tkhayes 126 #126 August 15, 2014 QuoteCops have the right to make a split second decision to take the life of another human being when presented with the immediate danger to their life by that human. Yes they do, and they should also have the responsibility of paying for their mistakes when they take the life of someone who actually was NOT an immediate danger to their lives. It's 'stand your ground' to the nth degree. I am not interested in people 'feeling imminent threat' and then being able to take someone's life because 'they felt it'. I am interested in real threats being addressed, not what you 'feel'.... why? Because you do not have, nor should you ever be granted god-like powers to make such life and death decisions based on your 'feelings'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #127 August 15, 2014 Quote Do you, the media, the cops( under investigation) have all the facts at this point? we do in fact know that he was unarmed. we know that and that has not ever been disputed. If there was a knife, a gun, a baseball bat or even a fucking soda can to threaten the cop with, we would have heard about. So no, we do not have EVERY SINGLE FACT surrounding this case, but what we do know for a fact is that a cop shot a unarmed citizen in the face. We do actually know THOSE FACTS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #128 August 15, 2014 http://kut.org/post/how-much-it-costs-austin-every-time-swat-teams-roll-out knock off your bullshit about somehow swat teams costing fuck all. If they cost as little as you say, then why did it take me 5 seconds to find dozens of articles about the cost of swat teams? Swat teams today are far different from 1965. mostly due to the sheer number of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #129 August 15, 2014 QuoteYour hand picking multiple posts out of context and trying to make them literal. No, actually we are hand-picking multiple literal events and posting that information as facts. You seem to have trouble separating what is really happening from what you think was happening in 1965 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #130 August 15, 2014 Well, given that 3 independent witnesses have matching stories while the police have been unable to match stories adds a bit of doubt, wouldn't you agree? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #131 August 15, 2014 Quoteknock off your bullshit about somehow swat teams costing fuck all. If they cost as little as you say, then why did it take me 5 seconds to find dozens of articles about the cost of swat teams? Where the fuck did I EVER say swat teams are cheap? I have in fact shown that if they did not get their $1 mraps from surplus your local tax dollars would be paying for a 180,000 BearCat! More of your loony bullshit TK please go away. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #132 August 15, 2014 You went on about $1 machines and such, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #133 August 15, 2014 Do you know that departments documented use of force continuum? Do you know that you do not have to meet force with force you can go a few levels up or down. Do any of you even know that that means? Someone does not have to be armed to be shot...... Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #134 August 15, 2014 Yea http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/30/florida-sheriff-defends-acquisition-surplus-mrap/ You pay $1 and the cost of shipping and get a million dollar vehicle from the military surplus, vs buying a 180-300K BearCat from a private company. What do you think makes better fiscal sense?? QuoteThe Northwest Florida Daily News reports that the Walton County Sheriff's office bought the mine-resistant and ambush-resistant MRAP for just the $2,500 cost of delivery. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #135 August 15, 2014 right, so you are saying that SWAT teams are cheap then? That is what I read into it the first time you said it.... makes no difference to the point of the argument...has little to do with the militarization of the police forces unnecessarily, or the subsequent abuses that they dish out, or the cost of operating them at taxpayer expense, or the excessive overuse of them, which you have incorrectly indicated is not worse than in 1965. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #136 August 15, 2014 Jesus Christ......I never said they were cheap.....Someone mentioned military vehicles being gotten by swat teams and how can they justify that purchase, and I defended that purchase by letting them know they are not paying for them, they pay the shipping and get it free. The problem is this thread has gotten so long people like you are picking off one post and coming in here and trolling. Lock this bitch im done explaining myself to you Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #137 August 15, 2014 AnvilbrotherAT THAT POINT WE STARTED DISCUSSING ... Oh well, in that case, this thread is now about pie. Please stay on topic.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #138 August 15, 2014 Looks like things have really changed in Ferguson: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/14/with-highway-patrol-hugs-and-kisses-replace-tear-gas-in-ferguson/"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #139 August 15, 2014 AnvilbrotherWhat the fuck do you want the police/da/courts to do, release partial info, evidence, taint the jury pool even worse? uh, you mean what they do all the fucking time with civilians defendants? You're shoveling an unbelievable amount of bullshit today. And stop pretending that offering an alternative to the current narrative of executing an unarmed kid who dared to walk in the street would taint the jury pool. When the BART cop shot a cuffed suspect in the back while he was on the ground, they had no problem talking about the details. Quote You dont talk till you know all the story and have all the evidence. You release a statement that there was a shooting involving an officer, and a civilian, and the the nearest department, or higher up department(state police etc) is handling the investigation. Well, don't be shocked that rioting continues until then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #140 August 15, 2014 Why do whites run mostly black town? http://www.cnn.com/ This is the headline right now on CNN.com. I'm sorry but this is sensationalizing the issue. The answer is simple; because until 4 days ago the black population in Ferguson didn't care who ran their government. But you won't find that in the CNN story. You'll find statistics about white v. black crime, hiring, arrests etc.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #141 August 15, 2014 AnvilbrotherYou do realize that since post #41 we started talking about police having a military mentality, and have hardly talked about the riots right? My US. VS them was NEVER about race, color, sex etc. It has always been US=Police/THEM=Potential bad guys, and anything that could harm you. Its a saying about being cautious of your surrounding and, not to be taken as US vs Blacks, mexicans etc that alot of you are thinking it is. I believe it is due to the fact that this thread started as a black riot thread and evolved into a police mentality thread. I know exactly what we're talking about. It is becoming increasingly obvious that you just don't get why non-police people find the us vs them (them being ALL non-police) mindset dangerous, just like AggieDave didn't get why non-police people found the sheep/sheepdog mindset dangerous and offensive. So here's a tip - stop assuming I don't get your position and take my posts at face value. It'll make things a lot easier.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #142 August 15, 2014 Oh, by the way, since we're discussing stereotypes... Quoteover a shoting ...thanks for keeping that one alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #143 August 15, 2014 It seems to have de-escalated instantly. Amazing what a little respect for humans can do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #144 August 15, 2014 normissIt seems to have de-escalated instantly. Amazing what a little respect for humans can do.\ I was watching the news this morning and had the exact same thought. Nice to see some people finally started using their head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMK 3 #145 August 15, 2014 Yes, also agree. US Police Departments would be far better served with training in psychology, sociology & negotiation skills than fucking around around at gun ranges trying to get "nice groupings" with their Glock. Something as simple as removing your sunglasses, so that they can see your eyes when talking to people helps greatly to diffuse an encounter. However, there are far more "Eric Cartman" style cops in their mirrored shades barking "You will respect my authoritiiii". Having lived in Europe, US and Asia, I've seen a range of policing styles. The US "Joe Commando" shit doesn't work. Though there are professional LEO's in the US, as a group, I have little to no respect for them. Maybe this event can serve as a catalyst to start changing the beat/taze/shoot culture of US policing."Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #146 August 15, 2014 I think you're seeing that people of all socioeconomic and racial backgrounds don't trust or even like cops. Youtube has become a fantastic resource for reasons why. Cops don't work for you or me. They work for politicians. A primary role for police is revenue agent. Which is why you can read about the abuses of seizure laws. Or why some towns and counties are notable as ticket havens. Cops also are not on your side. Cops will lie through their teeth as an investigative technique. They'll piss you off and put you in fear to get you talking. Cops are also now militarized. Shock and awe is the preferred technique. No-knock SWAT service of warrants for selling vegetables without a business license are the thing to do. Many of us do not have much sympathy for armed government agents in body armor hassling a person for taking video of police "investigating" a person on a public street. Taking the video and erasing it. And police and prosecutors using wiretap laws to preosecute people for it. No, not all police are dicks and to be mistrusted. Just like not all black youths in the inner city are to be mistrusted. Cops use mistrust as a protective mechanism. To the public, mistrust of police offers no such protection from them. Mind your own business? You might get mugged and police won't stop it. So you get a CCW to protect yourself. Then you get stopped and frisked and jailed for carrying a concealed weapon. True, you may have had that CCW legally issued but, well, this City has a rule against it. Sorry you didn't know that. Felony. Why don't people like cops? Because are no longer seen as protecting and serving the citizens. Obtaining MRAPs for use against the population does nothing but reinforce that belief. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #147 August 15, 2014 kelpdiver In our current case, the PD has basically lawyered up and won't even name the shooter. They have now. http://news.msn.com/us/turmoil-tear-gas-give-way-to-hope-in-ferguson"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #148 August 15, 2014 They have also given conflicting accounts of what happened. I think this is version #3. I know they first said he was stopped for walking in the street. They better doctor the reports and find some cigars with a quickness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #149 August 15, 2014 Andy9o8Oh, by the way, since we're discussing stereotypes... Quoteover a shoting ...thanks for keeping that one alive. I thought maybe it was this.... http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/03/61/05/987496/4/622x350.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #150 August 15, 2014 normissA good portion of those swat teams were used during those ugly civil uprisings too. Had to give out a good beat down! Given the numbers still forcibly stuck in inner cities, it appears it worked! woot. not just SWAT (from Wikipedia) To help end the disturbance, Governor George W. Romney ordered the Michigan National Guard into Detroit, and President Lyndon B. Johnson sent in Army troops. so maybe now the local LEO are well armed they won't need the NG or Army's helpYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
