Feds warn of small airplane terror threats

[kallend 1,647]

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Suicide bombers don't need to park.

No, but they do need to get close enough to the building to do damage. Bollards prevent that.

A lot of bollardless large buildings in NYC and Chicago. A lot of bollardless bridges and tunnels around the world.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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Let's see, how does the number of terrorist attacks carried out in private planes loaded with explosives since 9/11/2001 compare with the number of truck and car bomb attacks in the same time period?

Let's see, in America we've had FOUR planes hijacked by terrorists and crashed at great loss of life.
And America has had ONE big truck bomb blow up a building with great loss of life.
You were saying?

What part of the word "private" don't you understand?
The USA is NOT the world, nor even "America".

I refuse to accept the confining limitations of your parameters.
Thank you for the geography lesson, but I didn't need it.

Gun-o-phobes!

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

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Let's see, how does the number of terrorist attacks carried out in private planes loaded with explosives since 9/11/2001 compare with the number of truck and car bomb attacks in the same time period?

Let's see, in America we've had FOUR planes hijacked by terrorists and crashed at great loss of life.
And America has had ONE big truck bomb blow up a building with great loss of life.
You were saying?

What part of the word "private" don't you understand?
The USA is NOT the world, nor even "America".

I refuse to accept the confining limitations of your parameters.
Thank you for the geography lesson, but I ddin't need it.

I don't always agree with Kallend, but the title of the thread includes the words "Small Airplane".

The airliners that were hijacked were far from small,
The two incidents that involved small planes that I can recall were rather anti-climactic.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JohnRich 4]

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I don't always agree with Kallend, but the title of the thread includes the words "Small Airplane".

So? We're not confined to talk about only exactly what is specified in the title.
And how small is "small"? Is an Otter a "small" airplane?

[quade 3]

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I don't always agree with Kallend, but the title of the thread includes the words "Small Airplane".

So? We're not confined to talk about only exactly what is specified in the title.
And how small is "small"? Is an Otter a "small" airplane?

Technically, yes. A Twin Otter (DHC-6 300) is legally a "small" aircraft.

http://faaglossary.com/small-aircraft-faa-regulatory-definition-from-14-cfr-1-1/

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[grimmie 177]

Security in the USA is still a joke.

In Hawaii you can board a Cessna Caravan to island hop and not be searched or even go through any type of security. I wrote an e-mail to TSA. The sent a reply stating..."If you need more informatyion, go to our website". Idiots.

And as far as terror attacks. Most Federal and State buildings aren't protected from truck bombs driving right up to the front doors.

Drive down any interstate and check out a truck stop. Tons of dangerous material (Gasoline being #1) just parked. A terrorist could steal a semi full of fuel and drive it right into a shopping center during the holidays.

All of these "Terror Warnings" are just to keep the public aware.

When I was on the FD, we went to so many terrorism classes. If the bad guys want to create havoc, it can be done easily.

At least an airliner won't ever be used again. The pilots are trained and the passengers won't go down without a fight.

[mnealtx 0]

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Only a moron would devote a lot of resources to counter an almost non-existent threat when there are plenty of real threats.

Only a moron would ignore a briefing paper stating that a well known terrorist is planning an attack on the US and intends to use commercial airliners to do it,

You mean the briefing paper that said:

"We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ... (redacted portion) ... service in 1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to hijack a US aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Shaykh" 'Umar 'Abd al-Rahman and other US-held extremists."

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but you'd be amazed at the kind of people in the 43rd administration.

I'm more amazed at the idiots that still believe the "Bush knew" bullshit.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 3]

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but you'd be amazed at the kind of people in the 43rd administration.

I'm more amazed at the idiots that still believe the "Bush knew" bullshit.

I don't think Bush specifically knew the specific attack on the specific day was coming, but to say he had not been briefed on its potential is historically inaccurate.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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but you'd be amazed at the kind of people in the 43rd administration.

I'm more amazed at the idiots that still believe the "Bush knew" bullshit.

I don't think Bush specifically knew the specific attack on the specific day was coming, but to say he had not been briefed on its potential is historically inaccurate.

"We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ... (redacted portion) ... service in 1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to hijack a US aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Shaykh" 'Umar 'Abd al-Rahman and other US-held extremists."

No mention of crashing planes into buildings, much less the WTC....guess it must have been in that special ink that's only visible to the 'true believers'.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 3]

Next paragraph please.

In case you can't find it, here it is;

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Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

Source: http://articles.cnn.com/2004-04-10/politics/august6.memo_1_bin-conduct-terrorist-attacks-abu-zubaydah?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

As I said, to say Bush had not been briefed about the potential danger is historically inaccurate. You can attempt to dispute it all you'd like, but that doesn't make you right.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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Next paragraph please.

In case you can't find it, here it is;

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Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

Source: http://articles.cnn.com/2004-04-10/politics/august6.memo_1_bin-conduct-terrorist-attacks-abu-zubaydah?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

As I said, to say Bush had not been briefed about the potential danger is historically inaccurate. You can attempt to dispute it all you'd like, but that doesn't make you right.

Still no mention of crashing planes or the WTC. You can insist Bush knew all you like, but that doesn't make you right, either.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 3]

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Still no mention of crashing planes or the WTC. You can insist Bush knew all you like, but that doesn't make you right, either.

I can't help it if you lack the imagination to see the potential of hijacked airplanes being run into buildings. Be that as it may, the CIA warned about the possibility of such attacks in '95 so certainly they took it seriously. If you'd like to believe they had never communicated that concern to Bush you're free to do so, but I think it's ludicrous.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/21/terror/main607659.shtml

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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Still no mention of crashing planes or the WTC. You can insist Bush knew all you like, but that doesn't make you right, either.

I can't help it if you lack the imagination to see the potential of hijacked airplanes being run into buildings.

Lame.

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Be that as it may, the CIA warned about the possibility of such attacks in '95 so certainly they took it seriously.

Your article doesn't state that. Attacks, yes, crashing planes, no.

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If you'd like to believe they had never communicated that concern to Bush you're free to do so, but I think it's ludicrous.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/21/terror/main607659.shtml

The SNIE doesn't show it, and your article doesn't show it. Kinda skimpy on proof there, Paul - maybe the nanothermite fairies took it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 3]

Hell, in 1994 an Air France flight was hijacked by terrorists linked to al Qaeda, with the goal of crashing it into the Eiffel Tower, but French Special Forces stormed the plane before it could take off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_8969

Again, to say Bush was unaware of the potential of running hijacked airplanes into buildings is ludicrous. I mean, unless you really believe he was still a coked up frat boy and wasn't paying attention . . . I guess in that situation you might have a point.

But I give him more credit than that.

Understand, I'm NOT saying and never have said, Bush knew specifics. I don't believe there was any sort of 9/11 conspiracy inside the Administration (Iraq however . . . ). That said, he WAS briefed and the potential should have been obvious to anyone with the ability to add two plus two.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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Hell, in 1994 an Air France flight was hijacked by terrorists linked to al Qaeda, with the goal to crash it into the Eiffel Tower, but French Special Forces stormed plane before it takes off.

Nice supposition on the part of Wiki - if their goal was to crash it into the tower, why spend 2 days negotiating for the release of political prisoners?

The only link that I can find between AQ and GIA is from the CFR, which states that :

"Algerian and Western counterterrorism officials say that many members may have defected in recent years and joined al-Qaeda or its sister organization al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)."

Looks like there wasn't any connection in 94 as Wiki claims.

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That said, he WAS briefed

So where's the briefing doc that shows it? The August SNIE sure doesn't and neither does your CNN article.

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and the potential was obvious to anyone with the ability to add two plus two.

Only in 20/20 hindsight.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Calvin19 0]

HEY!!! this is a 9/11 conspiracy thread!?!?

Sweet!

They were holograms over cruise missiles how else can you explain the barium in the rubble. all you all are sheeple.

[shermanator 3]

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Last time I went to Disney World we drove our car all of the way to the parking lot with no check. The only thing they checked on my person was my wallet, to make sure I had enough money to fleece.

Right. And how many feet away were you parked from the castle? My guess is you were at least 1/4 to 1/2 mile away at Disneyland in California and perhaps several miles away at Disney World in Florida.

But if you know where it is, a Ryder truck could quickly blow through a barricade and be underneath the grand California before anyone had time to react. Ok, maybe they would need a person on foot to take out the rent a cop and lower the barricade... Easy enough. A truck marked identical to a Disney truck and any badge that looks similar will get them backstage and close to any attraction or plow through on stage... It's a lot more plausible than one would think. I got in once with a pair of yellow tongs because I forgot my I'd card once

I might not know much about some things, but I know quite a bit about that particular issue.

Cars blowing up in the parking lots are of no use to the terrorists. None. What they need are photos that will put fear into the hearts of people. Blowing up landmarks does that. Not parking lots.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[quade 3]

Oh there are some gaps in areas that matter less. There are also some gaps I'm not going to talk about in areas that matter more. That said, an aerial attack would still be trivial to pull off. There simply is no defense against it at all because there's no way to secure the airspace in any meaningful way.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jonstark 8]

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And imagine the devastation from a biological warfare product dispensed over major cities from crop-dusters.

I have posed this exact question to an Army chemist who has been in research and development of Nuclear/Biological/Chemical warfare protection and decontamination for 35 yrs. My position has always been that a light a/c is the tactical equivalent of a VW Beetle. He totally concurred.

Using a blistering agent one would have to fly very close to a very dense concentration of people, his example was the Million Man March on DC, to possibly injure a few people. Anthrax, Plague, Pox would be next to impossible to dispense enough spores in concentrations able to infect anyone. A tactical nuke might be somewhat effective if detonated above a tightly packed gathering.

What pisses me off is that Homeland security is singling out General Aviation as a bigger threat than U-Haul. They have millions of us jumping through hoops, states and municipalities pissing money away on bogus security fences, ID checks, etc. They want to curb my freedom to make their jobs easier. They want to do that by making me and my little Cessna scary to the public.

jon

[sacex250 0]

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And imagine the devastation from a biological warfare product dispensed over major cities from crop-dusters.

I have posed this exact question to an Army chemist who has been in research and development of Nuclear/Biological/Chemical warfare protection and decontamination for 35 yrs. My position has always been that a light a/c is the tactical equivalent of a VW Beetle. He totally concurred.

Using a blistering agent one would have to fly very close to a very dense concentration of people, his example was the Million Man March on DC, to possibly injure a few people. Anthrax, Plague, Pox would be next to impossible to dispense enough spores in concentrations able to infect anyone. A tactical nuke might be somewhat effective if detonated above a tightly packed gathering.

What pisses me off is that Homeland security is singling out General Aviation as a bigger threat than U-Haul. They have millions of us jumping through hoops, states and municipalities pissing money away on bogus security fences, ID checks, etc. They want to curb my freedom to make their jobs easier. They want to do that by making me and my little Cessna scary to the public.

jon

I agree completely! Instead of living in fear of the Al-Quaida Kamikaze Air Force, THAT DOESN'T EXIST, I say bring 'em on! I guarantee we'll win the war of attrition on that one.

How much damage do you think that the REAL Japanese Kamikazi planes could have done to the US during WWII? Now compare a WWII Japanese plane to a light GA aircraft and there's no comparison in speed, weight, and armament, (i.e. destructive power). A GA aircraft is simply not an effective weapon or weapons platform.

When that F-18 crashed into a residential neighborhood in San Diego, it took out ONE house! And an F-18 is a comparably massive airplane larger, heavier, and faster than a mid-size business jet.

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[DanJohnson 0]

***From article:
The alert, issued ahead of the summer's last busy travel weekend, said terrorists have considered renting private planes and loading them with explosives.

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After 10 years of false alarms I would expect most of the citizenry and certainly the media to be a bit more sceptical of government warnings concerning "terr".
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself!"

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[DanJohnson 0]

If they really wanted to put fear in our hearts, simultaneously blowing up major intersections around a large city would completely paralyze it. They could damn near completely shut down Chicago with 6 small to medium sized truck bombs (Cube van sized, not Oklahoma City sized).

[DanJohnson 0]

***At least an airliner won't ever be used again. The pilots are trained and the passengers won't go down without a fight

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What if .., a symapathetic pilot working for a foreign airline were behind the controls of an inward bound aircraft from a foreign country?
Are you certain an airliner will never be used again?

I'm more certain that no skyscraper will ever fall into its' own footprint soley from a fire caused by an airplane strike.

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[Calvin19 0]

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I'm more certain that no skyscraper will ever fall into its' own footprint soley from a fire caused by an airplane strike.

THERE IT IS AGAIN!

[winsor 187]

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***At least an airliner won't ever be used again. The pilots are trained and the passengers won't go down without a fight

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What if .., a symapathetic pilot working for a foreign airline were behind the controls of an inward bound aircraft from a foreign country?
Are you certain an airliner will never be used again?

I'm more certain that no skyscraper will ever fall into its' own footprint soley from a fire caused by an airplane strike.

Add a little nanothermite, and Presto!

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