billvon 2,435 #226 September 22, 2010 >Prove me wrong. Sure. You said that the pecking order for employment should be citizen, resident aliens, non resident aliens and others that do not qualify as the above but are not Illegally in this country. Skydekker then said that some of the groups you listed could not legally work in this country. You disagreed. You are wrong; some of the groups listed in fact cannot work legally in this country. For example, from the US State department website, under business (B-1) and pleasure (B-2) visas: "Visitors are not permitted to accept employment during their stay in the U.S." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #227 September 22, 2010 Quote So, I ask again, who is neither a resident alien nor a non-resident alien and allowed to work in the US and is exempt from paying taxes? Perhaps you could post a link to where either of us, (until you just did in the post I am replying to), mentioned anything about taxes regarding this discussion. Nice try at diversion and bait and switch though. Not really, I was being sarcastic.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #228 September 22, 2010 Quote>Prove me wrong. Sure. You said that the pecking order for employment should be citizen, resident aliens, non resident aliens and others that do not qualify as the above but are not Illegally in this country. Skydekker then said that some of the groups you listed could not legally work in this country. You disagreed. You are wrong; some of the groups listed in fact cannot work legally in this country. For example, from the US State department website, under business (B-1) and pleasure (B-2) visas: "Visitors are not permitted to accept employment during their stay in the U.S." And again, I state that any reasonably intelligent person would conclude by the statement that I was excluding any illegal employment.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,145 #229 September 22, 2010 QuoteAnd again, I state that any reasonably intelligent person would conclude by the statement that I was excluding any illegal employment. There is no legal employment possible in your fourth group. Therefor the conclsuion people are supposed to come to is impossible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #230 September 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteAnd again, I state that any reasonably intelligent person would conclude by the statement that I was excluding any illegal employment. There is no legal employment possible in your fourth group. Therefor the conclsuion people are supposed to come to is impossible. Wrong is a student a resident alien? Is a visiting Proff a resident alien?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,145 #231 September 22, 2010 QuotePerhaps you could post a link to where either of us, (until you just did in the post I am replying to), mentioned anything about taxes regarding this discussion. Nice try at diversion and bait and switch though. Fine, then just come up with an example of somebody in your fourth group, legally employed in the US. So far all your examples have been from your third group. You even stated you thought there were many more than the (wrong) ones you had already given. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #232 September 22, 2010 >And again, I state that any reasonably intelligent person would conclude >by the statement that I was excluding any illegal employment. Are you able to admit when you are wrong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,145 #233 September 22, 2010 QuoteWrong is a student a resident alien? Is a visiting Proff a resident alien? No, they are non-resident aliens, the third group in your list. Did you not read the page I linked? They give a pretty decent US definition of a resident and non-resident alien. Still waiting for an example from your fourth group. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #234 September 22, 2010 QuoteThere is no legal employment possible in your fourth group. Wrong. Assylees, refugees, Certain Citizens from the Federated States of Micronesia, or the Republic of the Marshall Islands are examples . . . Again - I am growing weary of doing your research for you. . . . and Again I propose to you that you prove me wrong.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #235 September 22, 2010 Quote>And again, I state that any reasonably intelligent person would conclude >by the statement that I was excluding any illegal employment. Are you able to admit when you are wrong? Yes, when I am. Are you? I will admit that my statement was not well thought out well enough, and I was wrong in assuming that it was enough to put my argument across.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,145 #236 September 22, 2010 QuoteAssylees, refugees, Asylees and refugees can apply for an EAD (work permit), depending on their time in country, they would be considered a resident alien or non-resident alien QuoteCertain Citizens from the Federated States of Micronesia, or the Republic of the Marshall Islands are examples . . . (you left out the Republic of Palau) They are allowed to freely work and travel to the US. However, since they are not a US Citizen or a US National, they are by definition an Alien. Hence, they would be considered a resident or non-resident alien, depending on how long they ahve been resideing in the country. See, resident alien or non-resident alien are distinctions made for tax purposes. (You asked earlier who brought up the subject of paying taxes...now you know the answer, YOU did by making the list) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #237 September 22, 2010 my list was better ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #238 September 22, 2010 Quotemy list was better ! Your list was ridiculous starting with item #1. We've been over that.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #239 September 22, 2010 Quotesome of the groups listed in fact cannot work legally in this country. One example of a group of people who are legally allowed to live in the USA but are not allowed to work are spouses (as well as their children) of people who have work visas, a work visa such as the NAFTA TN-1. The person holding the work visa is allowed to work (obviously), but their spouse and their children are not allowed to work. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #240 September 23, 2010 QuoteOne example of a group of people who are legally allowed to live in the USA but are not allowed to work are spouses (as well as their children) of people who have work visas, a work visa such as the NAFTA TN-1. The person holding the work visa is allowed to work (obviously), but their spouse and their children are not allowed to work. Some work visas (eg H, TN) forbid the spouses from working whereas others (eg L, E-3) allow spouses to work. Everyone involved--the main worker and their spouse/children (whether working or not)--is considered a nonresident alien for immigration purposes. One can be a resident alien for tax purposes but a nonresident alien for immigration purposes. Presumably the second and third categories (resident and nonresident aliens) take care of most aliens (noncitizens) since either they are resident or they aren't. The fourth category (none of the above) presumably consists of people who are in a legal limbo somewhere between nonresidence and residence."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #241 September 23, 2010 QuoteQuotemy list was better !Your list was ridiculous starting with item #1.We've been over that.i presume by that you mean you're opposed to u.s. americans having first priority for u.s. jobs ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #242 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote Quote my list was better ! Your list was ridiculous starting with item #1. We've been over that. i presume by that you mean you're opposed to u.s. americans having first priority for u.s. jobs ? U.S. Americans? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WALIARHHLII&feature=relatedStupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #243 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote >And again, I state that any reasonably intelligent person would conclude >by the statement that I was excluding any illegal employment. Are you able to admit when you are wrong? Yes, when I am. Are you? Sure he can, but only in his own head...never in public...but I'm guessing that thought would get lost in there...It's pretty big!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #244 September 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuotemy list was better ! Your list was ridiculous starting with item #1. We've been over that. i presume by that you mean you're opposed to u.s. americans having first priority for u.s. jobs ? No. I mean they already do. Illegals can't legally work at all.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #245 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote my list was better ! Your list was ridiculous starting with item #1.We've been over that. i presume by that you mean you're opposed to u.s. americans having first priority for u.s. jobs ? U.S. Americans? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WALIARHHLII&feature=related certainly not south americans , or all north americans , just the u.s. americans ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,145 #246 September 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteThere is no legal employment possible in your fourth group. Wrong. Assylees, refugees, Certain Citizens from the Federated States of Micronesia, or the Republic of the Marshall Islands are examples . . . Again - I am growing weary of doing your research for you. . . . and Again I propose to you that you prove me wrong. To get back to your "pecking order". Let's put this argument aside and let's assume that people from the Federated States of Micronesia are in that fourth and last group. Why, in your "pecking order" does somebody from those islands, who has legally lived and worked in the US for 25 years, have less right to employment than a foreign exchange student (non-resident alien on your list)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,145 #247 September 23, 2010 QuoteOne can be a resident alien for tax purposes but a nonresident alien for immigration purposes. This is simply not true. Resident and non-resident aliens are IRS definitions. They are only used for tax purposes. You can be a nonimmigrant resident alient, just as you can be a nonimmigrant non residential alien. Just as you can be either an immigrant resident alien or immigrant non-resident alien. QuoteThe fourth category (none of the above) presumably consists of people who are in a legal limbo somewhere between nonresidence and residence. No such thing. If you are a resident alien or non-resident alien, it by definition means you are legally allowed to work in the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #248 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote my list was better ! Your list was ridiculous starting with item #1. We've been over that. i presume by that you mean you're opposed to u.s. americans having first priority for u.s. jobs ? U.S. Americans? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WALIARHHLII&feature=related There's a lot more to America than the United States of America. I'm sure you know that..............now. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1981 to 1988 is 7 years-Kallend (oops, it's actually 8 years Kallend) The decade of the 80's was from 1980 to 1989. 10 years. If you remove 1980 and 1989 you have 1981 to 1988. 8 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #249 September 23, 2010 >Yes, when I am. Cool. >Are you? Yep, I'm often wrong. I just try to be right more often than I'm wrong (with varying degrees of success.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #250 September 23, 2010 Quote No. I mean they already do. Illegals can't legally work at all. So, do we enforce existing immigration laws until we can come up with a real, workable solution or do we just ignore the issue until it goes away?You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
