Coreece 190 #1576 April 20, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Following and or watching are not crimes right...I remember many altercations in detroit that were started simply because somebody was looking at someone the "wrong way." Ah yes the ole stink eye Opps didn't mean to give you one That's it...you're fuckin' dead!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #1577 April 20, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Following and or watching are not crimes right...I remember many altercations in detroit that were started simply because somebody was looking at someone the "wrong way." Ah yes the ole stink eye Opps didn't mean to give you one That's it...you're fuckin' dead! "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #1578 April 20, 2012 QuoteIf Zimmerman's lawyer can convince a jury that the "following in the car and pursuing on foot" part was seperate from the "fight that ended up in a shooting" part, then he may be aquitted. If the prosecutor can convince the jury that the entire situation was created by Zimmerman deciding that Martin was a criminal who needed to be caught, then Zimmerman may be in a lot of trouble. I can see it going either way. Although I don't think the prosecution has much of a case unless they come out with some spectacular piece of evidence that has not yet been leaked. Especially to convict him of second degree murder. I'm still not understanding why they went for that charge instead of manslaughter. Is it because the jury can still choose the lesser charge of manslaughter? Otherwise, it seems like going for the second degree charge is more likely to get the case dismissed??? (Not sure how all of that works.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #1579 April 20, 2012 Quote And actually I was taught to shoot until the threat is eliminated Not to shoot to kill Exactly! This is what is taught in self-defense courses."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #1580 April 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteIf Zimmerman's lawyer can convince a jury that the "following in the car and pursuing on foot" part was seperate from the "fight that ended up in a shooting" part, then he may be aquitted. If the prosecutor can convince the jury that the entire situation was created by Zimmerman deciding that Martin was a criminal who needed to be caught, then Zimmerman may be in a lot of trouble. I can see it going either way. Although I don't think the prosecution has much of a case unless they come out with some spectacular piece of evidence that has not yet been leaked. Especially to convict him of second degree murder. I'm still not understanding why they went for that charge instead of manslaughter. Is it because the jury can still choose the lesser charge of manslaughter? Otherwise, it seems like going for the second degree charge is more likely to get the case dismissed??? (Not sure how all of that works.) I have to wonder if this case will ever get to a jury"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #1581 April 20, 2012 Quote some spectacular piece of evidence that has not yet been leaked. odds are, if it's tasty, it's already been leaked the place is a sieve (now that word doesn't look like it's spelled right at all) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #1582 April 20, 2012 Interesting new article: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/20/Dershowitz-prosecution-immoral QuoteWith ABC News’ release of the George Zimmerman photo showing blood flowing freely from his head, the question becomes whether Angela Corey, the prosecutor in the case, had access to the photo before charging Zimmerman with second-degree murder. The arrest affidavit did not mention the photograph, or the bleeding, gashes, and bruises on Zimmermans’ head. Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School stated upon release of the arrest affidavit that it was “so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge … everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense.” After the release of the photo, however, Dershowitz went much further, telling Breitbart News that if the prosecutors did have the photo and didn’t mention it in the affidavit, that would constitute a “grave ethical violation,” since affidavits are supposed to contain “all relevant information.” Dershowitz continued, “An affidavit that willfully misstates undisputed evidence known to the prosecution is not only unethical but borders on perjury because an affiant swears to tell not only the truth, but the whole truth, and suppressing an important part of the whole truth is a lie." When asked if it made a difference whether the prosecution had the bloody photograph at the time they charged Zimmerman, Dershowitz responded, “We do know that there were earlier photographs before the affidavit was done that strongly suggested blood on the back of the head, and we know the police had first access to him, so if there was blood they [the prosecution] would know about it … "I've had cases in Florida against prosecutors,” Dershowitz said, “and this is not the first time they have willfully omitted exculpatory evidence. It's a continuing problem. Here, it’s not only immoral, but stupid. The whole country is watching. What do they benefit from having half-truths in an affidavit?" Dershowitz added, "I'm not taking sides, but I'm insisting that both sides play by the rules, and so far the prosecution is not playing by the rules." Picture of Z's bloodied head: http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpgYou stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linebckr83 3 #1583 April 20, 2012 What ever happened to good ol common sense? My "that poor kid" sympathy went out the window when I read those tweets of his. I can't think of any well-mannered 17 yr olds that talk like that and punch bus drivers (allegedly). I'm in no way racist, I have many role models of all kinds of races. But being a respectable black man and a "gangsta thug thats gonna kill all those bitches" are a worlds difference. Has anyone mentioned any prior confrontations between the two? It sounds like Zimmerman was pretty active in trying to police his neighborhood. Did Martin live in that neighborhood so that they might have ran into eachother on several occasions and built up a high-tension relationship, or were they total strangers? Like I said im not racist in any way. But it only takes a little common sense to see why a guy who is overly paranoid about protecting his neighborhood zeros in on a kid who projects himself publicly like Martin did. Of course that doesn't mean he could kill him, thats not what I'm saying. If a sweet old lady was wondering down the road at the same time, is it "racial profiling" to suspect someone dressed and acting like a gangster is more probable to cause trouble? No, thats just common sense. Same goes for a white kid dressed and acting like a gangster. People profile all the time whether they mean to or not. Its never bothered me. I'm 24, it wasn't long ago that i was getting followed around in nice stores because "young people are shop-lifters." I'm not a thief, Ive never stolen anything and I have a clean record, but did I get butt hurt when I was suspected of it? Nope I took it as someone using their head and realizing I'm more likely to do it than the 12 yr old down the isle trying on new hannah montana shoes. Maybe he followed him because of this profiling, maybe they had a long past. We don't know. Either way they pissed eachother off and 1 of them wound up dead. Tragic and unnecessary. "Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #1584 April 20, 2012 Zimmerman and Martin did not know each other. Martin was visiting the home of his father's GF."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #1585 April 21, 2012 I know,should have checked the spelling after bashing it out on the keys. But a tooth ferry could be pretty cool if it was one of those fast ass cats they use from new england to nova scotia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #1586 April 21, 2012 QuoteQuoteAn interpretation of the law that says anyone can pick a fight, then resort to lethal force if things start to go badly, would absolutely turn "stand your ground" into "make my day". You're making the large assumption that Zimmerman started the fist fight to base your argument on. Actually, Mike, I'm not making any assumption at all. I don't pretend to know who is legally culpable for starting the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman, and I hope the courts will be able to sort it out. What I do know is that the argument that Zimmerman was justified in shooting simply on the grounds that he was losing the fight opens the door to all kinds of problems. QuoteRegardless - you're in a fist fight with another person; are you *really* saying that you're supposed to just let him kill you when he starts bashing your head into the concrete?What I'm saying is that if you start the fight, you are responsible for whatever happens. If you miscalculate and end up getting the shit beaten out of you, pulling out a gun and killing the other person is no longer self defense, it's manslaughter/murder. If you are arguing that simply being on the losing end of a fight is sufficient to justify resorting to deadly force, regardless of who started the fight, you open the door to legal murder. Under this scenario, if you're in competition with somebody for a job/promotion/girlfriend/whatever, all you'd have to do is walk up to them, punch them in the nose, wait for them to punch you in response, then you could legally kill them. I hope no-body would find that to be an acceptable situation. So, if you start a fight, it goes badly, and you find your head being bashed into the concrete, your choices should be to take your lumps or, if you really believe you're going to die and have no choice, use your gun while recognizing that you're choosing to live but it'll be in prison. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #1587 April 21, 2012 This case reminds me of the duke lacrosse incident that the media and the prosecutor rode into infamy a few years back. Instead of allegations of gang rape upon a poor little innocent black girl by rich white boys,it's allegations of an unprovoked shooting of an innocent black boy by an armed white thug. Except Zimmerman is not white. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #1588 April 21, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteAn interpretation of the law that says anyone can pick a fight, then resort to lethal force if things start to go badly, would absolutely turn "stand your ground" into "make my day". You're making the large assumption that Zimmerman started the fist fight to base your argument on. Actually, Mike, I'm not making any assumption at all. I don't pretend to know who is legally culpable for starting the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman, and I hope the courts will be able to sort it out. Given your quoted words directly above about someone 'pick(ing) a fight, then resort to lethal force', how *else* would you expect a reader to interpret it, pray tell? QuoteWhat I do know is that the argument that Zimmerman was justified in shooting simply on the grounds that he was losing the fight opens the door to all kinds of problems. And again - *WHO* has made that argument? NOBODY. The argument has been that lethal force was justified due to the fact that Zimmerman's head was being slammed into the sidewalk (which is also considered lethal force). QuoteQuoteRegardless - you're in a fist fight with another person; are you *really* saying that you're supposed to just let him kill you when he starts bashing your head into the concrete?What I'm saying is that if you start the fight, you are responsible for whatever happens. If you miscalculate and end up getting the shit beaten out of you, pulling out a gun and killing the other person is no longer self defense, it's manslaughter/murder. Agreed, given the narrow circumstances described which do not match testimony and injuries. However, when lethal force is used against you in the course of that fight, you *ARE*, in fact, justified to use lethal force of your own. QuoteIf you are arguing that simply being on the losing end of a fight is sufficient to justify resorting to deadly force, regardless of who started the fight, you open the door to legal murder. I have made no such statement. Looks like yet another red herring. QuoteUnder this scenario, if you're in competition with somebody for a job/promotion/girlfriend/whatever, all you'd have to do is walk up to them, punch them in the nose, wait for them to punch you in response, then you could legally kill them. Good thing that your scenario not only isn't covered under the law, but isn't what appeared to have happened. QuoteSo, if you start a fight, it goes badly, and you find your head being bashed into the concrete, your choices should be to take your lumps or, if you really believe you're going to die and have no choice, use your gun while recognizing that you're choosing to live but it'll be in prison. So you're saying that someone should go to jail for defending themselves from a lethal attack? Quite the interesting fantasy land you live in regarding legal issues. Maybe in your next post you can address *ACTUAL* law and issues instead of what you've made up.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #1589 April 21, 2012 QuoteThis case reminds me of the duke lacrosse incident that the media and the prosecutor rode into infamy a few years back. Instead of allegations of gang rape upon a poor little innocent black girl by rich white boys,it's allegations of an unprovoked shooting of an innocent black boy by an armed white thug. Except Zimmerman is not white. Yup. I had been thinking the same thing for a while. I'm just waiting for the defense to claim Z was in the right with SYG and the judge tosses the case before it hits trial.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #1590 April 21, 2012 QuoteQuotewhy shoot to kill? Because shooting for any other reason is not a reason to shoot. 1. If you think your life is in danger, you don't have the time to pull off a trick shot. 2. If you have the time to pull off a trick shot... your life is not in danger. 3. When your life is in danger, the chance of you being able to pull off a trick shot is astronomical. Shooting to wound is next to impossible, might not stop an attacker, and legally is actually harder to defend your actions. I don't actually even know if he was shooting to kill -- I was always told to 'shoot for the centre of visible mass'.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #1591 April 21, 2012 following a guy who you think might be up to no good, is not starting a fight. Following someone is not justification for that someone to attack you.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #1592 April 21, 2012 My "that poor kid" sympathy went out the window when I read those tweets of his. I can't think of any well-mannered 17 yr olds that talk like that and punch bus drivers (allegedly). __________________________________________ I hadn't heard of these tweets of his. Can you point me to them? I can't seem to find ... Found it! Sounds like he got on a bus he wasn't sposed to be on and when asked to leave, punched the driver. Sounds like.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #1593 April 21, 2012 QuoteMy "that poor kid" sympathy went out the window when I read those tweets of his. I can't think of any well-mannered 17 yr olds that talk like that and punch bus drivers (allegedly). __________________________________________ I hadn't heard of these tweets of his. Can you point me to them? I can't seem to find ... http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlsc 0 #1594 April 21, 2012 QuotePeople profile all the time whether they mean to or not. Its never bothered me. I'm 24, it wasn't long ago that i was getting followed around in nice stores because "young people are shop-lifters." I'm not a thief, Ive never stolen anything and I have a clean record, but did I get butt hurt when I was suspected of it? And if you were black get used to that suspicion for the rest of your life. And if you're black and stand your ground then expect to get shot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlsc 0 #1595 April 21, 2012 ...A North Carolina judge ruled Friday that racial discrimination played a role in sending a black man to death row in 1991, in the first in a series of cases that will challenge death role rulings on grounds of racism. The landmark decision found 'intentional and systemic discrimination by state prosecutors' against African-American would-be jurors in capital cases. The case found that prosecutors deliberately excluded qualified Black jurors from jury service in death-row inmate Marcus Robinson’s case, in Cumberland County and throughout the state. The ruling takes Robinson off of death row. The case is the first pursuit under the Racial Justice Act which "allows North Carolina’s 157 death-row prisoners a hearing in which they can present statistics and other evidence that death sentences state- and county-wide were tainted by race discrimination and that their death should be commuted to life in prison," writes the ACLU. The Racial Justice Act was passed in 2009... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yourmomma 0 #1596 April 21, 2012 Niggers are guilty. Jews run shit. You don't understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #1597 April 21, 2012 QuoteQuotePeople profile all the time whether they mean to or not. Its never bothered me. I'm 24, it wasn't long ago that i was getting followed around in nice stores because "young people are shop-lifters." I'm not a thief, Ive never stolen anything and I have a clean record, but did I get butt hurt when I was suspected of it? And if you were black get used to that suspicion for the rest of your life. And if you're black and stand your ground then expect to get shot. yep, everyday life in the city whether black or white...not that you would know.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #1598 April 21, 2012 QuoteNiggers are guilty Easy now muthafucka...for real. I don't play that shit.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #1599 April 21, 2012 yep, that's what I thought bitch...move along. . .Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #1600 April 21, 2012 My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
