promise5 17 #76 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote ...So to repeat, when did you choose to be hetero? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If I made the statement that everyone is born hetero and then sometime after that the choice is made. Your response would be? I also expect to get blasted for even making that statement. First off, you aren't getting "blasted." If any of my responses come across that way, it is unintentional and I apologize. This is actually a pretty civil discussion of the issue, compared to some of the crap that goes on in here. For me, one of the fun things about these discussions (at least when they remain above the "Pee Wee Herman" level ) is that if I make a statement about my position on an issue, I can expect to be challenged about it. Why I believe it and what do I have to back it up. "Because I was raised that way" doesn't cut it. I haven't undergone any "earthshaking" changes of opinion, but I have taken a different view on a lot of issues. But you dodged the question. Since you seem to believe that everyone is born hetero and some choose to "go gay," when did you choose to stay hetero? Would you even be able to choose to be gay? And I agree with Wendy's question. Why in the world would anyone choose to become part of a minority that has been brutally persecuted throughout history. It'd be kinda like choosing to be an American Indian here in the US. I recall the story of a teenage boy who was gay. Not by choice. He was raised in a very religious household and was brought up to believe that homosexuality was sinful and immoral. So he prayed to God to be hetero. Often enough that he wore divots in his bedroom floor. But God didn't change him. So, faced with the prospect of being gay for the rest of his life in a community that would not accept that, he committed suicide. No I didn't think you blasted me. I was born hetero and have stayed that way As, far as your story yes that is sad and I'm sure we don't know exactly what went on in that household or with that young man. I would take on the issue of suicide. But, I have also listened to people give testimonies about thinking they were in fact "gay" and lived that lifestyle for some many years and then through circumstances and experiences and yes counseling they no longer believed that they were born gay and saw it as a choice, and now state that they are indeed hetro.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tmarine253 0 #77 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote Quote ...So to repeat, when did you choose to be hetero? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If I made the statement that everyone is born hetero and then sometime after that the choice is made. Your response would be? I also expect to get blasted for even making that statement. First off, you aren't getting "blasted." If any of my responses come across that way, it is unintentional and I apologize. This is actually a pretty civil discussion of the issue, compared to some of the crap that goes on in here. For me, one of the fun things about these discussions (at least when they remain above the "Pee Wee Herman" level ) is that if I make a statement about my position on an issue, I can expect to be challenged about it. Why I believe it and what do I have to back it up. "Because I was raised that way" doesn't cut it. I haven't undergone any "earthshaking" changes of opinion, but I have taken a different view on a lot of issues. But you dodged the question. Since you seem to believe that everyone is born hetero and some choose to "go gay," when did you choose to stay hetero? Would you even be able to choose to be gay? And I agree with Wendy's question. Why in the world would anyone choose to become part of a minority that has been brutally persecuted throughout history. It'd be kinda like choosing to be an American Indian here in the US. I recall the story of a teenage boy who was gay. Not by choice. He was raised in a very religious household and was brought up to believe that homosexuality was sinful and immoral. So he prayed to God to be hetero. Often enough that he wore divots in his bedroom floor. But God didn't change him. So, faced with the prospect of being gay for the rest of his life in a community that would not accept that, he committed suicide. No I didn't think you blasted me. I was born hetero and have stayed that way As, far as your story yes that is sad and I'm sure we don't know exactly what went on in that household or with that young man. I would take on the issue of suicide. But, I have also listened to people give testimonies about thinking they were in fact "gay" and lived that lifestyle for some many years and then through circumstances and experiences and yes counseling they no longer believed that they were born gay and saw it as a choice, and now state that they are indeed hetro. So you are telling us that you could wake up tomorrow and be sexually attracted to women if you really wanted to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,343 #78 March 17, 2013 QuoteI honestly don't know why the choice is made or when the choice is made. But, I did explain where my beliefs on this subject comes from. No you haven't. You've said that your gay friends told you the opposite, you've said you don't believe them, you have given absolutely no specific reason why, apart from vague references to religion and 'how you were raised'. Let's try looking at it in a little more detail, with a few examples. When Oscar Wilde was convicted of homosexual acts he was sentenced to 2 years hard labour, lost his life of wealth high society and died a depressed, diseased pauper. When Alan Turing, a codebreaking war hero and succesful academic, was convicted of homosexual acts he was given the choice of imprisonment or chemical castration. He chose chemical castration and was so badly affected by the treatments that he committed suicide within a few years. If these people did not have a strong natural attraction to members of their own sex why on earth would they choose to risk such terrible punishments to do something that any heterosexual man would have absolutely no desire to do? How do you rationalise their actions with your beliefs?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,313 #79 March 17, 2013 Y'know, I could easily accept someone saying that it's a choice to act on one's homosexual leanings, and that they think acting on it is immoral. I do think one is born with a tendency, just as some people are born (yes, I think this too) thinking that children are desirable. Those who are born desiring children cannot legally or morally act on their desires, but from what I've read, those desires are just as innate as those of some homosexuals. People aren't all dealt equally easy hands to play with their lives. Not everyone can be as good-looking, witty, and intelligent as I am Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,548 #80 March 17, 2013 Quote Not everyone can be as good-looking, witty, and intelligent as I am I know what you mean; It's a curse we were born with."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,343 #81 March 17, 2013 Quote So you are telling us that you could wake up tomorrow and be sexually attracted to women if you really wanted to? These chicks gave it a go. Didn't go too greatDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #82 March 17, 2013 QuoteQuoteI honestly don't know why the choice is made or when the choice is made. But, I did explain where my beliefs on this subject comes from. No you haven't. You've said that your gay friends told you the opposite, you've said you don't believe them, you have given absolutely no specific reason why, apart from vague references to religion and 'how you were raised'. Let's try looking at it in a little more detail, with a few examples. When Oscar Wilde was convicted of homosexual acts he was sentenced to 2 years hard labour, lost his life of wealth high society and died a depressed, diseased pauper. When Alan Turing, a codebreaking war hero and succesful academic, was convicted of homosexual acts he was given the choice of imprisonment or chemical castration. He chose chemical castration and was so badly affected by the treatments that he committed suicide within a few years. If these people did not have a strong natural attraction to members of their own sex why on earth would they choose to risk such terrible punishments to do something that any heterosexual man would have absolutely no desire to do? How do you rationalise their actions with your beliefs? Those are horrible and sad stories. I cannot rationalize their actions, I never "walked in there shoes, and neither have you. We are not privy to their thoughts thru out their lives,and can only see into their lives thru a small window. There are many many sad and tragic stories for any topic that can be discussed. Again, I believe I stated that my views on this issue, come from all aspects of my life, including faith, religion, upbringing, what I've read/been taught and heard and witnessed for myself. What else would you have me use? Hopefully we all when coming to a belief/or view use ALL aspects of our lives to reach that belief/view. Keeping somethings and discarding others. I know I have.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #83 March 17, 2013 I don't think its as simple as someone waking up one day, but I still believe its a choice.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,313 #84 March 17, 2013 Thanks for not jumping all over the "out" I presented earlier (that of saying that it's the action that's a choice). It's intellectually honest of you. I still disagree, but at least I'll respect you in the morning Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,343 #85 March 17, 2013 QuoteAgain, I believe I stated that my views on this issue, come from all aspects of my life, including faith, religion, upbringing, what I've read/been taught and heard and witnessed for myself. What else would you have me use? A specific piece of information. Any specific piece of information. What have you read? What have you heard? What have you witnessed? Give me any example. Anything that demonstrates that you have given the subject more than 5 seconds worth of actual thought, research and analysis. Without that there is no possibilty of discussion and I have no idea why you're bothering to post. It's like saying "I believe the government is being run by aliens." Why? "Stuff I've learned during life." Ok, dude, whatever.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #86 March 17, 2013 QuoteQuoteAgain, I believe I stated that my views on this issue, come from all aspects of my life, including faith, religion, upbringing, what I've read/been taught and heard and witnessed for myself. What else would you have me use? A specific piece of information. Any specific piece of information. What have you read? What have you heard? What have you witnessed? Give me any example. Anything that demonstrates that you have given the subject more than 5 seconds worth of actual thought, research and analysis. Without that there is no possibilty of discussion and I have no idea why you're bothering to post. It's like saying "I believe the government is being run by aliens." Why? "Stuff I've learned during life." Ok, dude, whatever. Alright, lets see about 2 years ago I watched an interview I believe it was for Chick Publications, and yes they are a christian org. where a homosexual man gave his life story to that point. In that he talked about "thinking" he was born gay and living a gay lifestyle. Through a series of events in his life and counseling he nows considers himself to be a heterosexual man and doesn't now hold to the belief any longer that he/nor anyone was born gay. I have heard and gone to watch other such testimonies of people that at one point in their lives believed they were born gay,but through different events came to the same conclusion. I will try and find that DVD if I can. Like I said I believe it was Chick pub. not sure though but will do a little research.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #87 March 17, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteAgain, I believe I stated that my views on this issue, come from all aspects of my life, including faith, religion, upbringing, what I've read/been taught and heard and witnessed for myself. What else would you have me use? A specific piece of information. Any specific piece of information. What have you read? What have you heard? What have you witnessed? Give me any example. Anything that demonstrates that you have given the subject more than 5 seconds worth of actual thought, research and analysis. Without that there is no possibilty of discussion and I have no idea why you're bothering to post. It's like saying "I believe the government is being run by aliens." Why? "Stuff I've learned during life." Ok, dude, whatever. Alright, lets see about 2 years ago I watched an interview I believe it was for Chick Publications, and yes they are a christian org. where a homosexual man gave his life story to that point. In that he talked about "thinking" he was born gay and living a gay lifestyle. Through a series of events in his life and counseling he nows considers himself to be a heterosexual man and doesn't now hold to the belief any longer that he/nor anyone was born gay. I have heard and gone to watch other such testimonies of people that at one point in their lives believed they were born gay,but through different events came to the same conclusion. I will try and find that DVD if I can. Like I said I believe it was Chick pub. not sure though but will do a little research. Gotta love it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,548 #88 March 17, 2013 Quote I don't think its as simple as someone waking up one day, but I still believe its a choice. So you will consider it?(You know you can play for both teams)"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #89 March 17, 2013 I get most of my Christian news from this place. http://www.godhatesfags.com/ The Westboro Baptist Church. I bet you can find that video on there. "Since 1955, WBC has taken forth the precious from the vile, and so is as the mouth of God (Jer. 15:19). In 1991, WBC began conducting peaceful demonstrations opposing the fag lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth." AMEN! I bet they support your amendment. Thanks to their teachings and my upbringing I have formed my own beliefs and values. What else would I have to use?!?! Its not like some magical system of worldwide networking exists giving people access to information from every corner of the globe highlighting 1000s of cultures and belief systems. I ONLY HAVE MY CHURCH AND MY PARENTS TO TELL ME WHATS WHAT. You would get along great with these people, look them up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,343 #90 March 17, 2013 QuoteAlright, lets see about 2 years ago I watched an interview I believe it was for Chick Publications, and yes they are a christian org. where a homosexual man gave his life story to that point. In that he talked about "thinking" he was born gay and living a gay lifestyle. Through a series of events in his life and counseling he nows considers himself to be a heterosexual man and doesn't now hold to the belief any longer that he/nor anyone was born gay. I have heard and gone to watch other such testimonies of people that at one point in their lives believed they were born gay,but through different events came to the same conclusion. I will try and find that DVD if I can. Like I said I believe it was Chick pub. not sure though but will do a little research. Chick? Ok dude, whatever.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #91 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote I don't think its as simple as someone waking up one day, but I still believe its a choice. So you will consider it?(You know you can play for both teams) Sorry, not a switch hitterNo matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #92 March 17, 2013 So because of my views you're telling me that I would then get along and support someone that is considered extreme in what they believe and preach. Then according to your views you would then support the extreme group "man/boy love' that thinks it should be legal for men to have sex with minor boys? Interesting.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,343 #93 March 17, 2013 QuoteSo because of my views you're telling me that I would then get along and support someone that is considered extreme in what they believe and preach. Ignore his unnecessary final sentence and think about the bit where he's pointing out the extreme bias of the organisation that has provided the only piece of information you can recall which supports your views.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #94 March 17, 2013 I never said that was the only one I recall you asked for one and I gave you more then one. No where did I say that I got anything from Westboro Org.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,343 #95 March 17, 2013 QuoteI never said that was the only one I recall you asked for one and I gave you more then one. No where did I say that I got anything from Westboro Org. No, but Chick is a source that, in terms of bias, is just as bad. It's also an example of someone who didn't make a choice to be gay, but through a combination of Christian guilt and intense 'counselling' made a choice to try not to be gay - but to be honest your choice of source demonstrates that you're probably only interested in listening to people that agree with you so I'm not going to argue the point.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #96 March 17, 2013 Quote Watch out! Its the punctuation police. Always there to belittle your post for grammatical errors if they dont agree with you. If you dont watch out you might get stabbed by that pink unicorn horn. I don't think most people are out to correct your grammar or belittle you for it just because they don't agree with you. BUT.... if you're going to post something belittling people who don't agree with you (IE, liberals here) and call them dumb, then you better have your grammar right. Just sayin' Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
93626392 0 #97 March 18, 2013 promise5, I want to try and help you. Watching you post in this thread and the other thread has been like watching a slow motion train wreck. You have been completely demolished. I was going to write "your argument has been completely demolished" but you haven't actually put forward an argument, because even the most basic argument must be supported by some facts/evidence and you have presented precisely none. I just don't understand your rationale as to why you are continuing to post. You have absolutely zero chance of "winning" or of changing anyone's mind. Your skills are too weak. It seems to me like you came into these two threads with the incredibly naive view that your opinion would be well-received. I want to ask you honestly: do you often engage with people who have opposing views to you own? Based on what you have posted recently you seem both bewildered and confused that people are arguing against your position. At this point it's like watching a bunch of people clubbing a baby seal to death. For the love of god, just stop posting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #98 March 18, 2013 I'm sorry, I didn't come in here to change anyone's mind or view point. i don't think this is the proper forum where people are actually open to that idea. I'm sorry if I'm out of my league as you say and my posting are so simple. Forgive me. Thought it was open to anyone, but of course I can see its not. i'll take my poor simple little brain and excuse my self from the thread, and let the "big boys" play. After all no one gets any of their own views from; their own life and those of others ,their own upbringing , education, faith, religion, and life experiences. Much much to simple.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #99 March 18, 2013 Of course they would be bias, where as none of your sources would be. So, the person in the interview that said he felt it was also a choice and that he was not born that way and was no longer gay is wrong. InterestingNo matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PlanetLander 0 #100 March 18, 2013 Let's say the world was different, a hypothetical of sorts. A world where same sex people could only reproduce, the bible says a marriage is between a man and a man, or a women and a women. I'm assuming you're attracted to the opposite sex. Would you want the same privileges as the same sex married people enjoy? Or would you seek biblical counseling to try to convert and suppress how you really feel towards the opposite sex, whether or not you were born heterosexual or chose it?........(which would be admitting you're wrong for loving who you want to love and spending your life with) Would you honestly be able to change how you feel for a partner of the opposite sex? Not just outwardly, but inside too?Too many sharks in the gene pool Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites