N .vs. S Korea kicking off ... again.

[JohnRich 4]

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That's always been the stock excuse for enabling North Korea's horseshit by means of holding our breath till we turn blue, followed by the predictable appeasement. And so long as we allow ourselves to be, in effect, checkmated by the geographic "hostage-ization" of Seoul, it will continue.

Yeah, but it's different this time - now they have NUKES.

It'll be interesting to see what Obama's response is going to be...

[petejones45 0]

Ah another classic terrorist fight

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[mnealtx 0]

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>But what about accuracy?

Many artillery shells are guided nowadays and are extremely accurate. M982 Excalibur is an example. 25 mile range, 60 foot accuracy.

Does North Korea have the commie equivalent of that?

Per General Sharp(year of article unknown):

"The North maintains 80,000 special forces and is believed to have some 13,000 artillery pieces deployed along the border, Sharp said."

With 13k guns in play, they hardly need it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[usedtajump 1]

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That's always been the stock excuse for enabling North Korea's horseshit by means of holding our breath till we turn blue, followed by the predictable appeasement. And so long as we allow ourselves to be, in effect, checkmated by the geographic "hostage-ization" of Seoul, it will continue.

Yeah, but it's different this time - now they have NUKES.

It'll be interesting to see what Obama's response is going to be...

Well, its been said that FDR got the US involved in WWII to get us out of the Great Depression. Maybe this is the beginning of the recovery from the Great Recession.

The older I get the less I care who I piss off.

[skycop 0]

Very well put sir!

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[wayneflorida 0]

Carter doesn't think the NK are bad. He can make everbody kiss and make up.

[yourmomma 0]

I'm not a nano thermite guy, or a con trail missile guy. But I do believe the chinks will aqueous to this type of an aggression to talk everyone back to the table.

[434 2]

Could this be Obamas ticket to the 2. term?

[Skyrad 0]

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Once the last of the commie old-guard are dead up there, the Kims will be gone too, and North Korea will implode.

Talking to Korean friends yesterday they were of the opinion that this was the reason for the sabre rattling, to show that the dynasty is strong and that nothing will change when Jnr takes over in full from his dad.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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>But what about accuracy?

Many artillery shells are guided nowadays and are extremely accurate. M982 Excalibur is an example. 25 mile range, 60 foot accuracy.

Does North Korea have the commie equivalent of that?

Per General Sharp(year of article unknown):

"The North maintains 80,000 special forces and is believed to have some 13,000 artillery pieces deployed along the border, Sharp said."

With 13k guns in play, they hardly need it.

Good point Mike, they malleted the island for over an hour, pin point accuracy was not the order of the day.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Erroll 49]

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I'd like to hear from someone who knows artillery. This island is seven miles offshore from North Korea. Can artillery fire that far?
Can they do it with enough accuracy to hit what they want?

Okay, just looked up the 155 mm howitzer. Range: 15k meters, or 9 miles. So a shell can make it that far. But what about accuracy?

i know of artillery that has a radius of 25km; and they dont even need to look, it's that accurate!

The South African developed self propelled G6 howitzer and its towed brother, the G5, can reach 30km easily.

(I doubt that North Korea has any, but the G5s have certainly been 'deployed' in Iraq.)

[zoobrothertom 5]

Hey Guys,

I've lived here in S.Korea for 8.5 years. I'm 9 years ex-army and have some contacts here.

First - There's no doubt over here who would win a serious throw down.
Second - S.K. and U.S. have absolute air superiority over N.K. and China as well (if it comes to Chinese involvement).
Third - N.K. can only count on about 2 days of fuel for any troop movements until anything moving on the ground is destroyed.
Fourth - U.S. forces are mainly station in Japan/Okinawa which is just a hop, skip and a jump by air and a day or two by sea.
Finally - N.K. Nukes are really pretty but are too big to be mounted on anything to get from there to anywhere, etc.

Downside -

1. - As mentioned above, Seoul would become a smoking ruin from the artillery.
2. - Possible Chinese ground troop intervention.
3. - Seoul and its surrounding cities are home to over 25% of the population. :(

Just an FYI - we now resume your regularly scheduled stuff

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[skycop 0]

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Third - N.K. can only count on about 2 days of fuel for any troop movements until anything moving on the ground is destroyed.

Isn't it part of the warplan for NK to capture fuel stocks during the initial phase of an invasion.

Since you are there, what is the pulse of the populace on taking action/inaction?

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[lawrocket 3]

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North Korea is in no shape to mount any invasion of South Korea. Even the long-pampered NK troops are short on groceries these days.

Most of NK's conventional weapons are WW2 / early Cold War vintage, and they lost a lot of their logistical support when the Soviets went away. They haven't been able to modernize very much at all, let alone maintain what they've got, which is why they've been working so hard on getting nukes.

One thing that I do not believe that the general population - and even the somewhat sophisticated population - takes into account is just how unstable and megalomaniacal Kim Jong-Il is. Take three parts crazy, three parts sociopath, one part drunk, and add a dash of "knows he's gonna die soon, anyway" and you have a recipe for disaster. Then add a million parts of "population brainwashed for 60 years to be devoted minions" and you have real trouble.

Picture Jim Jones. Only instead of Jonestown he's got North Korea. And instead of Congressman Ryan's delegation he's got South Korea. And instead of small arms to blow off some faces he's got artillery, a million small arms and possible nukes that he's not afraid to use. And he has a population that doesn't question Dear Leader (kill enough people for long enough and the questions stop).

Do you think that Kim Jong-Il gives a shit whether they can prevail in the long run? He'll be dead, but he can take a whole lot of people with him.

Logistics support for two days? That's enough to get them to Seoul - which is only about 30 or 40 miles from the DMZ. Wihtout tactical nukes, we ain't stopping at LEAST 1 million screaming North Koreans prepared to die for Dear Leader and cause as much death and destruction as possible.

If Seoul is ruined (which it WILL be) then think of the financial ripples affecting the rest of the world.

So you've got a drunken despotic madman with nothing to lose up there in NoKo. What's to stop him?

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China wants to prop up North Korea and has long pressed the Kims to implement market reforms as China has. NK responded by first allowing market reforms, then cutting it all off and changing the currency, effectively robbing NK subjects of all their money

China's tune has changed quite a bit recently - thanks to NoKo's ballistic missile testing which China understands puts not only Shenyang at risk but also Beijing and even Shanghai.

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Oddly enough, the South has been in low-key negotiations with China about how they're both going to "take care of" the situation, as well as deal with the horde of refugees that will go both South and North.

China's still backing North Korea for this reason alone - as much as they covet the acquisition of the Northern part of the Korean peninsula, they don't want to deal with the huge refugee problem they'd have on their hands.

This is where China is the key player - if NoKo does try to invade the south it would be a very simple thing for China to itself roll south from the Liaoning and Jilin provinces into North Korea and take Pyongyang within 24 hours. The presence of China is the biiggest thing, I think, in preventing NoKo from moving south and why NoKo rabble rouses.

Any steps the US, Japan or SoKo takes to move north will result in retaliation by NoKo - and we'll certainly lose that battle without the use of tactical nukes. But NoKo doesn't want to make any first move, lest China roll in.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[zoobrothertom 5]

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Third - N.K. can only count on about 2 days of fuel for any troop movements until anything moving on the ground is destroyed.

Isn't it part of the warplan for NK to capture fuel stocks during the initial phase of an invasion.

Since you are there, what is the pulse of the populace on taking action/inaction?

Yep, that's probably their plan. It would be a mix of capturing fuel vs. having no air support to protect that moving vehicle(s).

The news over here played it up for about 24 hours of nonstop news/TV. Most of my friends are taking a wait and see attitude. This isn't the first time or even the biggest loss of life. It's just the biggest one recently.

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[murrays 0]

The NK are supported by the Chinese to also have a buffer zone between the US supported south and China. It's not all about a potential refugee problem. There is no way that China will accept a US supporter on its borders.

The news item I read today that , if true, is worrisome is that about 20,000 NK workers were called back to NK from Russia where they work in large self-contained and policed camps.

You'd like to think that Kim Jong-il is a rational human being behind all the bluster but who knows what he is truly capable of?

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey