mnealtx 0 #476 January 17, 2012 QuoteI said there are flaws, your trying to make it a post sale registration. Why not at time of sale? right along with the background check? (Why isn't that illegal?) Because until the sale is completed, the gun still belongs to the shop, and because the 1143 you fill out to buy the gun in the first place *ALREADY* has all the info, so why is a separate registration needed? QuoteAnd, again the effort should be on the Laws or Ownership and the Right to Bear Arms. Which is why people are against the registration scenario, it does nothing to stop crime. QuotePut all the time money and effort into that, I support that. Matt If you could show where it is taking anything away from the other side of the effort, you might have a point.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #477 January 17, 2012 So, it can be all part of the same form. That seems smart to me, cost effective too. But if the background check and registration are all one, then the back ground check will deny a known criminal (Or a court deemed "nutter") a gun. The NRA is asking for money to fight on behalf for BOTH efforts. Make it one effort, the Right to Bear Arms, period. I think the unspoken reality is it is easier to fight registration laws than for Constitutional Laws. But, I am not a lawyer. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #478 January 17, 2012 Quote It is one persona, I never personally bad mouthed any individual, the two hurt but it, personally put it on them selves. The "educate me" was a little snarky, but the example given back was flawed, it even went from two to one example. I though t I was answering direct replies, like now, I thought that was how a forum works. I generally translate snarky to passive aggressive bullshit, and you're shoveling it out pretty well. I also save myself time by not engaging until you pick a side - want to have a real conversation? Great? Maybe I'll participate. Instead want to play internet pig? If I have time/interest, I'll play. Want to have it both ways? Have fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #479 January 17, 2012 QuoteSo, it can be all part of the same form. That seems smart to me, cost effective too. And yet AGAIN....Fed.gov ALREADY HAS THE INFO, so WHY is this registration that criminals WON'T be participating in needed? HOW is that cost effective in ANY way? QuoteBut if the background check and registration are all one, then the back ground check will deny a known criminal (Or a court deemed "nutter") a gun. Then WHY is the registration needed, again? QuoteThe NRA is asking for money to fight on behalf for BOTH efforts. Make it one effort, the Right to Bear Arms, period. So, you've got no concrete evidence that anything is being taken away from the general effort by anti-registration efforts? QuoteI think the unspoken reality is it is easier to fight registration laws than for Constitutional Laws. But, I am not a lawyer. Matt That *may* be true...but it's equally true that the fight against unconstitutional laws is still ongoing, regardless of anti-registration efforts.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #480 January 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteHe wants all guns banned but knows it isn't popular to say so. Nope. Don't want that, never wrote that. Strawman arguments don't work too well here. Walk a mile in the other guys shoes, for a moment.... You, are now a gun store owner. A guy walks in and wants to buy a weapon. You obtain the buyers ID; call the authorities, and run a check...the guy is clean. It's perfectly legal to sell him a weapon. Yet you suspect that he's a nutter and tell him to bugger off!!! How long do you think it will take for his lawyers letter to get to you? Yes, this is another way of asking you the same question previously posted by others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #481 January 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteHe wants all guns banned but knows it isn't popular to say so. Nope. Don't want that, never wrote that. Strawman arguments don't work too well here. Walk a mile in the other guys shoes, for a moment.... You, are now a gun store owner............Yet you suspect that he's a nutter and tell him to bugger off!!! How long do you think it will take for his lawyers letter to get to you? Am I reading it correctly that a shop owner cannot refuse to sell to anyone....for whatever reason? Were I the shop owner, I'd make good use of the lawyers letter. The bird cage needs new flooring.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #482 January 18, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote He wants all guns banned but knows it isn't popular to say so. Nope. Don't want that, never wrote that. Strawman arguments don't work too well here. Walk a mile in the other guys shoes, for a moment.... You, are now a gun store owner............Yet you suspect that he's a nutter and tell him to bugger off!!! How long do you think it will take for his lawyers letter to get to you? Am I reading it correctly that a shop owner cannot refuse to sell to anyone....for whatever reason? Were I the shop owner, I'd make good use of the lawyers letter. The bird cage needs new flooring. Yeah.... Right. Have you ever gotten a lawyers letter? If you say you have, and then ignored it..... Not believable. You may end up living in that bird cage, if you do.Calling Dr. Kallend... Calling Dr. Kallend... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #483 January 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHe wants all guns banned but knows it isn't popular to say so. Nope. Don't want that, never wrote that. Strawman arguments don't work too well here. Walk a mile in the other guys shoes, for a moment.... You, are now a gun store owner............Yet you suspect that he's a nutter and tell him to bugger off!!! How long do you think it will take for his lawyers letter to get to you? Am I reading it correctly that a shop owner cannot refuse to sell to anyone....for whatever reason? Were I the shop owner, I'd make good use of the lawyers letter. The bird cage needs new flooring. I've heard of gun shops not selling to someone who seemed a bit off....no clue how common or uncommon it is, though.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #484 January 18, 2012 Quote Yeah.... Right. Have you ever gotten a lawyers letter? If you say you have, and then ignored it..... Not believable. You may end up living in that bird cage, if you do.Calling Dr. Kallend... Calling Dr. Kallend... Well, yes, I have. I lied about the bird cage though. It was a pet field rat I named Frisky. "May" was your key word. Kallend? Did somebody recently raise the question of people responding out of their field?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #485 January 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHe wants all guns banned but knows it isn't popular to say so. Nope. Don't want that, never wrote that. Strawman arguments don't work too well here. Walk a mile in the other guys shoes, for a moment.... You, are now a gun store owner............Yet you suspect that he's a nutter and tell him to bugger off!!! How long do you think it will take for his lawyers letter to get to you? Am I reading it correctly that a shop owner cannot refuse to sell to anyone....for whatever reason? Were I the shop owner, I'd make good use of the lawyers letter. The bird cage needs new flooring. I've heard of gun shops not selling to someone who seemed a bit off....no clue how common or uncommon it is, though. Here's the entire post. (Spinners.. What won't they do for attention?) Walk a mile in the other guys shoes, for a moment.... You, are now a gun store owner. A guy walks in and wants to buy a weapon. You obtain the buyers ID; call the authorities, and run a check...the guy is clean. It's perfectly legal to sell him a weapon. Yet you suspect that he's a nutter and tell him to bugger off!!! How long do you think it will take for his lawyers letter to get to you? Yes, this is another way of asking you the same question previously posted by others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #486 January 18, 2012 Quote I've heard of gun shops not selling to someone who seemed a bit off....no clue how common or uncommon it is, though. Hopefully more common than not? If I were a gun shop owner, I couldn't but help feeling some responsibility for selling the weapon to some suspicious person who then quickly proved themselves a nutter. Yes, yes, I'm no qualified psychobabble pro so you fine outstanding gentlemen may wind up buying from somebody else. Meh, such is life.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #487 January 18, 2012 Quote Here's the entire post. (Spinners.. What won't they do for attention?) Walk a mile in the other guys shoes, for a moment.... You, are now a gun store owner. A guy walks in and wants to buy a weapon. You obtain the buyers ID; call the authorities, and run a check...the guy is clean. It's perfectly legal to sell him a weapon. Yet you suspect that he's a nutter and tell him to bugger off!!! How long do you think it will take for his lawyers letter to get to you? Yes, this is another way of asking you the same question previously posted by others. I dunno but most of them can read the entire post.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #488 January 18, 2012 Quote Quote Here's the entire post. (Spinners.. What won't they do for attention?) Walk a mile in the other guys shoes, for a moment.... You, are now a gun store owner. A guy walks in and wants to buy a weapon. You obtain the buyers ID; call the authorities, and run a check...the guy is clean. It's perfectly legal to sell him a weapon. Yet you suspect that he's a nutter and tell him to bugger off!!! How long do you think it will take for his lawyers letter to get to you? Yes, this is another way of asking you the same question previously posted by others. I dunno but most of them can read the entire post. What's your point? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #489 January 18, 2012 Quote Quote Here's the entire post. (Spinners.. What won't they do for attention?) Walk a mile in the other guys shoes, for a moment.... You, are now a gun store owner. A guy walks in and wants to buy a weapon. You obtain the buyers ID; call the authorities, and run a check...the guy is clean. It's perfectly legal to sell him a weapon. Yet you suspect that he's a nutter and tell him to bugger off!!! How long do you think it will take for his lawyers letter to get to you? Yes, this is another way of asking you the same question previously posted by others. I dunno but most of them can read the entire post. HAH........ OK, an EM explained it. You have to drive to Mickey D's to satisfy you munchie attack, again. Enjoy it, You're a big boy, but that stuff can harm your lungs. Just sayin'...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #490 January 18, 2012 What's "EM"? The question was about store-owner options. So, you got your panties wadded up. Well, I thought I was talking to a mature adult. I was wrong...so...never mind.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #491 January 18, 2012 Quote What's "EM"? The question was about store-owner options. So, you got your panties wadded up. Well, I thought I was talking to a mature adult. I was wrong...so...never mind. Bullschidt...... You just wanted to stir some shit,as Christalsabine says.Store options....? Store options..! Complete bullschidt. you still ain't got a point to offer in this entire thread. Pathetic....... go to Mickey D's and have a burger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #492 January 18, 2012 Thank you for proving my point. G'day, sir.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #493 January 18, 2012 Quote Thank you for proving my point. G'day, sir. The mystery deepens........Sorry if you're all pissed, and have veins popping all over....... but that stuff is not good for you. Tends to alter your........... ah, whatever, you're a big boy. Calling Dr. Kallend, Calling Dr. Kallend.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #494 January 18, 2012 Mike, if the GOV has all the info then it is more or less, registered? Again, I can't see a "down side" to the registration. Only some speculation that the GOV will use it one day to come take all your guns. Honest question, why is it not needed? Other than an NRA Rep asking for money for that particular cause as well as membership dues and the 2nd Amendment fight, no no concrete "Evidence". MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #495 January 18, 2012 Quote Again, I can't see a "down side" to the registration. Only some speculation that the GOV will use it one day to come take all your guns. You could look up the cost. The Canadians' experience is telling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #496 January 18, 2012 QuoteAgain, I can't see a "down side" to the registration. Only some speculation that the GOV will use it one day to come take all your guns. Speculation? Have you read ANYTHING people have written? California used registration info to confiscate SKS rifles under color of law. Canada has used registration info to confiscate guns. QuoteHonest question, why is it not needed? How about you finally buck up and explain how it's going to do ANY sort of good? Lessening crime is out, since criminals cannot be forced to register due to 5th Amendment issues (incriminating themselves, since felons cannot be in possession of firearms). So, what PURPOSE do you see the registration database being used for? What problem is it supposedly going to solve that can't be managed with info the gov't already has?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #497 January 19, 2012 OMG! Another nutter with a gun: This nutter left a handgun readily accessible in his home while his teenage daughter was home alone. What they heck was he thinking!? This gun should have been locked up so that the poor girl didn't have access to it. And now look at what has happened... Story: http://www.webcitation.org/64jJjwhj3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #498 January 19, 2012 QuoteOMG! Another nutter with a gun: This nutter left a handgun readily accessible in his home while his teenage daughter was home alone. What they heck was he thinking!? This gun should have been locked up so that the poor girl didn't have access to it. And now look at what has happened... Story: http://www.webcitation.org/64jJjwhj3 I gotta say, John. In this case, the girl got lucky. Best case scenario happened here. Dad screwed up not locking it up when the kid was home alone and not trained to use it. My preference is to teach the kid how to use it responsibly and then let her know where the key is to go get it if needed. Else lock it up - the kid doesn't know how to handle it. My daughter knows and respects guns. But I lock mine up, (law here is lock them up if minors live in the house anyway, but that's not why.) mainly because she can have friends over and I don't know if they are trained and responsible. anyway - the kid's intention to protect her home and property is commendable - though I'd have preferred she just got away and called the cops edit: I don't mean "trained" such as ready to kill, moving target range, etc. Just trained to load, unload, use the safety, shoot straight, respect the tool - before leaving it accessible. As for her choice to confront vs run? that's an entirely different discussion ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #499 January 19, 2012 Here's another example of why citizens of Chicago can't be trusted to carry guns like all the other states in the nation. Story: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/01/17/pit-bull-attack-victim-these-were-not-just-regular-dogs/ By gosh, if this man had possessed a gun during this pit bull attack, he might have started shooting wildly at the dogs and injured innocent bystanders. It's too bad the dogs ripped his foot off, but that's a small price to pay for gun safety for the general public. Let's leave the guns to the cops, as they eventually did what needed to be done here to end the attack, and it's just too bad for the victim that it took them too long to get there to save his foot. Oh well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #500 January 19, 2012 Quotethe kid's intention to protect her home and property is commendable - though I'd have preferred she just got away and called the cops It's not the home and property that I would be worried about. Two burglars finding a 15-year-old girl coming out of the shower, could easily lead to rape and murder. I'm glad she had a gun with which to drive off the intruders and save herself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites