You have to choose one

[Amazon 7]

cvfd1399

When seconds count police are minutes away.

Or hours around here....

[kelpdiver 2]

quade

All they have to do is get you out of the room. Presumably they have access to tools like; axes, chain saws, crowbars.

Once you're out, you have access to things like; running, cars, oh and the axes, chain saws and crowbars the neighbors brought over too. Although, clearly getting a mile or two away is probably the way to go and all you need for that are feet.

So they're going to get my out of my locked house/room in less than 10 minutes (well less - I spent at least 5 minutes trying to get action on 911, plus time to call them, explain the need, and for them to get their shit and come on over). Seems like they'd be at risk to the bad guys.

And given the choice of a gun or a chainsaw against killers, I pick the gun every time.

[billvon 2,425]

>do they have working guns or working cell phones?

Either or both; depends on the neighbors. But the more important tool they have are hands to open the door.

[DanG 1]

Quote

Either or both; depends on the neighbors. But the more important tool they have are hands to open the door.

No, no, no, Bill. You're supposed to be a liberal gun-o-phobe. The correct answer is that your neighbors have arms. Arms to hug the murderer.

- Dan G

[BIGUN 1,068]

turtlespeed

***You're locked in a room with your spouse and children. There is a note saying that someone will be entering in 10 minutes to kill you, your spouse, and your children.

You can either have a loaded gun or a working cell phone.

If you call 911 the police will get there anywhere between 8 to 11 minutes.

Which do you choose?

Did you REALLY think the anti gunners were going to even come close to taking your question seriously?

Not really.

Nor, was I hoping to change anyone's deeply-rooted philosophical beliefs.

In all seriousness. I really wonder why the liberals are so anti-gun? Is it a fear of themselves that is greater than the fear of others who may do them harm? Have they lived such a sheltered life never to have seen the raw savagery their fellow man can possess. Or, the opposite... they've seen the savagery and are afraid of what it will bring out in them.

While my question was hypothetical; I was trying to find, ascertain and am genuinely curious - is there no scenario by which they will pick up a gun to defend themselves or their families. I would really like to know the answer to this.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

I really wonder why the liberals are so anti-gun?

Your premise is flawed. Virtually all the "liberals" I know have no objection to law-abiding sane citizens owning firearms.

However, it seems these days that objecting to being murdered in your seat as you are enjoying a movie is sufficient to be labeled "anti-gun".

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[DanG 1]

Quote

While my question was hypothetical; I was trying to find, ascertain and am genuinely curious - is there no scenario by which they will pick up a gun to defend themselves or their families. I would really like to know the answer to this.

Then why throw in the "when seconds count the police are minutes away" angle?

If this is what you really want to know, then the scenario is that you are in a remote cabin with your family with no hope for outside assistance. A crazed murderer enters the cabin, intent on killing you and your family. There is a loaded shotgun on the table. What do you do?

- Dan G

[BIGUN 1,068]

>Then why throw in the "when seconds count the police are minutes away" angle?

Observation in this forum. Seems it's always - a matter for the police angle.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DanG 1]

Quote

Observation in this forum. Seems it's always - a matter for the police angle.

I haven't seen that, except maybe from one or two posters.

- Dan G

[SkyDekker 1,138]

BIGUN

You're locked in a room with your spouse and children. There is a note saying that someone will be entering in 10 minutes to kill you, your spouse, and your children.

You can either have a loaded gun or a working cell phone.

If you call 911 the police will get there anywhere between 8 to 11 minutes.

Which do you choose?

What good is the gun going to do? The pro-gun crowd always states that those intent on killing will find a way to do it, and the gun is just a tool.

So, with that logic, if they knew you had a gun, they would just place explosives and blow up the room.

(Who cares what the note says, they have already kidnapped you and are holding you against your will. Clearly these are people who cannot be trusted. Plus there is a donut shop around the corner, they would be at my place a lot quicker)

[Boomerdog 0]

A Desert Eagle .50 with hollow points and the wife will have the Mossbauer 12 gauge with 00 Buck ready to rock in roll in case the tangoe get past me.

[billvon 2,425]

>In all seriousness. I really wonder why the liberals are so anti-gun?

I'm more liberal than I am conservative, and I'm not anti-gun any more than I am anti-jackhammer. I just don't think a gun (or a jackhammer) is the one ideal solution to all problems.

[BIGUN 1,068]

I know what you said is important to you. I just don't know how to address it. Am I supposed to add a variable called "donut shop" within two minutes to the equation?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Amazon 7]

BIGUN

******You're locked in a room with your spouse and children. There is a note saying that someone will be entering in 10 minutes to kill you, your spouse, and your children.

You can either have a loaded gun or a working cell phone.

If you call 911 the police will get there anywhere between 8 to 11 minutes.

Which do you choose?

Did you REALLY think the anti gunners were going to even come close to taking your question seriously?

Not really.

Nor, was I hoping to change anyone's deeply-rooted philosophical beliefs.

In all seriousness. I really wonder why the liberals are so anti-gun? Is it a fear of themselves that is greater than the fear of others who may do them harm? Have they lived such a sheltered life never to have seen the raw savagery their fellow man can possess. Or, the opposite... they've seen the savagery and are afraid of what it will bring out in them.

While my question was hypothetical; I was trying to find, ascertain and am genuinely curious - is there no scenario by which they will pick up a gun to defend themselves or their families. I would really like to know the answer to this.

Personally.... I would wait for said perp to break down the door( that would be a hoot to watch by the way) at which time his crotch would turn to pink mist... if further persuasion was needed after he got a look down at the mess.. . just in case you are interested. I live in the country and do not expect any help from our county sheriffs for a couple hours... "Hypothetically" of course

Perhaps you like so many self described conservatives find your definition of who is a liberal.. needs some work.

[Southern_Man 0]

BIGUN

While my question was hypothetical; I was trying to find, ascertain and am genuinely curious - is there no scenario by which they will pick up a gun to defend themselves or their families. I would really like to know the answer to this.

Deeply improbably hypotheticals are a really poor basis for moral or ethical reasoning.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[BIGUN 1,068]

billvon

>In all seriousness. I really wonder why the liberals are so anti-gun?

I'm more liberal than I am conservative, and I'm not anti-gun any more than I am anti-jackhammer. I just don't think a gun (or a jackhammer) is the one ideal solution to all problems.

Agreed. Thanks.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[BIGUN 1,068]

Amazon

Perhaps you like so many self described conservatives find your definition of who is a liberal.. needs some work.

You are about as much liberal as I am conservative. We both kinda talk it, but are closet Libertarians.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[SkyDekker 1,138]

BIGUN

I know what you said is important to you. I just don't know how to address it. Am I supposed to add a variable called "donut shop" within two minutes to the equation?

It is a joke. Maybe not a funny one, but then I never did make it on Second City.

[davjohns 1]

If I have a gun, I can get a cell phone...probably the one that currently belongs to the guy who will arrive in ten minutes.

One poster noted that this scenario ignores the potential risks of gun ownership. I will point out that I can lock up firearms, educate my family, remove the guns if someone in my house is suicidal, etc. All of the issues with gun ownership are related to the owner, not the gun.

No matter how responsible I am, I can't mitigate the bad guy without a way to neutralize him.

Today, I can generally take on one to three people who enter my house with malice in their hearts. I don't NEED a gun. But I'm not short-sighted. I will not always be as capable as I am today, and not everyone is as capable as I am. I want others to be able to take care of themselves as well. And even though I may prevail, I may not survive. A gun changes the equation in my favor. I like the odds being in my favor.

Still, if you argue the issue of citizens owning guns based solely on the issue of self-defense or defense of others, the issue is up for grabs. You will note my right to keep and bear arms is not predicated on self-defense, sporting use, or other debatable issues. It is based on the idea that the People are the ultimate holders of power and must be able to replace an oppressive government through force when and if necessary and any form of government can and will become corrupted. THAT issue is not debatable. We may not like it, but history has proven it.

Then, there's the ultimate argument. If you manage to outlaw my firearms, you have to come get them...and I'm still armed. Good luck with that.

In the end, I am one of the very few people I trust with a gun. But I respect that you might have the same stance. You stay out of my rights and I'll stay out of yours.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

billvon

>In all seriousness. I really wonder why the liberals are so anti-gun?

I'm more liberal than I am conservative, and I'm not anti-gun any more than I am anti-jackhammer. I just don't think a gun (or a jackhammer) is the one ideal solution to all problems.

I'm so confused. I've ignored this forum for months. I dropped back in and this is the second post by Bill that I agree with.

Who hijacked his account?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

>In all seriousness. I really wonder why the liberals are so anti-gun?

I'm more liberal than I am conservative, and I'm not anti-gun any more than I am anti-jackhammer. I just don't think a gun (or a jackhammer) is the one ideal solution to all problems.

Clearly - a SAWZALL rocks.

nor is there a really good replacement for a 12 pound sledge (except maybe a 15 pound sledge)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

DanG

then the scenario is that you are in a remote cabin with your family with no hope for outside assistance. A crazed murderer enters the cabin, intent on killing you and your family. There is a loaded shotgun on the table. What do you do?

I strawman the argument as follows:

Background:

1 - Hopefully, I'd bring my own shotgun if there was one, AND

2 - If it was loaded, it would be because I loaded it, and if my family was there, I certainly would never leave it unattended and loaded on the table.

3 - Therefore, the presence of a strange shotgun indicates something is amiss and I would have left long ago ..... or at least have unloaded the shotgun and put it in the corner.



Option one - leave and find a different cabin - one less weird. That abandoned shotgun is a warning sign.

Option two: --I stay and unload the gun--. Well, now it's not useful in the scenario, so now I think my only option with the intruder would be to offer him free health care in order to disorient him for a bit on the application website while my family and I sneak out a window.


alternate: I'm not sure what would surprise me more. a sudden crazed intruder, or the mysterious and simultaneous materialization of a loaded shotgun on my table. I might just take a quick photo and upload to facebook.......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

So, in short, there are as many silly assumptions in my scenario as there are in the OP's.

I forgot to mention, in my scenario you are the Kents from Smallville, Kansas. Your son is Superman. Now what do you do, hotshot? Or are you a superhero-o-phobe?

- Dan G

[rehmwa 2]

(actually in the first post I would also have accepted - look for the hidden camera. you clearly are in a stupid reality secret show)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,144]

Maybe, to put a skydiver spin to the question, you should have a poll asking if people are liberal or conservative, use an RSL, an AAD, and/or carry a gun.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)