Marine gets dishonorable discharge for bashing Obama

[likearock 1]

Story: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-04/D9TV0ME00.htm

Prosecutors say Marine sold "Nobama" stickers

By JULIE WATSON

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif.

A Marine is facing dismissal from the military for posting Facebook images of President Barack Obama's face superimposed on a jackass and for selling "Nobama" bumper stickers online, a prosecutor said Thursday.

Sgt. Gary Stein, 26, acted irresponsibly and disregarded repeated warnings that his anti-administration postings violated Pentagon policy involving members of the military, Marine Corps Capt. John Torresala said during a hearing at Camp Pendleton.

Comments that were prejudicial to good order and discipline were posted on the Facebook page used by military meteorologists and could have influenced junior Marines, the prosecutor said.

Stein's security clearance was taken away and he has no future in the Marine Corps because he can't do his job, Torresala said.

Backed by a team of lawyers and congressmen, Stein is fighting to stay in the military and test its longtime policy of limiting the free speech of members.

His lawyers and the American Civil Liberties Union contend his views are protected by the First Amendment.

Stein has rallied support since he was notified last month that the military was moving to discharge him after determining he was in violation of the Pentagon policy barring service members from engaging in political activities.

"The military may be different from the civilian world, but it's not exempt from the First Amendment," said David Loy, legal director for the ACLU of San Diego and Imperial counties. "Sgt. Stein didn't say anything for which the Marine Corps has any right to punish him."

The Marine Corps has said it decided to take administrative action after Stein declared on Facebook that he would not follow unlawful orders from Obama.

In addition to being discharged, Stein said, he would have his rank reduced to lance corporal if he is proven to be in violation.

He said he was removed from his job at the Marine Corps Recruiting Depot in San Diego on Wednesday and given a desk job with no access to computers.

Loy said Stein did not threaten order or discipline or take positions that anyone would attribute to the Corps. Instead, the Corps is threatening loyalty and morale in its ranks by persecuting a Marine for exercising his free speech rights, Loy said.

Stein, a nine-year member of the Marine Corps, has said he started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party to encourage fellow service members to exercise their rights.

Defense lawyers began the hearing Thursday by asking board members about their understanding of military policy limiting members from engaging in political activities and the guidelines on expressing their personal opinions.

California federal Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Alpine, a former Marine, wrote a letter to Stein's commanding officer stating the sergeant should not face dismissal for an opinion shared by a majority of Marines. Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Vista, also has expressed support for Stein.

Stein said his statement about Obama was part of an online debate about NATO allowing U.S. troops to be tried for the Quran burnings in Afghanistan. In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if it involved detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights.

The military has had a policy since the Civil War limiting the free speech of service members, including criticizing the commander in chief. Military law experts have said Stein may have crossed the line.

Pentagon directives say military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement.

Commissioned officers also may not use contemptuous words against senior officials, including the defense secretary or the president.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Whether or not he agreed with the 'company policy' (and Im not saying I do or don't) - he violated it, and continued to do so after multiple warnings.

In the corporate world, that'll get you fired too - I'm not sure what the big deal is. I have the right to free speech, but that doesn't guarantee me the 'right' to keep my job.

Now, a more appropriate question to ask is: Why is this policy there in the first place, and does it still have merit?

Of course, that takes the political nature out of it - and where's the fun in that

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[DanG 1]

He should be fired. I don't know if a dishonorable disharge is warranted, but he certainly knew what he was doing. You can't have someone in a leadership position talking about disobeying the chain of command. That's all this is about. I would have the same opinion if he were doing what he did about Bush.

- Dan G

[millertimeunc 0]

Quote

Whether or not he agreed with the 'company policy' (and Im not saying I do or don't) - he violated it, and continued to do so after multiple warnings.

In the corporate world, that'll get you fired too - I'm not sure what the big deal is. I have the right to free speech, but that doesn't guarantee me the 'right' to keep my job.

Now, a more appropriate question to ask is: Why is this policy there in the first place, and does it still have merit?

Of course, that takes the political nature out of it - and where's the fun in that

Ian

I've had this discussion with my wife a couple of times, and she still scratches her head sometimes at some of the rules we have to follow which may be stricter than what the average civilian is subject to. When I get asked whether I think some of the rules are unfair or an invasion of my privacy, my answer is always the same. Nobody put a gun to my head and MADE me sign on the dotted line!

It looks to me like this guy poked the bear with a stick a few times, and got his face mauled off. What did he think was going to happen?

The best things in life are dangerous.

[normiss 622]

He did not get a dishonorable discharge.
People should do some damn research on their own once in awhile as opposed to blindly accepting the booolshit the media excretes.

[BIGUN 1,061]

I don't think the media should be blamed for this one.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

He did not get a dishonorable discharge.
People should do some damn research on their own once in awhile as opposed to blindly accepting the booolshit the media excretes.

You beat me to it

He did NOT get a "dishonralble" discharge

He was give a less than honorable discharge

Huge difference

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

He should be fired. I don't know if a dishonorable disharge is warranted, but he certainly knew what he was doing. You can't have someone in a leadership position talking about disobeying the chain of command. That's all this is about. I would have the same opinion if he were doing what he did about Bush.

I agree. Recall though that many here didn't hold the same position when Bush was in charge and the occasional soldier protested - though I'm not sure whether they were discharged or not at the time - too busy to search today.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 622]

OTH to be specific.

At worst it will keep out of government and DoD jobs.
Can someone tell me how that's bad???

[lawrocket 3]

He held himself out as a Marine with those views. He could have been Stein but no. He decided he was get more credibility if he was a Marine with those views. One does not do anything political under the color of the uniform.

Then he wouldn't stop and said he would not obey lawful orders.

He needed to be kicked out.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[normiss 622]

Agreed.

I love the civilian sheep that scream about constitutional rights of members of the military.
It's funny.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

He held himself out as a Marine with those views. He could have been Stein but no. He decided he was get more credibility if he was a Marine with those views. One does not do anything political under the color of the uniform.

Then he wouldn't stop and said he would not obey lawful orders.

He needed to be kicked out.

Agreed

And he knew it too

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Rick 67]

Quote

Quote

He held himself out as a Marine with those views. He could have been Stein but no. He decided he was get more credibility if he was a Marine with those views. One does not do anything political under the color of the uniform.

Then he wouldn't stop and said he would not obey lawful orders.

He needed to be kicked out.

Agreed

And he knew it too

He took the oath and did not hold up his end of the deal.
He really left them no option.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

Quote

He held himself out as a Marine with those views. He could have been Stein but no. He decided he was get more credibility if he was a Marine with those views. One does not do anything political under the color of the uniform.

Then he wouldn't stop and said he would not obey lawful orders.

He needed to be kicked out.

Agreed

And he knew it too

He took the oath and did not hold up his end of the deal.
He really left them no option.

Exactly

But, in the end, he could have been treated much worse than he was

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[millertimeunc 0]

To me, it's just puzzling. I mean, it's not like they don't make the rules abundantly clear before you join. I really don't understand how some civilians don't "get" the fact that you're held to a different standard when you join the military, and then whine and complain about "constitutional rights being violated" in a case like this.

The best things in life are dangerous.

[normiss 622]

Nice to see those of us that DID serve, understand it, accept it, and respect it.

[DougH 270]

I have no problem with this. I don't talk shit about my company and its higher ups on an open forum because I value my continued employment.

Common sense.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[skypuppy 1]

It's all right for obama to comment on a justice issue that wasn't even before the courts -- something that may have led to an innocent man being arrested, and yet this guy can't criticize obama?

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[normiss 622]

That is completely correct.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Nice to see those of us that DID serve, understand it, accept it, and respect it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Zenister 0]

Quote

He should be fired. I don't know if a dishonorable disharge is warranted, but he certainly knew what he was doing. You can't have someone in a leadership position talking about disobeying the chain of command. That's all this is about. I would have the same opinion if he were doing what he did about Bush.

This... what amazes me is how oblivious he seems about the consequences.

OTH discharge IS a huge deal. While certainly not as severe as a Dishonorable, with the flood of Honorably discharged veterans seeking jobs, why would you even consider someone with OTH? His resume will immediately go into the round file for nearly every job he applies for, if he leaves it off he'll be bounced in the interview process for trying to hide it.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[matthewcline 0]

He won't need to worry about work, he will be on the professional "Obama Bashing Tour".

He screwed the pooch. he got canned, end of story, well the USMC part at least.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

Nice to see those of us that DID serve, understand it, accept it, and respect it.

Where are the people who didn't serve not accepting it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,129]

Quote

Nice to see those of us that DID serve, understand it, accept it, and respect it.

Pretty sure lots of people who didn't serve understand it too.

If I bashed my employer publicly, I would get fired too. Not sure how people NOT understand this.

[Southern_Man 0]

Wow, for once a topic that people (at least most) on both the left and right agree upon


Kum-bah-ya

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"