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JohnnyMarko

Minimum Wage

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So why the fuck did I spend all that money all college and take an entry level position at an oil and gas company to make (possibly) less than a McDonalds worker?

And yea, I'm going to pull the "it's called 'minimum wage' not 'livable wage'" card, because I truly believe it.

My generation is fucked...truly fucked...

Oh well, guess I'll just get married and have kids and try and support them off my $15 an hour at McDonalds like everyone else.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/05/15/the-fight-for-a-global-minimum-wage/

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Most at McDonald's can't put a burger together properly. Spent $8.00 at McDonald's yesterday only to find, upon opening the box, that half of the "meat" was hanging off of the bun. The cheese was hanging off of the other side and, melted to the box. About ten pickle slices were piled atop each other and, there was more lettuce than burger in the box.

If a person cannot build a proper burger... maybe burger building is not for them. $15.00 an hour??????? I think not!
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

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I'm more troubled that people think they can get a proper burger at McDeath in the first place.
I honestly cannot recall the last time I went to one - or any other fast food place.

Automated ordering stations are going to replace humans.

Want more than a minimum wage job?
Get more than minimum wage skills.

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I believe that as the minimum wage goes up, the ROI for automating will become more attractive. Robotics will be able to build the perfect burger. We will see employees at these fast food places making more, but there will be far fewer live bodies employed.


I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.

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JohnnyMarko

So why the fuck did I spend all that money all college and take an entry level position at an oil and gas company to make (possibly) less than a McDonalds worker?



The difference is that your job has a potential for progression. Work hard and minimum wage will soon be a distant memory. The Maccas worker - not so much.
Never try to eat more than you can lift

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seedy

I believe that as the minimum wage goes up, the ROI for automating will become more attractive. Robotics will be able to build the perfect burger. We will see employees at these fast food places making more, but there will be far fewer live bodies employed.



Robotics are already building burgers in frozen food plants. I have worked on this equipment already. My occupation is automating things. My last few years have been dedicated to developing automation for carton erection, carton filling, robotic palletizing/de-palletizing, and automated warehousing for a fortune 50 snack food company. The technology is getting cheaper and cheaper. If you would have told me 10 years ago that I could buy the kinds of controllers for less than $100 that we can now (with free programming software by the way) I would never have believed it. These people are quickly demanding themselves out of jobs. That's OK I guess, it guarantees me job security and higher wages. :P

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So why the fuck did I spend all that money all college and take an entry level position at an oil and gas company to make (possibly) less than a McDonalds worker?



You're making less than $15 an hour as a college graduate at an oil company?

Get another job.

- Dan G

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JohnnyMarko

So why the fuck did I spend all that money all college and take an entry level position at an oil and gas company to make (possibly) less than a McDonalds worker?



What's wrong cupcake? Not getting the entitlements you clearly feel you are entitled to? How old are you? Early to mid 20s? Grow the #### up ... Do you think when I was in my early to mid 20s I was rolling in the dough? No I as an entry level worker and was being paid entry level wages. Only as I gained more experience (all part of growing up) and became more valuable to my employer(s) was I able to earn a higher wage.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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CanuckInUSA

***So why the fuck did I spend all that money all college and take an entry level position at an oil and gas company to make (possibly) less than a McDonalds worker?



What's wrong cupcake? Not getting the entitlements you clearly feel you are entitled to? How old are you? Early to mid 20s? Grow the #### up ... Do you think when I was in my early to mid 20s I was rolling in the dough? No I as an entry level worker and was being paid entry level wages. Only as I gained more experience (all part of growing up) and became more valuable to my employer(s) was I able to earn a higher wage.

I'm not entitled to shit...I'm 24, had a job since I was 15, paid my way through college in cash (no student loans), and now in an entry level position getting by and saving for my future.

My point is why should the high school dropout with 4 kids and no car living with his parents make at minimum what I make? Where is the incentive for young adults (or shitty adults) to try and achieve better when they can make $15 without having to work for it? Makes people like myself feel pretty useless.

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ill tell you exactly where the incentive/motivation is.

keep working shitty jobs for shitty wages (i dont care what your educational/experience background is), and eventually you are gonna get sick of living that life style.

that was motivation enough for me, at 29 years old, to join the coast guard active duty, so that i could gain trade skills and free education.

i have milked tution assistance as much as i was able in the last 5 years, i have the biggest job interview of my life today in the electrical field, and i have 36 month of post 911 GI bill to supplement my chosen career, for free.

i got so sick of making pennies that i got out of cooking for a living, and used the military as a stepping stone towards a better pathway.

its all about how comfortable you want or dont want to be.
good luck
gravity brings me down.........

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JohnnyMarko

So why the fuck did I spend all that money all college and take an entry level position at an oil and gas company to make (possibly) less than a McDonalds worker?

And yea, I'm going to pull the "it's called 'minimum wage' not 'livable wage'" card, because I truly believe it.

My generation is fucked...truly fucked...

Oh well, guess I'll just get married and have kids and try and support them off my $15 an hour at McDonalds like everyone else.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/05/15/the-fight-for-a-global-minimum-wage/



$15.00 per hour is a JOKE. Hell they should be demanding at minimum $20 to $25 per hour. As Sheila Jackson Lee would put it, "I'm Outraged">:(

I'm sure the American people are looking forward to buying their burgers at the incredible low/low price of 15-20 dollars each. Take the family out to Outback Stake House for a mere $50 to $60 dollar per plate, that's a damn good IDEA...

Hell while were at it, lets fund these Bozoo's with a NEW CAR, paid Child Care, and fund whatever they believe is a basic human right. I'm sure everyone pissing and moaning on this blog can afford it.

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You seem to think people get paid according to some system that takes into account things which simply are not.

Beyond a minimum wage, people are not paid according to ANYTHING other than what value the employer sees in paying for a particular service. You are simply a meat machine. If they could buy the meat machine (or soon one made from metal) to do that job at a lower price they would.

The problem you have is NOT the minimum wage, but your employer and how he values the JOB (not training, education or years), but the JOB you're doing for him.

That's it. There is simply no more to it.

Your EMPLOYER is paying you what he feels is what the JOB is worth. Not you. The JOB.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

You seem to think people get paid according to some system that takes into account things which simply are not.

Beyond a minimum wage, people are not paid according to ANYTHING other than what value the employer sees in paying for a particular service. You are simply a meat machine. If they could buy the meat machine to do that job at a lower price they would.

The problem you have is NOT the minimum wage, but your employer and how he values the JOB (not training, education or years), but the JOB you're doing for him.

That's it. There is simply no more to it.

Your EMPLOYER is paying you what he feels is what the JOB is worth. Not you. The JOB.



So burger flipping and potato frying is worth at least $15 right out of the gate?

Did I complain about my wage? Don't think I said I should earn more than I am right now, it's fair for the work I do.

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Every young person thinks they know it all (no different from the days when yours truly was a young buck). I know this, because I've been there. I've done that. It wasn't all that long ago. Trust me, when you get older you will look back and say to yourself "Man when I was 24 I didn't know Jack". Every young person faces challenges. This isn't some new phenomenon. It may be hard for you to understand this. But when you get older you will understand what I am referring to.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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JohnnyMarko

So burger flipping and potato frying is worth at least $15 right out of the gate?



To some employers, "burger flipping" is in fact worth more than the current minimum wage. To other employers, they feel that the current minimum wage isn't low enough.

I'll tell you this though, no burgers are sold without being flipped by somebody. None. AND if you flip and sell enough burgers, then $15 per hour is a trivial increase to the bottom line.

It has ZERO to do with the general concept of flipping burgers.

So, tell me where this $15 minimum wage actually is. I'm looking at the minimum wages across the country and I'm not seeing it anywhere. Yes, it's a great shoot for the moon point the people are fighting for, but they know damn well they'll be lucky to get a tiny fraction of it.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

***So burger flipping and potato frying is worth at least $15 right out of the gate?



To some employers, "burger flipping" is in fact worth more than the current minimum wage. To other employers, they feel than the current minimum wage isn't low enough.

I'll tell you this though, no burgers are sold without being flipped by somebody. None. AND if you flip and sell enough burgers, then $15 per hour is a trivial increase to the bottom line.

It has ZERO to do with the general concept of flipping burgers.

So, tell me where this $15 minimum wage is. I'm looking at the minimum wages across the country and I'm not seeing it anywhere.

No where. But there seems to be enough workers world wide to strike until they get their $15 an hour.

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JohnnyMarko

But there seems to be enough workers world wide to strike until they get their $15 an hour.



Nope. Not going to happen for several reasons but mostly because the wages/benefits in one country do not equate to the wages/benefits in all others. Hell, we don't even have a universal minimum wage in the US. It varies wildly from state to state and that is even including a Federal mandate. The highest you're going to find in the US right now hovers around the $10.10 concept, but that is absolutely not universal.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/28/us-usa-minimumwage-connecticut-idUSBREA2R04C20140328
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

***But there seems to be enough workers world wide to strike until they get their $15 an hour.



Nope. Not going to happen for several reasons but mostly because the wages/benefits in one country do not equate to the wages/benefits in all others. Hell, we don't even have a universal minimum wage in the US. It varies wildly from state to state and that is even including a Federal mandate.

I agree...this thread was more of a rant than a "Democrats are ruining the economy"/"Republicans don't care about the poor"...It is absurd to me someone wants $15 an hour to work at a McDonalds to assemble a "burger" that looks, well, I haven't been in a while but I'm sure they still look horrible.

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The "burger flipping" analogy is a bad one for me personally, since I think we need to have places like McDonald's incentivized (sp? even a word?) to keep people OUT of them. SO, if increasing the minimum wage there jacks the prices up, which then encourages individuals and families to consider other options for their dinnertime dollars (such as, gasp, a more nutritious dinner at home) then so be it.

WRT increasing the minimum wage in general: I don't know that this needs to be taken to the extreme, but we do need to provide even the most basic workers with a wage that is enough to keep them on the job. Wages are so low right now, and public assistance programs are so fat right now, that it really makes sense to a lot of people just to stay home and live off the dole, rather than spend 40 hours of their week working a shit job to bring home basically the same "pay." So from where I'm sitting (gutshot middle class) if raising the minimum wage costs me a little because I have to pay more for products, but saves me the same amount or more in not having to support people who aren't working, then so be it.

So: Increase the minimum wage to a decent (but not insanely high) wage, increase support and access for postsecondary education (i.e. the community college system), and start cutting public assistance programs until the path of least resistance becomes improving yourself and working, instead of sitting on the couch and living off my money.

Elvisio "harumph" Rodriguez

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>So why the fuck did I spend all that money all college and take an entry level
>position at an oil and gas company to make (possibly) less than a McDonalds
>worker?

Because soon you will be making more than a McDonald's worker, perhaps?

>Oh well, guess I'll just get married and have kids and try and support them off
>my $15 an hour at McDonalds like everyone else.

If you think that's a wise career choice and you want to do that, go for it.

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My thinking on this subject has changed recently. I see business owners who are flush with dollars and not paying their employees very well. I understand that it will probably raise prices and may cost some folks their jobs when the businesses figure out that robots can do the job better, but robots aren't cheap and many owners will suck it up and pay a living wage. Henry Ford understood this and was roundly criticized for paying his autoworkers more than what the other auto makers were paying.

We are stuck in some kind of wage/price timewarp, a wormhole if you will that goes back to the mid 80's. People still want to lease a car for $199 month. We have low/no interest rates even though we print money like confetti. Time for a change.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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quade

You seem to think people get paid according to some system that takes into account things which simply are not.

Beyond a minimum wage, people are not paid according to ANYTHING other than what value the employer sees in paying for a particular service. You are simply a meat machine. If they could buy the meat machine (or soon one made from metal) to do that job at a lower price they would.

The problem you have is NOT the minimum wage, but your employer and how he values the JOB (not training, education or years), but the JOB you're doing for him.

That's it. There is simply no more to it.

Your EMPLOYER is paying you what he feels is what the JOB is worth. Not you. The JOB.




not really if an employer decided that the JOB was only worth $10 an hour but the guy down the street is paying $16 for that JOB that employer would have a hard time filling the position
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

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Rick

***Your EMPLOYER is paying you what he feels is what the JOB is worth. Not you. The JOB.


not really if an employer decided that the JOB was only worth $10 an hour but the guy down the street is paying $16 for that JOB that employer would have a hard time filling the position

At which point the employer gets to make a decision; how much is it worth to ME to fill that JOB? If I don't fill that JOB will I go out of business?

If the answer is paying more to fill the JOB to stay in business, then it's worth it to the employer to fill the JOB.

Notice this has ZERO to do with how much training, or time the employee spent in his life preparing for the job. It ALL about how much the employer is willing to pay to fill it. If the employer doesn't feel it's worth paying the locally going rate for the job, then it's his decision to not fill it and risk going out of business. Nobody is holding a gun to his head.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

******Your EMPLOYER is paying you what he feels is what the JOB is worth. Not you. The JOB.


not really if an employer decided that the JOB was only worth $10 an hour but the guy down the street is paying $16 for that JOB that employer would have a hard time filling the position

At which point the employer gets to make a decision; how much is it worth to ME to fill that JOB? If I don't fill that JOB will I go out of business?

If the answer is paying more to fill the JOB to stay in business, then it's worth it to the employer to fill the JOB.

Notice this has ZERO to do with how much training, or time the employee spent in his life preparing for the job. It ALL about how much the employer is willing to pay to fill it. If the employer doesn't feel it's worth paying the locally going rate for the job, then it's his decision to not fill it and risk going out of business. Nobody is holding a gun to his head.


I just think you are oversimplifying. Of course more training and experience transfer into more value for the employer(and higher salaries to employee).
You can get anybody to sweep a floor so lower value. Finding a certified welder or an electrician with years of experience is going to cost an employer more money.
The job and the market drive the value. It is not just an arbitrary number pulled out of an employers ass.
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

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