N .vs. S Korea kicking off ... again.

[shropshire 0]

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North Korea has fired artillery shells across its western maritime border, prompting return fire from South Korea, reports say.

Dozens of the shells landed on a South Korean island, witnesses say.

A television station said some houses on the island were on fire, and Yonhap news agency said that four South Korean soldiers had been hurt.

South Korea has issued its highest non-wartime alert in response to the incident, the defence ministry said.

Source :BBC

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[skyrider 0]

Holy Fuck...World War is stairing us in the face.........

[shropshire 0]

They have these 'little tiffs' every now and then.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Rover 9]

North Korea is a basket case that exists due to the invasion of the Korean peninsular by the Japanese in 1912. After WW2 finished the territory the Japanese occupied part went to America / allies and the communists / resistance got the north. Skip to 2010 and the North still does not recognise the South - they are still technically at war - and the North hates Japan. If push comes to shove they have the ability and the will to park one on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. That will get everybodies attention......

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[Andy9o8 0]

Obviously they're getting low on blue-jeans, and need to re-stock.
They're like the mafia; every once in a while you need to pay them off to make them behave.

Just watch: very soon there will be a new trade/economic pact with N. Korea, on terms very favorable to them.

[Zep 0]

And about bloody time, One can only hope it really kicks off .
Tomorrow I'm off to the recruitment office.
I bagsey be the one that sits atop the bomb, Yeeeeeeha.

Gone fishing

[rushmc 18]

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Obviously they're getting low on blue-jeans, and need to re-stock.
They're like the mafia; every once in a while you need to pay them off to make them behave.

Just watch: very soon there will be a new trade/economic pact with N. Korea, on terms very favorable to them.

I had not paid attention to this from your perspective

Very interesting

I will be watching

Thanks!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Guest]

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Quote

North Korea has fired artillery shells across its western maritime border, prompting return fire from South Korea, reports say.

Dozens of the shells landed on a South Korean island, witnesses say.

A television station said some houses on the island were on fire, and Yonhap news agency said that four South Korean soldiers had been hurt.

South Korea has issued its highest non-wartime alert in response to the incident, the defence ministry said.

Source :BBC

I'm surprised this isn't George Bush's fault.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[rushmc 18]

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Quote

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North Korea has fired artillery shells across its western maritime border, prompting return fire from South Korea, reports say.

Dozens of the shells landed on a South Korean island, witnesses say.

A television station said some houses on the island were on fire, and Yonhap news agency said that four South Korean soldiers had been hurt.

South Korea has issued its highest non-wartime alert in response to the incident, the defence ministry said.

Source :BBC

I'm surprised this isn't George Bush's fault.

mh
.

Patience grasshopper, patience

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[muff528 3]

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Obviously they're getting low on blue-jeans, and need to re-stock.
They're like the mafia; every once in a while you need to pay them off to make them behave.

Just watch: very soon there will be a new trade/economic pact with N. Korea, on terms very favorable to them.

Yes, that and also the fact that the new "brilliant comrade" needs to show his military prowess and to elicit praise, adulation and support from the populace (who, themselves, probably need a distraction from their condition).

[Amazon 7]

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They have these 'little tiffs' every now and then.

Hey I just had an idea. Lets take all of our violent offenders and parachute them into N.K.

That should completely nut the "Great Leader" and his vociferous followers up.

The N.K. have a fairly large prison system and a well trained cadre of interrogators...


YOU ARE A SPY

[virgin-burner 1]

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They have these 'little tiffs' every now and then.

Hey I just had an idea. Lets take all of our violent offenders and parachute them into N.K.

That should completely nut the "Great Leader" and his vociferous followers up.

The N.K. have a fairly large prison system and a well trained cadre of interrogators...


YOU ARE A SPY

AL-EC BOODWIN

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[skycop 0]

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Obviously they're getting low on blue-jeans, and need to re-stock.
They're like the mafia; every once in a while you need to pay them off to make them behave.

Just watch: very soon there will be a new trade/economic pact with N. Korea, on terms very favorable to them.

Spot on, but we'll see just how much the SK's are willing to take. It'll be interesting regardless.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[JohnRich 4]

I'd like to hear from someone who knows artillery. This island is seven miles offshore from North Korea. Can artillery fire that far?
Can they do it with enough accuracy to hit what they want?

Okay, just looked up the 155 mm howitzer. Range: 15k meters, or 9 miles. So a shell can make it that far. But what about accuracy?

[Andy9o8 0]

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I'd like to hear from someone who knows artillery. This island is seven miles offshore from North Korea. Can artillery fire that far?
Can they do it with enough accuracy to hit what they want?

I don't remotely have the expertise you're seeking; but I recall that when the battleship USS New Jersey was stationed off the coast of Lebanon in 1983 to support US Marines in Beirut, and had a couple fire missions, it was reported that it could hurl its 16-inch shells some 20 miles with remarkable accuracy.

And now I'll sit back and defer to experts.

[virgin-burner 1]

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I'd like to hear from someone who knows artillery. This island is seven miles offshore from North Korea. Can artillery fire that far?
Can they do it with enough accuracy to hit what they want?

Okay, just looked up the 155 mm howitzer. Range: 15k meters, or 9 miles. So a shell can make it that far. But what about accuracy?

i know of artillery that has a radius of 25km; and they dont even need to look, it's that accurate!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[skycop 0]

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2F&h=81e91


This explains the arty situation, kinda scary.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Andy9o8 0]

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http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2F&h=81e91

This explains the arty situation, kinda scary.

That's always been the stock excuse for enabling North Korea's horseshit by means of holding our breath till we turn blue, followed by the predictable appeasement. And so long as we allow ourselves to be, in effect, checkmated by the geographic "hostage-ization" of Seoul, it will continue.

[skycop 0]

Once again,
I agree however, a potential conflict would be very bloody and destroy much of the infrastructure of the south. American troops in SK are merely a speed-bump to an all out invasion, it also opens the spectre of tactical nukes in a worst case scenario.
Most of the trade-offs aren't worth the risk in the south's eyes I guess. We'll see how much they will take this time.

Am I sensing a bit of hawkishness in you counselor?

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[matthewcline 0]

Yes they can and yes they are accurate with GPS and Radar guided rounds being common these days.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[billvon 2,426]

>But what about accuracy?

Many artillery shells are guided nowadays and are extremely accurate. M982 Excalibur is an example. 25 mile range, 60 foot accuracy.

[Andy9o8 0]

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American troops in SK are merely a speed-bump to an all out invasion,

US troops' principal (as contrasted with ostensible) function in SK has morphed over the decades. Nowadays, it is not so much to be a defense, as to be a trigger. The North cannot mount a land invasion of the South without direct combat with American forces; and as soon as that happens, it will trigger a massive response from the US, some of which, under present technology, can be delivered quite rapidly.

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it also opens the spectre of tactical nukes in a worst case scenario.

Well, I'd sure as hell much rather be the only kid on the peninsula to have them. The longer we dick around with the North's obvious nuke weapons program - which is designed not only for their own use but as a cash-generating finished good to market to rogue states and terrorists - the less time there will be until that lack of exclusivity becomes a reality, and not just a potential. Realities are a lot harder to take out than potentials.

The Israelis put this understanding to action when they took out the under-construction Iraqi nuclear reactor back in 1981.

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Am I sensing a bit of hawkishness in you counselor?

Only in effect; not in cause. I consider it realism, and I prefer to take my scenarios case-by-case. There are various ways to deal with other nations that present a threat; among them, diplomacy, containment, balance-of-power and direct confrontation, as well as all sorts of sub-groups and hybrids of each. And the study of history is valuable because, just like the wisdom individuals gain with age, it allows us to perceive recognizable patterns and rather accurately predict the resulting future course of events.

History has repeatedly shown us that there are some personalities, bullies themselves, who will only back down when faced with the certainty of punishing force. When faced with anything less than that, they will obfuscate, extort and bide for time, allowing them to keep growing stronger in the interim; and a stronger bully is much harder to deter (or defeat) than a stronger one.

US condemnation, alone, or even with "economic sanctions", will produce nothing. Even if only on a limited scale, the US needs to respond with some manner of actual force, because that is the only kind of language that will truly make a bully flinch.

[kelpdiver 2]

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and the North hates Japan. If push comes to shove they have the ability and the will to park one on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. That will get everybodies attention......

NK may hate Japan, but it needs the money that it gets from private renumerations, much like Mexico and the rest of Central America gets from legal/illegal aliens in the US.

[Guest]

North Korea is in no shape to mount any invasion of South Korea. Even the long-pampered NK troops are short on groceries these days.

Most of NK's conventional weapons are WW2 / early Cold War vintage, and they lost a lot of their logistical support when the Soviets went away. They haven't been able to modernize very much at all, let alone maintain what they've got, which is why they've been working so hard on getting nukes.

Once the last of the commie old-guard are dead up there, the Kims will be gone too, and North Korea will implode.

The only real problem in the whole scenario is China. China wants to prop up North Korea and has long pressed the Kims to implement market reforms as China has. NK responded by first allowing market reforms, then cutting it all off and changing the currency, effectively robbing NK subjects of all their money. So now the NK subjects are both broke AND starving.

Oddly enough, the South has been in low-key negotiations with China about how they're both going to "take care of" the situation, as well as deal with the horde of refugees that will go both South and North.

China's still backing North Korea for this reason alone - as much as they covet the acquisition of the Northern part of the Korean peninsula, they don't want to deal with the huge refugee problem they'd have on their hands. That and a commie fellow-traveler must be supported, no matter what. Consider also that a united Korea would bring democracy right up to the Chinese border. China doesn't like that possible outcome either.

Those are the answers you can give liberals when they say "Well how come you haven't invaded North Korea?! Huh?! Huh?!"

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[JohnRich 4]

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>But what about accuracy?

Many artillery shells are guided nowadays and are extremely accurate. M982 Excalibur is an example. 25 mile range, 60 foot accuracy.

Does North Korea have the commie equivalent of that?