you know, obviously for murder and to justify hated so vicious that you would kill somebody, I think that that symbolism needs to end. And I think South Carolina is doing the right thing. There have been people who have used it for southern pride and heritage and all of that but really to I think to every African-American in the country it’s a symbolism of slavery to them and now it’s a symbol of murder for this young man and so I think it’s time to put it in a museum.”; Senator Rand Paul (R, KY) Many other Republicans, including Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, have also called for the flag to be taken down for much the same reasons. Obviously they are just RINO's Former Sen. Trent Lott (R, Mississippi) too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #91 June 25, 2015 kallend *********You still fail to see that for most people born from the late 70's and up in the south the flag has nothing to do with anything you are talking about. That's why people born from then till now all call it the rebel flag, and not the confederate flag. “I think the flag is inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery, and particularly when people use it, you know, obviously for murder and to justify hated so vicious that you would kill somebody, I think that that symbolism needs to end. And I think South Carolina is doing the right thing. There have been people who have used it for southern pride and heritage and all of that but really to I think to every African-American in the country it’s a symbolism of slavery to them and now it’s a symbol of murder for this young man and so I think it’s time to put it in a museum.”; Senator Rand Paul (R, KY) Many other Republicans, including Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, have also called for the flag to be taken down for much the same reasons. Obviously they are just RINO's Former Sen. Trent Lott (R, Mississippi) too. Senator Lott was at least good at getting some pork... Trent Lott International Airport where Gold Coast Skydivers used to be back in the early 2000's is a hella nice airport for the area where it exists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #92 June 25, 2015 QuoteTo honestly reply to you its a dig at a certain poster who also flings inappropriate racial slang for shock value. If you don't know who I am talking about well, your not paying attention around here I guess. I do know which poster you are refering to. I'm surprized that you're chosen to stoop to his level. Also, since it is not at all obvious that you are using the word to make a oblique dig at someone who's not every involved in the current discussion, it is only serving to make you look bad. QuoteFeel free to call me a racist some more though it doesn't bother me at all because you are wrong I am using it to make a pointl I was trying to figure out why you kept using the word. Your point is childish. Just ignore the other poster, everyone else does. To the larger point about the Confederate flag, I live in Central Virginia where it is not at all unusual to see Condererate flags on bumper stickers, flying at people's houses, or as giant 4'x6' flags waving behind jacked up 4x4 trucks. I have never seen a black person displaying the Confederate flag. Since it only represents huntin', fishin', and country music, don't you find that odd? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #93 June 25, 2015 Mitt Romney on the Confederate flag in 2007, in a CNN interview: "That's not a flag I recognize. That flag, frankly, is divisive, and it shouldn't be shown,"... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #94 June 25, 2015 DanGQuoteTo the larger point about the Confederate flag, I live in Central Virginia where it is not at all unusual to see Condererate flags on bumper stickers, flying at people's houses, or as giant 4'x6' flags waving behind jacked up 4x4 trucks. I have never seen a black person displaying the Confederate flag. Since it only represents huntin', fishin', and country music, don't you find that odd? http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/24/i-am-a-black-south-carolinian-heres-why-i-support-the-confederate-flag/ Quote I am a black South Carolinian. Here’s why I support the Confederate flag. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Anvilbrother 0 #95 June 25, 2015 Amazon ************You still fail to see that for most people born from the late 70's and up in the south the flag has nothing to do with anything you are talking about. That's why people born from then till now all call it the rebel flag, and not the confederate flag. “I think the flag is inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery, and particularly when people use it, you know, obviously for murder and to justify hated so vicious that you would kill somebody, I think that that symbolism needs to end. And I think South Carolina is doing the right thing. There have been people who have used it for southern pride and heritage and all of that but really to I think to every African-American in the country it’s a symbolism of slavery to them and now it’s a symbol of murder for this young man and so I think it’s time to put it in a museum.”; Senator Rand Paul (R, KY) Many other Republicans, including Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, have also called for the flag to be taken down for much the same reasons. Obviously they are just RINO's Former Sen. Trent Lott (R, Mississippi) too. Senator Lott was at least good at getting some pork... Trent Lott International Airport where Gold Coast Skydivers used to be back in the early 2000's is a hella nice airport for the area where it exists. You mean thanks to Trent Lott's investments to that airport the city of Moss Point now have the benefit of a Northrop Grumman plant there building unmanned aerial vehicles putting jobs and revenue into the economy? Yeah thanks alot Trent!! http://msbusiness.com/2014/03/moss-point-riding-leading-edge-northrop-grumman/ Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #96 June 25, 2015 So you found one black guy and we're supposed to take that at face value, but multiple references to white racist supporters of the flag are all fringe lunatics? Face it, the flag is used as a racist symbol way, way, way more than it is used as a symbol of historical reference or egalitarian Southern pride. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rick 67 #97 June 25, 2015 Jeb Bush had the confederate flag that flew in Tallahassee taken down in 2001. He said that part of our history now belongs in a museum.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #98 June 25, 2015 > He is defending its vile symbolism Do you defend the vile text in the US constitution that requires that you return escaped slaves to their owners? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #99 June 25, 2015 >So, you are just an unabashed racist? Your one warning. Cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #100 June 25, 2015 RickJeb Bush had the confederate flag that flew in Tallahassee taken down in 2001. He said that part of our history now belongs in a museum. I have to say I agree with that idea.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next Page 4 of 15 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Anvilbrother 0 #95 June 25, 2015 Amazon ************You still fail to see that for most people born from the late 70's and up in the south the flag has nothing to do with anything you are talking about. That's why people born from then till now all call it the rebel flag, and not the confederate flag. “I think the flag is inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery, and particularly when people use it, you know, obviously for murder and to justify hated so vicious that you would kill somebody, I think that that symbolism needs to end. And I think South Carolina is doing the right thing. There have been people who have used it for southern pride and heritage and all of that but really to I think to every African-American in the country it’s a symbolism of slavery to them and now it’s a symbol of murder for this young man and so I think it’s time to put it in a museum.”; Senator Rand Paul (R, KY) Many other Republicans, including Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, have also called for the flag to be taken down for much the same reasons. Obviously they are just RINO's Former Sen. Trent Lott (R, Mississippi) too. Senator Lott was at least good at getting some pork... Trent Lott International Airport where Gold Coast Skydivers used to be back in the early 2000's is a hella nice airport for the area where it exists. You mean thanks to Trent Lott's investments to that airport the city of Moss Point now have the benefit of a Northrop Grumman plant there building unmanned aerial vehicles putting jobs and revenue into the economy? Yeah thanks alot Trent!! http://msbusiness.com/2014/03/moss-point-riding-leading-edge-northrop-grumman/ Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #96 June 25, 2015 So you found one black guy and we're supposed to take that at face value, but multiple references to white racist supporters of the flag are all fringe lunatics? Face it, the flag is used as a racist symbol way, way, way more than it is used as a symbol of historical reference or egalitarian Southern pride. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #97 June 25, 2015 Jeb Bush had the confederate flag that flew in Tallahassee taken down in 2001. He said that part of our history now belongs in a museum.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #98 June 25, 2015 > He is defending its vile symbolism Do you defend the vile text in the US constitution that requires that you return escaped slaves to their owners? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #99 June 25, 2015 >So, you are just an unabashed racist? Your one warning. Cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #100 June 25, 2015 RickJeb Bush had the confederate flag that flew in Tallahassee taken down in 2001. He said that part of our history now belongs in a museum. I have to say I agree with that idea.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
