Deportation

[rushmc 18]

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>Not necessarily.

Agreed. Now, if your parents have you in Mexico, then transport you into the US when you are a few days old, and do not tell you for 20 years - are you responsible for the "crime" you committed?

Yes

Again
a parents actions can have a huge effect on your life.

As stated, ignorance is no excuse. And now that you know you must take the steps to fix it. At this point they become responcible for self

Compassionless conservatism at its finest...

That kind of thinking is totally disgusting to those of us who actually understand what this country "used" to stand for.

In reference to the repeated calls by some for ALL illegals to be deported, no matter what the circumstances are, so much for justice and reasonable application of the law. These concepts are beyong comprehension of the conservatards. Stunted moral development is really nasty when it rears its ugly head.

And your moral compass indicates you lie about those you do not agree with and that no one should be held to account for thier actions. Such a sweet boy

I will keep mine thank you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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So being a good Samaritan is no defense against breaking a different law?

To answer YOUR question

You are responsible for you own actions.
Crime = time
Actions = consequence
Being a Good Samaritan does not erase ones transgressions

Do you think Elian Gonzales should have been deported?

Dont know the details except to say the way he was taken was bull shit. And I think his was more of a custodial debate but again
I dont know the details

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

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Okay, so the honest people who take the time and effort to come across legally are basically punished while those who dishonestly cross the borders can stay if they have a sad enough sob story? Whats the point it doing it legally then?

A person with financial resources always has a huge incentive to stay on the "good" side of the law. A person fleeing from political persecution or impoverishment may choose to ignore certain laws in order to survive.

A person does a cost/benefit analysis: would I be any worse off if I crossed legally or not? What is my immediate need just to survive?

I'm pretty sure that would be the case for me and probably you as well.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SivaGanesha 2]

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A person with financial resources always has a huge incentive to stay on the "good" side of the law. A person fleeing from political persecution or impoverishment may choose to ignore certain laws in order to survive.

The USA has a FAR higher unemployment rate than its immediate neighbor Mexico. I do not think mere survival is the issue at least for the majority of illegal immigrants who hail from Mexico.

True an employed person in the USA is, in general, much better off than an employed person in Mexico. There is definitely an economic draw. But I take issue with the claim that the draw is related to matters of physical survival.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[Amazon 7]

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Well, law isn't as important as FEELINGS, we should play favorites and just enforce the law when it makes some people feel good.

Funny thing is, you are exactly right....

How many of you will check the legal status of the packer you are paying for at your next boogie?

How many of you have contacted the organizers of Skyfest to make sure the proper licenses are in place for the raffle taking place during that boogie?

How many of you in Texas, or who know people in Texas make sure there are not more than six sex toys in the house?

Oh wait, those laws aren't that important to you? Would that be based on feelings? Would common sense dictate some of those laws might be kind of stupid?

MAN am I glad I didn't know that and managed to get the hell out of TEXAS in just 2 days last month.. hell I even took two handguns there with me in my checked baggage....amoung other things

That is like a TOTAL deal breaker

[Amazon 7]

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OMG I found something me and Amazon 100% agree on!! If John Rich agrees with us hell will freeze over today for sure

Hey I can also agree that people with a fat ass fall fast too.....

[Shotgun 1]

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How many of you in Texas, or who know people in Texas make sure there are not more than six sex toys in the house?

MAN am I glad I didn't know that and managed to get the hell out of TEXAS in just 2 days last month.. hell I even took two handguns there with me in my checked baggage....amoung other things

That is like a TOTAL deal breaker

I'm pretty sure that law was overturned a couple of years ago. As it should have been a long time ago. Well, actually, it never should have existed, but I think that a lot of states have had similar laws in the past.

[quade 3]

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A person with financial resources always has a huge incentive to stay on the "good" side of the law. A person fleeing from political persecution or impoverishment may choose to ignore certain laws in order to survive.

The USA has a FAR higher unemployment rate than its immediate neighbor Mexico. I do not think mere survival is the issue at least for the majority of illegal immigrants who hail from Mexico.
True an employed person in the USA is, in general, much better off than an employed person in Mexico. There is definitely an economic draw. But I take issue with the claim that the draw is related to matters of physical survival.

Who said anything about Mexico?

Here's the post I was responding to:

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Okay, so the honest people who take the time and effort to come across legally are basically punished while those who dishonestly cross the borders can stay if they have a sad enough sob story? Whats the point it doing it legally then?

There is still an incentive for those people that would like to enter the country and do so through completely legal means following straight "by the book" procedures.

I also recognize, however, that in a cost/benefit analysis, for some people that might not be their best option.

Understand, it is a substantial monetary investment for them to attempt it and fairly dangerous as well all while offering no guarantee of success.

Why the hell would somebody put themselves through that if they didn't have a huge incentive? One like fleeing a shithole existence in their home country.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Understand, it is a substantial monetary investment for them to attempt it and fairly dangerous as well all while offering no guarantee of success.

A lot of whuffos would say much the same thing about skydiving. There are always going to be those who are willing to take risks to gain a perceived benefit. It doesn't necessarily follow that their prior life was in a hellhole.

More than half of illegal immigrants come from Mexico so it seems to me that if you are talking about general motivations for coming illegally that discussion must include Mexico. There may be more specific discussions related to other countries that one could have as well.

Here is the reference for the unemployment rates:

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/53/45/45174490.pdf

The USA has had a rough time in recent years compared to other countries. Any appeal to US voters to have 'compassion' that doesn't include compassion for unemployed US workers is likely to fall on deaf ears and rightly so.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[funjumper101 15]

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>Not necessarily.

Agreed. Now, if your parents have you in Mexico, then transport you into the US when you are a few days old, and do not tell you for 20 years - are you responsible for the "crime" you committed?

Yes

Again
a parents actions can have a huge effect on your life.

As stated, ignorance is no excuse. And now that you know you must take the steps to fix it. At this point they become responcible for self

Compassionless conservatism at its finest...

That kind of thinking is totally disgusting to those of us who actually understand what this country "used" to stand for.

In reference to the repeated calls by some for ALL illegals to be deported, no matter what the circumstances are, so much for justice and reasonable application of the law. These concepts are beyong comprehension of the conservatards. Stunted moral development is really nasty when it rears its ugly head.

And your moral compass indicates you lie about those you do not agree with and that no one should be held to account for thier actions. Such a sweet boy

I will keep mine thank you

Where have I lied about you?

Where have I ever written that I do not believe that people should be held to account for their actions?

What a load of bullshit!!!

You and your kind are the ones that want to let ShrubCo slide on all of their illegal activities. I believe that the powerful people in the world should be held to account for their crimes just as much, if not MORE SO, as the petty criminals should. You appear to believe that only the "little people"should be held to account, while the powerful get a pass.

That, Marc, is truly disgusting, no matter how you parse it.

Compassionless conservatism is a VERY accurate description.

[quade 3]

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Understand, it is a substantial monetary investment for them to attempt it and fairly dangerous as well all while offering no guarantee of success.

A lot of whuffos would say much the same thing about skydiving. There are always going to be those who are willing to take risks to gain a perceived benefit. It doesn't necessarily follow that their prior life was in a hellhole.

Are you suggesting they pay the coyotes their life savings and walk through the desert for fun? That to them it's simply paying sherpa to climb Mount Everest?

That's silly.

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The USA has had a rough time in recent years compared to other countries. Any appeal to US voters to have 'compassion' that doesn't include compassion for unemployed US workers is likely to fall on deaf ears and rightly so.

If you think the recent events in Arizona have anything to do with the unemployment rate, then your focus shouldn't be on people trying to better themselves, but rather the companies that are hiring the illegals and providing the incentive for them to come here in the first place.

Companies that hire illegals do the country a far bigger disservice and are more UNAmerican, than the illegals themselves.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Are you suggesting they pay the coyotes their life savings and walk through the desert for fun? That to them it's simply paying sherpa to climb Mount Everest?

That's silly.

I think they perceive that their lives are going to be more fun when they get to the USA. If they have life savings to part with in the first place they are doing a lot better than many unemployed Americans these days.

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If you think the recent events in Arizona have anything to do with the unemployment rate, then your focus shouldn't be on people trying to better themselves, but rather the companies that are hiring the illegals and providing the incentive for them to come here in the first place.

Organizations such as NumbersUSA and ALIPAC have been lobbying for laws such as Arizona's for at least a decade now. The fact that the politicians are now acting rather than talking is, indeed, closely related to the unemployment rate. I actually agree that the first target should be the companies that hire illegals. Arizona has already taken that first step by making E-Verify mandatory in Arizona.

But I object to phrases like the "illegals are just trying to better themselves". Apologists for the illegals always try to use such phrases as though people should bow down and worship these lofty illegals who have such a noble purpose in life.

I would put it more bluntly and honestly--the illegals are trying to make more money. That's not wrong in and of itself. But there are legal and illegal ways of doing so. Bernie Madoff was just trying to make more money too. Are we now to start worshipping Bernie because he was "just trying to better himself"?

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[rushmc 18]

Read your own post my friend. Backs up all I stated

And you said it. I didnt

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[redlegphi 0]

I reply to this inadequate poll with a pair of apocryphal stories.

1) A man breaks into your house, rapes your wife, kills your dog, and steals your TV. While leaving your house, an illegal immigrant sees him and could desribe him to the police. Why would that immigrant go to the police to help them solve the crime if he's afraid that they'll deport his happy ass once they're done taking his statement?

2) An illegal immigrant has a contagious, but treatable disease. In the normal course of his day, he interacts with dozens of American citizens and their food. Would you prefer he go to the hospital to get treated or that he be afraid to go to the hospital because they might deport him if they find out his immigration status?

In short, illegal immigration isn't a black and white issue. I think illegal immigrants found committing a crime should be deported. I think those found by the INS should be deported. I think it would behoove our society (through lower crime rates and better disease prevention) if illegal immigrants aren't afraid to talk to normal police or go to a hospital. I think you need to weigh each case individually, because the 26 year old immigrant who just crossed last week isn't the same as the 19 year old who has lived in America for 16 years and was brought here illegally by his parents. I also think Wendy's right: if we hammer the businesses that hire illegal immigrants, there'll be less incentive for them to come or stay here, which would allow a lot of the problem to fix itself.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I reply to this inadequate poll with a pair of apocryphal stories.

Aw, that's nothing. The analogies in this thread have been smashing, so here's mine:

You're having a dinner party, and the cake you're baking falls. You don't have time to bake another because you've just done your nails and they're still wet. So you go upstairs to shower, and have a good cry.

While you're upstairs consoling yourself by "exfoilating" with your loofa, a pastry chef breaks in to your house and whips up the finest brandied berry compote this side of the French Culinary Institute. The party is saved!

Now the dilemma: It turns out that not only is the pastry chef an alien without a visa, he really is an alien: he's from another planet. Do we still let him appear on "Cake Boss"?

[funjumper101 15]

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Read your own post my friend. Backs up all I stated

And you said it. I didnt

Marc, as usual, can't answer direct questions that challenge his beliefs, so he resorts to evasive bullshit.

SSDD


Compassionless conservatism is NOT a good thing.

Where are the links to your posts that call for Shrub and Cheney the Dick to be held accountable for their crimes?
They don't exist. I can find many posts over the years where you defend them and their actions.

Face it, Marc. You are EXACTLY as described in my previous posts, as much as you would like to deny it.

The truth can be very painful.

[Zep 0]

Now that all depends on if the alien is a illegal alien alien or just a illegal alien
I would think that a illegal cake baking alien alien may have a whole different set of rights
as returning the illegal alien alien to an alien planet could be alien to the governments
plans on first contact with an alien


What do you think?

Gone fishing

[Andy9o8 0]

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What do you think?

Dunno. It's all Greek to me.

[rushmc 18]

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What do you think?

Dunno. It's all Greek to me.

...as is common sense.....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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I'm pretty sure that law was overturned a couple of years ago.

Yes, you are right. I was working form old information. Turns out it was overturned by a federal appeals court.

Reasoning: against the 14th Amendment of the constitution.

[kallend 1,651]

Applies to LEGAL immigrants, but the Supremes just ruled unanimously against deportation of an immigrant.

www.nytimes.com/2010/06/15/us/15scotus.html

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.