American Sniper

[jclalor 12]

I guess it was nominated for all those awards before they knew the guy was a pathological liar.

His lies that he shot looters during Katrina, shot ant killed 2 robbers in Texas, with out any investigation by the police, and that he also beat up a Governor seem not to matter.

I also thought the movie sucked.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/film/62133/american-sniper-five-things-the-film-gets-wrong

[lawrocket 3]

I had a discussion about this very subject. I have no doubt Chris Kyle was a bad ass. He did, in fact, do many of the deeds that were claimed.

But rather than letting it speak for itself, he was rather colorful in terms of other events. He didn't have to. But he did.

The movie was based on a true story. Omissions always occur. Glorification occurs. JFK? Garrison was a homophobic egotistical piece of shit. Painted as a hero.

Rudy? Full of shit for much of it.

Good Morning Vietnam? Bullshit.

Seriously. It's called a "biographical." It's not a documentary. So it left out the parts where Kyle was a bullshitter. That's what filmmakers do: leave out the bad shit and pump up the good shit.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jclalor 12]

lawrocket

I had a discussion about this very subject. I have no doubt Chris Kyle was a bad ass. He did, in fact, do many of the deeds that were claimed.

But rather than letting it speak for itself, he was rather colorful in terms of other events. He didn't have to. But he did.

The movie was based on a true story. Omissions always occur. Glorification occurs. JFK? Garrison was a homophobic egotistical piece of shit. Painted as a hero.

Rudy? Full of shit for much of it.

Good Morning Vietnam? Bullshit.

Seriously. It's called a "biographical." It's not a documentary. So it left out the parts where Kyle was a bullshitter. That's what filmmakers do: leave out the bad shit and pump up the good shit.

I realize there's always going to be some "artistic license" with a biographical movie, I have no problem with that. I thought "Lone Survivor" was a very good movie.

I think if you're going to heralded as a national hero, your personnel integrity has to be just a bit above average. I'm far from a Ventura fan, but he did successfully sue Kile for libel, not normally an easy task.

And claiming that he shot and killed 2 carjackers, and then after the shooting, he simply gave the police a Pentagon phone number to call is bizarre.

I also don't dismiss his service to our country, or the work he did with returning veterans, that was really the only part of the movie I enjoyed, especially the fact that they appeared to use genuine disabled vets in cameo roles.

[MikeJD 0]

The whole idea of biographical film making, or of movies purporting to be 'the true story' or 'based on real events', is an odd one anyway.

You simply cannot make a watchable Hollywood film without also making a lot of stuff up, at some level or other. At a minimum you have to pull events together, provide dramatic structure and theme and emotional resonance. You have to fill in the gaps between documented events by inventing incidents and conversations. You probably have to create wholly fictional characters, or merge real ones, in order to serve the story.

At most I think a real person or event can only provide the jumping-off point or the framework for a movie. Even in the most faithful biopic, surely more than half of what's up there on the screen will have originated in the minds of the screenwriter and director.

I think the other issue is that most Americans seem to attach much more significance to military service than, say, we Brits. Military-themed movies seem to attract a lot of argument on these forums, as though people feel they should be more accurate than the other Hollywood fluff: I don't see why that should be the case.

Edited to add: I see our posts crossed. You'd already addresed some of what I said above.

[SkyDekker 1,145]

I watche dthe movie on Saturday night. I can't say I am in any way an expert on Kyle, but knew the "basic story" if you will.

The movie was good, but something about the movie rubbed me the wrong way. I have yet to be able to really figure out what that is, but it is there. I think I would have enjoyed this movie more if I didn't know it was based on a real person, as weird as that sounds.

It felt like there just was too much "look at me, I am awesome".

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply] "look at me, I am awesome".

[grue 1]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm working on the book a little bit at a time, but there's just so much Team America and Team Jesus in there that it's difficult for me to read without substantial eyerolling. That on top of the "RAWR I AM AWESOME" writing style… ouch.

cavete terrae.

[brenthutch 388]

SkyDekker

It felt like there just was too much "look at me, I am awesome".

I think that sentiment is a requirement for membership in JSOC.

[regulator 0]

SkyDekker

I watche dthe movie on Saturday night. I can't say I am in any way an expert on Kyle, but knew the "basic story" if you will.

The movie was good, but something about the movie rubbed me the wrong way. I have yet to be able to really figure out what that is, but it is there. I think I would have enjoyed this movie more if I didn't know it was based on a real person, as weird as that sounds.

It felt like there just was too much "look at me, I am awesome".

Then you obviously didn't watch the movie.

Because if you did there was a scene where another soldier Chris Kyle supposedly saved him and while the younger soldier wanted to tell everyone what a hero ck was he didn't want that recognition. He just wanted to do his job. Perhaps you should stick with movies like driving miss daisy. That way you and jcalor can compare notes.

[BornToThrill 0]

First, everyone calm down. Remember we are talking about a man who was murdered. He also served his country honorably and is the most successful and accomplished sniper in US history. Don't believe these propaganda filled articles and take everything with a grain of salt.

Let me ask you, what have YOU done for your country? Exactly...

[Stumpy 256]

regulator

Perhaps you should stick with movies like driving miss daisy. That way you and jcalor can compare notes.

Grow up.

He's allowed his opinion, you are allowed yours.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[lawrocket 3]

The criticism of Kyle is not what he did or didn't do while serving his country. The criticism of him is that afterward he was a self-aggrandizing pompous braggart who didn't hesitate to embellish on the stories. Obviously, this makes for fertile film material. Carlos Hathcock was about as humble as they come, came back from Vietnam with multiple skin grafts and died of MS.

Chris Kyle let his ego, to a large extent, outshine his legitimate accomplishments. Yes, he truly was one of the baddest-ass SOBs to ever set foot in theater. But I wonder if the film depicts his capping a couple of robbers or knocking out Ventura. I hope not.

Unless the film tries to do something to expose that aspect of his personality. But, as it is, it's neither here nor there. Someone else want to make another movie about a sniper named Christopher Pyle and expose that? By all means, do it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[skycop 0]

http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2013/02/08/confirmed-american-sniper-chris-kyle-killed-two-men-at-a-gas-station-in-2009/

Quote

His lies that he shot looters during Katrina, shot ant killed 2 robbers in Texas, with out any investigation by the police, and that he also beat up a Governor seem not to matter.

Looks like one isn't a lie.

Marcus Littrell also mentioned it in his book "Service", I don't think he's a liar.

The man was complicated, but a liar, I don't think so. The one with the huge ego is Ventura, he has supposedly embellished his Navy service, along with being an avowed conspiracy theorist.

It was an excellent movie about a good man, but his vocation will always have detractors, ones who's professional expertise is far removed from armed conflict.

IMHO

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[xsniper 1]

BornToThrill

First, everyone calm down. Remember we are talking about a man who was murdered. He also served his country honorably and is the most successful and accomplished sniper in US history. Don't believe these propaganda filled articles and take everything with a grain of salt.

Let me ask you, what have YOU done for your country? Exactly...

Thank You

[champu 1]

champu the spoiler

Him coming home and bragging about his accomplishments was definitely not one of the themes in the movie. His modesty varies a bit, but generally it's other soldiers talking him up or giving him crap for having a reputation and it mostly happens in theater.

The topic they beat to death was how messed up his at home life became until he took up the opportunity to help other vets at the advice of a shrink. Before that he was obsessed with getting going on his next tour and he was extremely distant when around his family. At one point he was at a party and kids were playing with a dog (can't remember if it was his son or another kid), the dog got the kid down on the ground and he rushed across the yard and almost slit the dogs throat until his wife snaps him out of it.

[lawrocket 3]

champu

***Him coming home and bragging about his accomplishments was definitely not one of the themes in the movie. His modesty varies a bit, but generally it's other soldiers talking him up or giving him crap for having a reputation and it mostly happens in theater.

The topic they beat to death was how messed up his at home life became until he took up the opportunity to help other vets at the advice of a shrink. Before that he was obsessed with getting going on his next tour and he was extremely distant when around his family. At one point he was at a party and kids were playing with a dog (can't remember if it was his son or another kid), the dog got the kid down on the ground and he rushed across the yard and almost slit the dogs throat until his wife snaps him out of it.

Damn. Thanks for not spoiling it!

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[D22369 0]

Quote

It's like the old joke: "I'm the best sniper you'll ever see." If I ever see you, then you're not a good sniper.

The joke goes - If you heard the shot - you weren't the target

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[jclalor 12]

regulator

***I watche dthe movie on Saturday night. I can't say I am in any way an expert on Kyle, but knew the "basic story" if you will.

The movie was good, but something about the movie rubbed me the wrong way. I have yet to be able to really figure out what that is, but it is there. I think I would have enjoyed this movie more if I didn't know it was based on a real person, as weird as that sounds.

It felt like there just was too much "look at me, I am awesome".

Then you obviously didn't watch the movie.

Because if you did there was a scene where another soldier Chris Kyle supposedly saved him and while the younger soldier wanted to tell everyone what a hero ck was he didn't want that recognition. He just wanted to do his job. Perhaps you should stick with movies like driving miss daisy. That way you and jcalor can compare notes.

And just what was trying to be portrayed at the end, when he walks up on his kids and then on his wife pointing a revolver at her? She seemed to think it was no bid deal, that was bizarre.

[Boomerdog 0]

I'll give "The Guardian" and "The Daily Telegraph" about as much credibility as you probably give Breitbart or Fox news. So you came out of combat operations in much better shape?

This season, the two movies, "American Sniper" and the "Imitation Game" are bookends to each other. War is first fought in the mind and ends at the tip of the spear. It's dirty ugly business or as General Sherman once said, "War is hell and you can't refine it."

You sleep well at night because whether you like it or not, there are those out there who will do violence on your behalf to protect you against barbarians. Please make sure that out of respect to those who allow you to sleep well, you get your full eight hours. And lastly, those who have come back from combat don't ask that you fawn all over them but don't spit in their face either. Do that and you'll probably need some plastic surgery.

[jakee 1,259]

Boomerdog

You sleep well at night because whether you like it or not, there are those out there who will do violence on your behalf to protect you against barbarians.

You can't use that as a blanket coverall against criticism of anyone from the military.

Sometimes (quite often lately) the violence they do has nothing to do with protecting us, and sometimes our guys are the barbarians.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mirage62 0]

Of course you right, sometimes pretty good people do bad things. A lot more German soldiers got shot with there hands up by British soldiers (and American) than we like to admit. In the movies, for the most part, it was always the "bad" Germans that did that sort of thing.

The man served his country, he died trying to help a vet. He wasn't perfect - oh and he was a Christian - which bugs some people for some odd reason.

Hell he was from Texas of course he bragged!!! :)

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[Phil1111 913]

mirage62

Of course you right, sometimes pretty good people do bad things. A lot more German soldiers got shot with there hands up by British soldiers (and American) than we like to admit. In the movies, for the most part, it was always the "bad" Germans that did that sort of thing.

The man served his country, he died trying to help a vet. He wasn't perfect - oh and he was a Christian - which bugs some people for some odd reason.

Hell he was from Texas of course he bragged!!! :)

Don't the "winners" always get to "right" history?

IMO Kyle took certain liberties with some facts. If i disassociated with everyone who didn't do that on occasion I'd be alone.

I don't think he was a "hero", more that he was just very good and dedicated to his job.Does ego go with JSOC or special forces? Sure it does just like it does with some skygods.

On balance setting aside God, hurrah AMERICA, he was a dedicated soldier and he died trying to help others. There are probably F-15 pilots that killed more enemy combatants. His story, on balance, worth telling.

Read the book, waiting for an online view of the movie.

[SkyDekker 1,145]

Quote

Then you obviously didn't watch the movie.

Because if you did there was a scene where another soldier Chris Kyle supposedly saved him and while the younger soldier wanted to tell everyone what a hero ck was he didn't want that recognition. He just wanted to do his job.

Yes, that one scene was there. Yet it didn't take away the feeling I got from the movie as a whole.

As I said before, I am/was in no way an expert on the man, just knew his basic story of the number of kills and his help with vets and him getting shot on a range after. That's all I knew going into the movie.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Read the book, or better yet listen to the audiobook read by a man with a Texas draw. The movie did not go into detail but about 1/8th of the WHY he wanted to go back and fight, or WHY his wife came off as sort of a B$tch. It also did not go into detail about how every one of his confirmed kills was witnessed, and had a boat load of paperwork behind it, or how he was under very tight oversight by lawyers due to his success, and they wanted to make sure everything was legit. It diddnt talk about him initially being denied entry into the military due to the pins in his wrist, and the BUDS scenes in the movie were horse shit compared to real buds. I dont know why they did not use the real discovery channel footage from the buds documentary, and make it more realistic instead of the way they did it.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[SkyDekker 1,145]

Anvilbrother

Read the book, or better yet listen to the audiobook read by a man with a Texas draw. The movie did not go into detail but about 1/8th of the WHY he wanted to go back and fight, or WHY his wife came off as sort of a B$tch. It also did not go into detail about how every one of his confirmed kills was witnessed, and had a boat load of paperwork behind it, or how he was under very tight oversight by lawyers due to his success, and they wanted to make sure everything was legit. It diddnt talk about him initially being denied entry into the military due to the pins in his wrist, and the BUDS scenes in the movie were horse shit compared to real buds. I dont know why they did not use the real discovery channel footage from the buds documentary, and make it more realistic instead of the way they did it.

I don't know either. Nor is my review of the movie a reflection on the man. Can't say I would ever use a Hollywood movie as a measure of a man.