Deportation

[Kennedy 0]

I was wondering what folks thought. Since some posters are unwilling to answer the question outright, I thought I'd offer an anonymous option.

This isn't about AZ's new law or efforts to locate or prevent illegal immigration, just about what should be done when they are encountered by law enforcement.

(personally, I oppose racial profiling, think AZ making state law that is similar to federal law is acceptable - though unnecessary if the Feds took care of the border like they should - and I believe in tougher penalties and stronger enforcement against employing illegals)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Amazon 7]

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I was wondering what folks thought. Since some posters are unwilling to answer the question outright, I thought I'd offer an anonymous option.

This isn't about AZ's new law or efforts to locate or prevent illegal immigration, just about what should be done when they are encountered by law enforcement.

(personally, I oppose racial profiling, think AZ making state law that is similar to federal law is acceptable - though unnecessary if the Feds took care of the border like they should - and I believe in tougher penalties and stronger enforcement against employing illegals)

I support free rides to the country of origin for anyone found to not be in this country legally, and stiff fines and jail time for anyone who hires them...as aiding and abetting a criminal. PERIOD

[kallend 1,635]

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.... if the Feds took care of the border like they should ....

I hear the Feds are trying very hard to recruit more border patrol agents but aren't reaching the recruitment goal. Why don't YOU volunteer?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

While a federal job sounds nice and I considered pulling up stakes for TX, I just took a job that's got me living at the beach. Besides, I try to avoiding working for any employer who is likely to charge me with a felony and imprison me for doing the job within the law and as they trained me.

So, where do you stand on this, professor?

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[SkyDekker 1,130]

I can't answer the poll, I simply do not believe the issue to be that black and white. In general I believe that illegals should be sent back to the country of origin. However, I can think of examples in which case I would not support that.

[kallend 1,635]

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While a federal job sounds nice and I considered pulling up stakes for TX, I just took a job that's
has me living at the beach. Besides, I try to avoiding working for any employer who is likely to charge me with a felony and imprison me for doing the job within the law and as they trained me.

So, where do you stand on this, professor?

Whatever money is available to address the problem should be spent tracking down employers of illegals and prosecuting them.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[captain1976 0]

Send 'em back and make the experience memorable. IOW don't be too kind about it. This would discourage future attempts that we are paying for.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[Kennedy 0]

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Whatever money is available to address the problem should be spent tracking down employers of illegals and prosecuting them.

That answer seems to indicate you think illegals should not be deported. Is that the case?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

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I can't answer the poll, I simply do not believe the issue to be that black and white. In general I believe that illegals should be sent back to the country of origin. However, I can think of examples in which case I would not support that.

What might some of those examples be?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 3]

It's not a binary decision. It's simpler for people to see it that way, but it's not reality. Some cases will be clear cut, others would need to be judged depending on the situation.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wmw999 2,130]

I'm an analogies person. So if I have ants getting into my house, I do kill some of them. But that's a losing battle. I spend more time on making sure there's nothing attractive for them to come in for (i.e. I wipe the counters religiously etc), I check for anthills right next to the house, and I put a little effort into putting some insecticide where I see some.

But I spend the vast majority of my effort making sure the inside doesn't have anything to attract them. Having lived in Texas for a long time, it's been far and away the best way of keeping critters out that I've found.

So, yeah -- remove the incentive. Yelling at them and telling them not to come back, or killing them and leaving their little bodies on the patio isn't effective at all . And poisons mean I have to keep using them. Only by removing the incentive do they seem to stay away.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Casurf1978 0]

IMO it's a catch 22. If we don't deport them, they are in our legal system which we have to pay for. If we deport them, they go back with an 'education' they picked up while being in our jails. Look at what deporting MS13 members back to El Salvador has done for the gang. MS13 now is an international gang involved in everything from drug trafficing to gun running.

[billvon 2,406]

In general they should be deported. As with everything else, good judgment in such decisions is a better option than black and white rules.

[Kennedy 0]

So you avoid having incentive for ants to invade your house. Do you still get rid of the ones that do come in?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[BillyVance 34]

If they are illegals with no criminal record anywhere, then send them back.

If they are illegals with a criminal history or outstanding warrants, then process them, prove they're guilty, etc, and take them for a plane ride back to their home country, preferably in a tail-gate aircraft, only take a slight detour over the Gulf of Mexico or Gulf of California and shove them off the tailgate. They won't be a problem ever again.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[wmw999 2,130]

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Do you still get rid of the ones that do come in?

Since they're always going in and out, I kill some, but know for certain that I can't get the vast majority. My killing some is more for my own satisfaction -- they're running in and out all day while I'm not there. And even when I'm home I have other things to do besides waiting by the windowsill (where they tend to come in, and yes I have sealed it repeatedly) to kill them as they come in.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Kennedy 0]

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In general they should be deported. As with everything else, good judgment in such decisions is a better option than black and white rules.

OK, so guy A gets girl B pregnant in their home country. They cross a US border illegally and have the child. Child C is now a US citizen. A, B, and little citizen C run into Officer VonNovak. Regardless of the reason for the run in (meaning don't assume A or B are ax murders or otherwise felons):

Should they be allowed to stay?
Should they be charged with a crime?
Should they be deported and told they can apply for a "family reunificaiton as described in the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965?
What should the US government, and by extention Officer VonNovak, do?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Andy9o8 0]

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So you avoid having incentive for ants to invade your house. Do you still get rid of the ones that do come in?

Only certain ones. These ones get to stay:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3813498751_eab708f511.jpg

[SivaGanesha 2]

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OK, so guy A gets girl B pregnant in their home country. They cross a US border illegally and have the child. Child C is now a US citizen. A, B, and little citizen C run into Officer VonNovak. Regardless of the reason for the run in (meaning don't assume A or B are ax murders or otherwise felons):

Should they be allowed to stay?
Should they be charged with a crime?
Should they be deported and told they can apply for a "family reunificaiton as described in the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965?
What should the US government, and by extention Officer VonNovak, do?

In no case should they be allowed to stay.

Officer VonNovak should be opening an investigation to determine how they managed to make ends meet while living in the USA. Did they use fraudulent social security cards? Did they engage in day labor being paid solely in cash? Did they finance themselves through a life of crime (ie activities that would be criminal even for US citizens)?

If it is discovered, through this investigation, that others committed crimes allowing A and B to stay in the USA, then those people should be prosecuted.

In all cases A and B must leave the country. But how they leave the country will depend on whether they co-operate with vonNovak's investigation. If they co-operate, then they should be granted voluntary departure without prejudice. By this I mean that they leave but at any time in the future when they qualify for a legitimate visa, they will be welcome to return.

If they do NOT co-operate, then by the Fifth they cannot be forced to. But they should be prosecuted for any crimes for which evidence already exists (eg entering the country illegally) and after serving their sentences be forcibly deported. A long term bar to ever returning would then apply.

C is a US citizen. If there is a legal resident or citizen who is willing to take C in and assume some custody of C, then, at A and B's discretion, C may remain in the USA. If there is no responsible and legal adult in the USA willing to take responsibility for C, then C returns home with A and B and can come back to the USA as an adult.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[billvon 2,406]

>OK, so guy A gets girl B pregnant in their home country. They cross a US
>border illegally and have the child. Child C is now a US citizen. A, B, and
>little citizen C run into Officer VonNovak. Regardless of the reason for the
>run in (meaning don't assume A or B are ax murders or otherwise felons):

>Should they be allowed to stay?

C should be allowed to stay if she chooses (or if per parents choose.) She is a US citizen.

A and B should be deported.

Would Officer Kennedy deport the US citizen? If so, where would he put her?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Do you still get rid of the ones that do come in?

Since they're always going in and out, I kill some, but know for certain that I can't get the vast majority. My killing some is more for my own satisfaction -- they're running in and out all day while I'm not there. And even when I'm home I have other things to do besides waiting by the windowsill (where they tend to come in, and yes I have sealed it repeatedly) to kill them as they come in.

Wendy P.

In the short run, I have to nuke the point of entry and their primary routes with ant spray. Otherwise, it doesn't matter how clean the counter tops are, they keep looking around.

Let's not apply this solution directly to our border. Not healthy for the rest of us.

[skyrider 0]

For the very few that vote "Stay" what part of "Illegal" is confusing you?

[turtlespeed 212]

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>OK, so guy A gets girl B pregnant in their home country. They cross a US
>border illegally and have the child. Child C is now a US citizen. A, B, and
>little citizen C run into Officer VonNovak. Regardless of the reason for the
>run in (meaning don't assume A or B are ax murders or otherwise felons):

>Should they be allowed to stay?

C should be allowed to stay if she chooses (or if per parents choose.) She is a US citizen.

A and B should be deported.

Would Officer Kennedy deport the US citizen? If so, where would he put her?

Who cares for C when the parents are deported? By your comments, it is the american people, even though it is ONLY the parents responsibility to care for the child. They need to do that in the parents country.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Kennedy 0]

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>OK, so guy A gets girl B pregnant in their home country. They cross a US
>border illegally and have the child. Child C is now a US citizen. A, B, and
>little citizen C run into Officer VonNovak. Regardless of the reason for the
>run in (meaning don't assume A or B are ax murders or otherwise felons):

>Should they be allowed to stay?

C should be allowed to stay if she chooses (or if per parents choose.) She is a US citizen.

A and B should be deported.

Would Officer Kennedy deport the US citizen? If so, where would he put her?

Nope, US citizens shouldn't ever be (can't be?) deported from the US. Politicians like Congressman Duncan D. Hunter are no better than politicians who want to ignore other parts of the constitution. He is either ignorant of what the constitution and amendments say, an all too common condition of politicians, or he is knowingly and willfully breaking his oath to support and defend.

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"I, (name of Member), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

As to where little C goes, that is up to his/her parents. They can take him or her back to their home country, find suitible care-takers here in the states, or give her into custody as a ward of the state.

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[funjumper101 15]

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I can't answer the poll, I simply do not believe the issue to be that black and white. In general I believe that illegals should be sent back to the country of origin. However, I can think of examples in which case I would not support that.

What might some of those examples be?

Simple black and white answers to these issues do not exist. That makes this poll completely stupid.

When a child is brought into the US illegally at a very young age, like under 5, and spends their childhood and teenage years in the USA, they have become, in every meaningful way, a member of this society. They went to school, church, played with other kids, and grew up HERE, not there.

You judgemental racist assholes that can't tell right from wrong would be in favor of deporting such a person. No consideration for the cruelty and inhumanity such a thing would be. Sending someone back to a country where they knew no one, had no roots or history, and no way to fit back into that society is fine by you sons of bitches. Your kind is EXACTLY what is seriously wrong with the USA. You have no compassion or consideration for extant circumstances. I would suggest that you try to put yourself in that person's shoes. You might learn something.

I'll be you all go to church and think you're christian, too.

Is murdering "illegals" by tossing them out of tailgate airplanes really in tune with the values of the USA? That was a sarcastic joke, right?

Anyone who performed such an act should be tried and convicted of first degree murder and put in prison for life, with no possibility of parole.