wayneflorida 0 #1 September 4, 2011 From article: The alert, issued ahead of the summer's last busy travel weekend, said terrorists have considered renting private planes and loading them with explosives. http://news.yahoo.com/feds-warn-small-airplane-terror-threats-003115875.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #2 September 4, 2011 QuoteFrom article: The alert, issued ahead of the summer's last busy travel weekend, said terrorists have considered renting private planes and loading them with explosives. http://news.yahoo.com/feds-warn-small-airplane-terror-threats-003115875.html I'm sure terrorists have considered lots of things. The article also said there's no credible threat. All things considered, you'd get a far bigger bang from a truck carrying a couple tons of ANFO than from a C172 carrying a couple hundred pounds. Tim McVeigh showed how effective a truckload can be.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #3 September 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteFrom article: The alert, issued ahead of the summer's last busy travel weekend, said terrorists have considered renting private planes and loading them with explosives. http://news.yahoo.com/feds-warn-small-airplane-terror-threats-003115875.html I'm sure terrorists have considered lots of things. The article also said there's no credible threat. All things considered, you'd get a far bigger bang from a truck carrying a couple tons of ANFO than from a C172 carrying a couple hundred pounds. Tim McVeigh showed how effective a truckload can be. What's the payload capacity of a Twin Otter?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #4 September 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteAll things considered, you'd get a far bigger bang from a truck carrying a couple tons of ANFO than from a C172 carrying a couple hundred pounds. Tim McVeigh showed how effective a truckload can be. What's the payload capacity of a Twin Otter? Let's see... 22 jumpers with gear at about 182 lbs. each, equals 4,004 lbs. Or in other words, a couple of tons. Gosh, a Twin Otter could be the equivalent of kallend's truck carrying a couple tons of ANFO. And it would be harder to stop. The 9/11 terrorists showed how effective airplanes can be. And imagine the devastation from a biological warfare product dispensed over major cities from crop-dusters. Nah, nothing to worry about here. Just because kallend says so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,351 #5 September 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteAll things considered, you'd get a far bigger bang from a truck carrying a couple tons of ANFO than from a C172 carrying a couple hundred pounds. Tim McVeigh showed how effective a truckload can be. What's the payload capacity of a Twin Otter? Let's see... 22 jumpers with gear at about 200 lbs. each, equals 4,400 lbs. Or in other words, a couple of tons. Gosh, a Twin Otter could be the equivalent of kallend's truck carrying a couple tons of ANFO. And it would be harder to stop. The 9/11 terrorists showed how effective airplances can be. Nah, nothing to worry about here. Just because kallend says so. Where can you walk in and rent an Otter? For that matter, where can you simply walk in and rent any airplane? AFAIK, renting a plane involves a checkout in the plane to be rented. Usually a written and a checkride. The overall demeanor of the pilot is looked at as much as the skills. You don't want to hand that much value over to just any "yahoo." It's not like Avis. Admittedly, stealing an airplane isn't all that hard, The "Barefoot Bandit" proved that."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #6 September 4, 2011 QuoteWhere can you walk in and rent an Otter? Although, it would be trivial to charter a G4 and load it up with "cargo" to be transported. http://www.charterjets.com/private_jet_aircraft_for_charter/gulfstream_giv_givsp_g300_g400_g4/ No messy cockpit doors to have to deal with either.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #7 September 4, 2011 QuoteAdmittedly, stealing an airplane isn't all that hard, The "Barefoot Bandit" proved that. Correct, and terrorists who are willing to kill thousands of people, presumably wouldn't have any scruples about stealing an airplane, right? Or just cutting the throats of the pilots and taking over control in-flight. Hmmm, that sounds familiar... Stolen crop duster terror alert: http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/briefs/188494-1.html But hey, what's REALLY scary is those darned American Christians! (sarcasm) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #8 September 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteFrom article: The alert, issued ahead of the summer's last busy travel weekend, said terrorists have considered renting private planes and loading them with explosives. http://news.yahoo.com/feds-warn-small-airplane-terror-threats-003115875.html I'm sure terrorists have considered lots of things. The article also said there's no credible threat. All things considered, you'd get a far bigger bang from a truck carrying a couple tons of ANFO than from a C172 carrying a couple hundred pounds. Tim McVeigh showed how effective a truckload can be. What's the payload capacity of a Twin Otter? From the OP: "Terrorists have considered renting private planes" Ever tried to rent a Twin Otter?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #9 September 4, 2011 Let's see, how does the number of terrorist attacks carried out in private planes loaded with explosives since 9/11/2001 compare with the number of truck and car bomb attacks in the same time period?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #10 September 4, 2011 QuoteEver tried to rent a Twin Otter? Nope. That said, I'm fairly certain that if I wanted to, I could show up at just about any drop zone on the planet that had one and, with enough money in hand, convince the management to do a little bit of charter work helping me move some cargo from point A to point B during their off hours. From that point forward, it doesn't exactly take a criminal master mind to figure out the rest of the plan.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #11 September 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteFrom article: The alert, issued ahead of the summer's last busy travel weekend, said terrorists have considered renting private planes and loading them with explosives. http://news.yahoo.com/feds-warn-small-airplane-terror-threats-003115875.html I'm sure terrorists have considered lots of things. The article also said there's no credible threat. All things considered, you'd get a far bigger bang from a truck carrying a couple tons of ANFO than from a C172 carrying a couple hundred pounds. Tim McVeigh showed how effective a truckload can be. What's the payload capacity of a Twin Otter? From the OP: "Terrorists have considered renting private planes" Ever tried to rent a Twin Otter? I have to agree with Kallend. It is hard enough for a dropzone to get their hands on an Twin Otter!"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #12 September 4, 2011 QuoteI have to agree with Kallend. It is hard enough for a dropzone to get their hands on an Twin Otter! Nonsense. Money makes everything in that realm possible; in fact, trivial.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #13 September 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteEver tried to rent a Twin Otter? Nope. That said, I'm fairly certain that if I wanted to, I could show up at just about any drop zone on the planet that had one and, with enough money in hand, convince the management to do a little bit of charter work helping me move some cargo from point A to point B during their off hours. From that point forward, it doesn't exactly take a criminal master mind to figure out the rest of the plan. Doesn't take a master mind, or even much money, to rent a Ryder truck.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #14 September 4, 2011 QuoteDoesn't take a master mind, or even much money, to rent a Ryder truck. I agree. That said, trucks are susceptible to physical barriers and check points airplanes aren't.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #15 September 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteI have to agree with Kallend. It is hard enough for a dropzone to get their hands on an Twin Otter! Nonsense. Money makes everything in that realm possible; in fact, trivial. Let's see, how does the number of terrorist attacks carried out in private planes loaded with explosives since 9/11/2001 compare with the number of truck and car bomb attacks in the same time period? Only a moron would devote a lot of resources to counter an almost non-existent threat when there are plenty of real threats.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #16 September 4, 2011 If that was true then the 9/11 Hijackers would have just purchased comercial airliners instead of running the risk of failing to hijack them. Post 9/11 people would be pretty suspicious of a group flashing a lot of cash to rent a larger turboprop."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #17 September 4, 2011 QuoteOnly a moron would devote a lot of resources to counter an almost non-existent threat when there are plenty of real threats. Only a moron would ignore a briefing paper stating that a well known terrorist is planning an attack on the US and intends to use commercial airliners to do it, but you'd be amazed at the kind of people in the 43rd administration.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #18 September 4, 2011 QuotePost 9/11 people would be pretty suspicious of a group flashing a lot of cash to rent a larger turboprop. Your argument would have some validity if it didn't happen every single day of the week . . . but it does.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #19 September 4, 2011 Could General Aviation aircraft be used in a terrorist attack? Of course they could. But an attack could come from many different sources. Why all the instant fear mongering towards GA? So much for the Elephants being the only ones who fear mongered. Looks like the Donkeys are also getting in on the act. Yes the possibility of an attack using GA aircraft does exist, but one has to ask, does the US government really want to hinder GA so much with possible threats to the point where GA no longer is a viable business? If yes, then the terrorists have won. I sure hope a bunch of skydivers are not calling for more GA restrictions when attacks can come from anywhere at anytime. Don't forget the power of the IED, both physically as well as psychologically. IEDs are cheaper and easier terrorist tools than GA aircraft. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #20 September 4, 2011 QuoteQuotePost 9/11 people would be pretty suspicious of a group flashing a lot of cash to rent a larger turboprop. Your argument would have some validity if it didn't happen every single day of the week . . . but it does. I wonder how many Ryder trucks filled with ANFO you can get for the cost of chartering a G4.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #21 September 4, 2011 QuoteI wonder how many Ryder trucks filled with ANFO you can get for the cost of renting a G4. I wonder how many Ryder trucks you can drive to the 70th floor of a building. Understand that for these people, it's not simply about blowing "something" up, but rather what it looks like on TV when they do it. They proved this on 9/11. The images are seared into our brains. To be able to do it again, would "prove" they haven't lost yet. I don't think you can discount it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #22 September 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotePost 9/11 people would be pretty suspicious of a group flashing a lot of cash to rent a larger turboprop. Your argument would have some validity if it didn't happen every single day of the week . . . but it does. I wonder how many Ryder trucks filled with ANFO you can get for the cost of renting a G4. I wonder how many Ryder trucks you can drive to the 70th floor of a building. 1. WTC took more than a G4. 2. OKC did a nice job of showing you can just park a small truck on the street outside, with not much money at all. 3. Buildings have been done already. You'd need a 747 to make a bigger splash, not a Twotter or G4. Lots of bridges and tunnels.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #23 September 4, 2011 QuoteUnderstand that for these people, it's not simply about blowing "something" up, but rather what it looks like on TV when they do it. They proved this on 9/11. The images are seared into our brains. I am surprised nobody has tried this yet. Lob a bunch of motor shells into a packed Football or Baseball stadium. 60 seconds of concentrated attacks. Not only would there be death and destruction but there would also be good TV exposure. Heck do it on a Saturday from more than one location when there are tons of college football games going on around the country at the same time. Come one terrorists, show a little creatively. Ryder trucks are so 1995 and airplanes are so 2001. Get with the times. Throw in some chemical weapons for shits and giggles on Al Jazeera. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #24 September 4, 2011 Quote1. WTC took more than a G4. True. Then again, all it had was fuel, not explosives. Quote 2. OKC did a nice job of showing you can just park a small truck on the street outside, with not much money at all. And as a result, pretty much every high value target building in the country no longer allows trucks to be parked next to them. I doubt you can find any Federal building that isn't protected against this sort of attack now. Quote 3. Buildings have been done already. You'd need a 747 to make a bigger splash, not a Twotter or G4. Lots of bridges and tunnels. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain even a C-152 filled with explosives crashing into the castle at a Disney World would destroy tourism in Orlando for at least a day or two. That is extremely cost effective and photographically desirable in terms of terrorism. It's also pretty much the ONLY way 400 pound of explosives could be delivered to that target. You can't do it with a car or truck, they're all checked before entering the property.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #25 September 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteUnderstand that for these people, it's not simply about blowing "something" up, but rather what it looks like on TV when they do it. They proved this on 9/11. The images are seared into our brains. I am surprised nobody has tried this yet. Lob a bunch of motor shells into a packed Football or Baseball stadium. 60 seconds of concentrated attacks. Not only would there be death and destruction but there would also be good TV exposure. Heck do it on a Saturday from more than one location when there are tons of college football games going on around the country at the same time. Come one terrorists, show a little creatively. Ryder trucks are so 1995 and airplanes are so 2001. Get with the times. Throw in some chemical weapons for shits and giggles on Al Jazeera. Football stadiums are so 1977.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
