so now that the government can mandate that we buy something . . .

[DanG 1]

Quote

So, if you can't even pay the tax, does the IRS garnish your wages and seize your passport so you can't flee the country?

If you can't pay the tax, then you likely qualify for fully subsidized insurance, hance no tax.

If you can't pay the tax and you don't want free health insurance, then you are stupid.

- Dan G

[DaVinci 0]

kallend

The government already mandates that you buy seat belts and air bags if you buy a car.

Yet, they do not require you to buy a car or pay a penalty.

Your comparison would be that IF you buy a HC plan then it would have to cover certain things. But in this case they are doing that AND making you buy a car.

[masterrig 1]

davjohns

***>no, it mandates that the car manufacturers insert them into any cars they are allowed
>to sell in this country.

Right, and the government mandates that the health insurance you buy has certain minimums as well.

As a consumer protection feature, I'm not particularly worried about minimum standards. Let's face it, nobody reads the contract and fewer understand it. So, minimum standards level the field between the consumer and the corporation.

However, that's not all this act did, is it? In fact, that's a drop in the bucket.

As I understand it, this law is something like 1200 pages. How many Americans have a copy or access to it? What really concerns me about this whole thing is, our president comes across as more of a dictator rather than a president. He is taking away our freedom of choice. He's forcing people to buy something at a higher rate than they were paying previously. He has claimed several things in regard to his healthcare law but the reality of it is, he lied to us. Now, he's scrambling to get the American public to believe in him and his B.S. healthcare law. To me, his healthcare law is more like a 'shake-down'.


Chuck

[billvon 2,400]

>So, if you can't even pay the tax, does the IRS garnish your wages and seize
>your passport so you can't flee the country?

If you CAN'T pay the tax you don't get "garnished." You are covered under the low income (under the poverty line) provisions of the ACA.

If you DON'T WANT TO pay the tax then your wages might get garnished, passport seized etc. (as with any other taxes you don't want to pay)

[rushmc 18]

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590/text

It was and is desiged to fail
Reason?

Heads us toward single payer

Obama is on record saying as much

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[masterrig 1]

"Bringing down the cost of health care coverage."

I think, that's my very favorite item. Also one big lie.
I wonder, just how many of our representatives actually read the entire bill, before voting on it. I'm sure, they had one of their aids read it and then give them the 'Cliff Notes' version. The only reason I could see that that bill was passed in the first place was so our representatives could get their riders attached knowing Obama would simply sign it.


Chuck

[DrewEckhardt 0]

masterrig

The only reason I could see that that bill was passed in the first place was so our representatives could get their riders attached knowing Obama would simply sign it.

ACA passed because PhRMA spent money and allegedly worked with the White House to pass it, a lot like they did with Medicare Part D.

Failing to do their best to keep it would violate their member company executives fiduciary duty to their share holders.

[masterrig 1]

DrewEckhardt

***
The only reason I could see that that bill was passed in the first place was so our representatives could get their riders attached knowing Obama would simply sign it.

ACA passed because PhRMA spent money and allegedly worked with the White House to pass it, just like they did with Medicare Part D.

Failing to do their best to keep it would violate their member company executives fiduciary duty to their share holders.

That's enlightening!!


Chuck

[Kennedy 0]

kallend

The government already mandates that you buy seat belts and air bags if you buy a car.

Do they charge you a penalty tax if you don't buy a car?

Terrible analogy, professor.

If you want to use cars, then the ACA requires all Americans to purchase a vehicle, and is must have certain features. Failure to purchase a vehicle means you pay an annually increasing tax each year. It also requires immediately taking the car you love to the scrap yard for compaction if it doesn't have what the feds think all good cars should have.

So are you OK with the government requiring citizens to purchase things or face taxes for failure to purchase? I seem to recall you being against a Kennesaw, GA ordinance (failure to abide by which did not even cause tax penalties).

In your mind, what should the feds be allowed to tax you for choosing not to purchase what they want you to purchase? You're on record approving healthcare and disapproving firearms. How do you draw a reasonable line? Or is it your personal preference and the tyranny of "for your own good" / "the greater good".

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[rehmwa 2]

Kennedy

***The government already mandates that you buy seat belts and air bags if you buy a car.

Do they charge you a penalty tax if you don't buy a car?

Terrible analogy, professor.

If you want to use cars, then the ACA requires all Americans to purchase a vehicle, and is must have certain features.

You must purchase:

heated seats
backup cameras
airbags (side and front)
hybrid
halogen lights that turn

but you don't need Sirius radio
you do need TomTom - even if you have nav on your phone


for the children

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[davjohns 1]

Actually, I just made up a study that shows neon yellow cars are in 86% fewer head-on collisions compared to other colors. So, all cars should be required to be neon yellow...for the children.

Oh! And speed limiters. Nobody needs to go over 70mph, so cars shouldn't be able to go any faster.

Driver's license smart cards to activate the car so we know who was driving it. Tracking devices tied to the GPS. Exceed the speed limit? The GPS notifies the government computer which issues your citation and texts the citation to your cell phone...and automatically deducts it from your bank account.

It's fine if you don't want to sign up for this system...but there's a tax, of course. If you don't pay it, your smart card driver's license is deactivated and your car is confiscated (you don't need it anymore) and sold to pay the indebtedness.

I could just have all kinds of fun with this way of thinking. Very soon, I'll be inserting monitoring devices in your livingroom for your safety and convenience. Maybe we'll call the folks who monitor it the 'Thought Police'. Has a nice ring to it, no?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[sfzombie13 307]

several things you (and everyone else) is missing. obama is not acting like a dictator, congress passed the law (2 houses i believe?) and it was ruled constitutional. dictators don't act like that.
and the flip side: it is not good for all, there were multiple lies, and almost two thirds of the population don't like it and don't want it. how do we get it repealed?

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[turtlespeed 212]

DanG

Quote

So, if you can't even pay the tax, does the IRS garnish your wages and seize your passport so you can't flee the country?

If you can't pay the tax, then you likely qualify for fully subsidized insurance, hance no tax.

If you can't pay the tax and you don't want free health insurance, then you are stupid.

Or . . . maybe you just don't want to accept insurance paid for by the works and labors of other people. Maybe, JUST maybe, there are still some out there with a little bit of pride and are unwilling to leech.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

DaVinci

***The government already mandates that you buy seat belts and air bags if you buy a car.

Yet, they do not require you to buy a car or pay a penalty.

Your comparison would be that IF you buy a HC plan then it would have to cover certain things. But in this case they are doing that AND making you buy a car.

Yep - a NICE car too.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rehmwa 2]

turtlespeed

Yep - a NICE car too.

Look, the poor and the middle class NEED to have what THEY require as a MINIMUM level of coverage they are REQUIRED to pay for.

And who is better to set a MINIMUM bar for everyone, than a bunch of entitled people that make 6, 7 or 8 figure incomes?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

Quote

Or . . . maybe you just don't want to accept insurance paid for by the works and labors of other people. Maybe, JUST maybe, there are still some out there with a little bit of pride and are unwilling to leech.

Right, and do you think these same upstanding people will refuse medical treatment when they get hit by a bus? Ya know, 'cause of their pride and all.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

DanG

Quote

Or . . . maybe you just don't want to accept insurance paid for by the works and labors of other people. Maybe, JUST maybe, there are still some out there with a little bit of pride and are unwilling to leech.

Right, and do you think these same upstanding people will refuse medical treatment when they get hit by a bus? Ya know, 'cause of their pride and all.

We paid for them already
Now it is just worse

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Know what else is (not) funny

Many of those turtle posted about DID pay their own way!

But now even Obama's poster child enrollee can't afford the policy
Go figure

I am sorry, but one just can NOT make this shit up!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/19/obamacare-backer-denied-tax-credit/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[masterrig 1]

sfzombie13

several things you (and everyone else) is missing. obama is not acting like a dictator, congress passed the law (2 houses i believe?) and it was ruled constitutional. dictators don't act like that.
and the flip side: it is not good for all, there were multiple lies, and almost two thirds of the population don't like it and don't want it. how do we get it repealed?

It came across to me that Obama was really applying pressure to Senators and Congressmen to get HIS bill passed. Maybe he's not acting like a dictator but more like a bully.
The people need to contact their representatives and tell them, they don't like it and don't want it. Public marches across the country and DC, won't hurt! I still don't understand how the president can force people to buy a certain product.


Chuck

[kelpdiver 2]

masterrig

It came across to me that Obama was really applying pressure to Senators and Congressmen to get HIS bill passed. Maybe he's not acting like a dictator but more like a bully.

Did you know there is a position called the House Whip? The title is exactly what is sounds like - that person's job is to keep their people in line.

Party leadership applies pressure to its membership to get legislation passed (or killed). If you don't play along, you find yourself on the subcommittee for basket weaving. This has been true since the 18th Century.

[masterrig 1]

kelpdiver

***
It came across to me that Obama was really applying pressure to Senators and Congressmen to get HIS bill passed. Maybe he's not acting like a dictator but more like a bully.

Did you know there is a position called the House Whip? The title is exactly what is sounds like - that person's job is to keep their people in line.

Party leadership applies pressure to its membership to get legislation passed (or killed). If you don't play along, you find yourself on the subcommittee for basket weaving. This has been true since the 18th Century.

Thanks for that!


Chuck

[rushmc 18]

masterrig

***several things you (and everyone else) is missing. obama is not acting like a dictator, congress passed the law (2 houses i believe?) and it was ruled constitutional. dictators don't act like that.
and the flip side: it is not good for all, there were multiple lies, and almost two thirds of the population don't like it and don't want it. how do we get it repealed?

It came across to me that Obama was really applying pressure to Senators and Congressmen to get HIS bill passed. Maybe he's not acting like a dictator but more like a bully.
The people need to contact their representatives and tell them, they don't like it and don't want it. Public marches across the country and DC, won't hurt! I still don't understand how the president can force people to buy a certain product.


ChuckActually
There is a law suit that challenges the ACA law
This suit is based on a tax bill not being created in the House as says it is supposed to be by the Constitution

The Senate, as admitted by Dirty Harry Reid, took an not confrentaiton bill sent to them by the House, stripped all the content and repaced it with what is the ACA today

Going to be interesting to watch

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[masterrig 1]

rushmc

******several things you (and everyone else) is missing. obama is not acting like a dictator, congress passed the law (2 houses i believe?) and it was ruled constitutional. dictators don't act like that.
and the flip side: it is not good for all, there were multiple lies, and almost two thirds of the population don't like it and don't want it. how do we get it repealed?

It came across to me that Obama was really applying pressure to Senators and Congressmen to get HIS bill passed. Maybe he's not acting like a dictator but more like a bully.
The people need to contact their representatives and tell them, they don't like it and don't want it. Public marches across the country and DC, won't hurt! I still don't understand how the president can force people to buy a certain product.


ChuckActually
There is a law suit that challenges the ACA law
This suit is based on a tax bill not being created in the House as says it is supposed to be by the Constitution

The Senate, as admitted by Dirty Harry Reid, took an not confrentaiton bill sent to them by the House, stripped all the content and repaced it with what is the ACA today

Going to be interesting to watch

Yessir! It will be interesting to watch. I think the whole thing needs to be dumped in the 'circular file'.


Chuck

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

If you want to use cars, then the ACA requires all Americans to purchase a vehicle, and is must have certain features.

Yep, like all cars must child seats even if you are 80 or don't have kids and don't plan on having kids.

[Stumpy 256]

DaVinci

If you want to use cars, then the ACA requires all Americans to purchase a vehicle, and is must have certain features.

If you are going to use this increasingly shitty analogy, then the end of this sentence would say "instead of stealing them off you which is the current situation"

Seems like a better option don't you think?

Never try to eat more than you can lift