Is humanity meant to survive?

[mutumbo 0]

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" its our NATURE to destroy ourselves. "

from the Terminator 2 movie...."Its in your nature to destroy yourselves"

and, I agree.

Exactly where i got it from

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[squirrel 0]

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" its our NATURE to destroy ourselves. "

from the Terminator 2 movie...."Its in your nature to destroy yourselves"

and, I agree.

Exactly where i got it from

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[pontiacgtp00 0]

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Forget your Prozac today???

Wouldn't matter if he forgot to take it today since Prozac has a half life of 3 or 4 days.

[ridestrong 1]

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Forget your Prozac today???

Wouldn't matter if he forgot to take it today since Prozac has a half life of 3 or 4 days.

Werd...

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[diablopilot 2]

Society will not survive. It can't by it's current nature.

Humanity on the other hand, well..... Never underestimate the ability of the human ANIMAL to adapt and survive.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[airtwardo 6]

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What i'm looking for is any evidence whatsoever (for and against) which might determine the fate of humanity.

Soylent Green is people.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[lurch 0]

Relax, man.
One way or another the species will be here for awhile.
Remember the machines from the Matrix? "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept."
Human species strikes me as likely to get knocked down to medieval again sometime soon, but "soon" means sometime in the next 200 years depending on when the gas runs out.

I think corruption, decadence, poor priorities and waste will mean the system fails and the matrix crashes before we hit the next major transcendant technological singularity necessary to maintain the growth and existence of society as we know it... Fusion, for example. If we get that before society fails far enough not to be able to afford luxuries like fusion research, we might just make it. If we don't, we go down with the oil supply, half the planet turns back into fucking africa, airlines and cheap electronic consumer products become a thing of the past and technology is restricted to the spectacularly wealthy who can still afford the energy.

Humans are like crabs in a bucket. Highest priority isn't pulling selves up, its pulling the others down.
They don't know any better. Give em a few thousand more years to learn better.
Question is, are you determined enough to make something bright out of life that you can keep climbing out of the bucket even with half a dozen other crabs hanging off your back? Think taxes and welfare.
I heard Phil Collins moved to fucking switzerland because in the UK the tax rate on people who achieve an income like his get taxed at over 90%. Can you imagine being him? You make it big, real big, dozens of millions, and the government says tough shit, you make so much we're taking almost ALL of it?

Now imagine what would happen if you gave him back all the money the government took before he moved. How many tens of millions? Instead of giving it away to millions on the dole, he could have started entire fucking industries, created jobs, modern standards of living and productive growth for entire geographic regions. If he were so inclined.

When things fall apart badly enough people get fucking sick of it, break it all down or move away and start over, in a more resource restricted and hostile environment if necessary. Those who can, flee, those who can't starve or die in the wars. Again, look at africa. Half of those societies are so fallen that if everyone woke up became smart and started working together instead of hacking each other to bits with machetes over stupid shit it'd take them 400 years to self-develop to a standard of living and society equivalent to, say, ordinary suburban USA.

Personally I'd like to see a new state form up somewhere hostile but resource-rich for the technically clever. Kinda like that silly "Free State Project" that tried to set itself up in New Hampshire except a lot more serious. Up on the edge of the arctic maybe, center of canada, way up in the vast empty spaces up there just far enough south that theres still trees. Build a city based on forest products, planting as much as you cut, get as many industries up there as you can find an excuse for.
Come up with a gimmick, how bout "goverment should earn its keep". No or low taxes, pay for services you use and nothing else. Just scrap the whole system and start the fuck over, reboot. Build a system based on whats best for survival, not what pleases the largest number of idiots. In a society made exclusively of people free and tough enough to move up there and start over you have a natural vetting process for your society. Civilization is first and foremost an IDEA. Make it "cool" to be polite civilized and caring. Deliberate formality, manners. Where the coolest ambition of the kids isn't to be on fucking american idol or be a "ganksta", its "to be a productive motherfucker" or "To take care of each other, be excellent to one another, and party on dudes!"

Try to come up with a system of government that fixes the stuff thats terminally broken with western civilization, some kind of honor responsibility and merit based politics where the job goes to the guy most fit for the job, not the guy with the most wealthy sponsors.

Our entire civilization is underlain by the basic concept of people doing things TO each other. Forced compliance at every turn.
How about rewriting the rules so people WANT to behave themselves? Take pride in it? Render the entire system of forced compliance unnecessary because people don't fucking act like animals when unsupervised by cops with guns.
Imagine a world where you don't see assholes on "cops" whose priorities in life are "score some meth" "slap my bitch up cause she dissed me" or "rip this guy off/sell him something bullshit or fake". Because nobody in OUR society would be that fucking uncivilized.

How about a common social belief and way of life that considers doing things TO each other unthinkable and values doing things WITH and FOR each other instead?

Cute utopian idea. If we could get about half a million people on board with it and willing to live it it'd be a start. I ain't trying to make that real because it isn't time yet and when it IS time, there'll be people far more qualified and wealthy enough to try it and fuck it up much worse than I could. I'm cynical like that.

In the meantime, crack a beer, try not to worry about the awful big picture and perk yourself up by doing something nice for someone today totally at random. It may feel small and futile but it helps. The Matrix wasn't built all at once...in the 1950's digital data was constructed literally bit-by-bit, one vacuum tube at a time. Now it is a global network of media and internet where more bits are in existence in any given second than there are stars in the next several hundred GALAXIES combined. Hundreds of billions OF hundreds of billions of bits. If positive civilized behavior grew like that we'd have utopian societies (at least by our standards) in every star system as fast as humanity could expand within centuries.
The internet and digital universe grew like that because it was USEFUL. A polite happy thriving society is also useful and I think will evolve inevitably on its own given half a chance and a few more thousand years. Maybe less, if we could propagate the idea like a religion except not as diseased. Its not going to happen unless people believe in it. Then if they do and it is physically possible, it becomes inevitable. Like the internet.
Nuff thinking. I'm going to bed.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[JohnRich 4]

That was an excellent post, lurch. Thanks for taking the time to write it. If only everyone else here did as much thinking as you, before putting their fingers on the keyboard.

[Squeak 17]

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That was an excellent post, lurch. Thanks for taking the time to write it. If only everyone else here did as much thinking as you, before putting their fingers on the keyboard.

Your good self included Mr Rich
















me too

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[NewGuy 0]

No.

[wmw999 2,148]

It doesn't matter if humanity is meant to survive, and in the long run (i.e. eons) it won't be the same anyway. Everything changes; look at the differences between now and 10,000 years ago.

People are what they are -- but what you can do is to be the best person on this earth that you can, while enjoying what you can. Alone you won't "save" humanity regardless, but you can improve your lot, and that of those around you.

In 75 years (if you're posting here you're not likely to be alive then, or much longer if you are) the world probably won't be all that different from what it is now, except that with more and more pervasive internet, we'll hear about it sooner.

The fact that you hear about it doesn't mean it's happening at a greater percentage -- it just means there are more people and more and faster communication.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[FallloutboyDAoC 0]

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Relax, man.
One way or another the species will be here for awhile.
Remember the machines from the Matrix? "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept."
Human species strikes me as likely to get knocked down to medieval again sometime soon, but "soon" means sometime in the next 200 years depending on when the gas runs out.

I think corruption, decadence, poor priorities and waste will mean the system fails and the matrix crashes before we hit the next major transcendant technological singularity necessary to maintain the growth and existence of society as we know it... Fusion, for example. If we get that before society fails far enough not to be able to afford luxuries like fusion research, we might just make it. If we don't, we go down with the oil supply, half the planet turns back into fucking africa, airlines and cheap electronic consumer products become a thing of the past and technology is restricted to the spectacularly wealthy who can still afford the energy.

Humans are like crabs in a bucket. Highest priority isn't pulling selves up, its pulling the others down.
They don't know any better. Give em a few thousand more years to learn better.
Question is, are you determined enough to make something bright out of life that you can keep climbing out of the bucket even with half a dozen other crabs hanging off your back? Think taxes and welfare.
I heard Phil Collins moved to fucking switzerland because in the UK the tax rate on people who achieve an income like his get taxed at over 90%. Can you imagine being him? You make it big, real big, dozens of millions, and the government says tough shit, you make so much we're taking almost ALL of it?

Now imagine what would happen if you gave him back all the money the government took before he moved. How many tens of millions? Instead of giving it away to millions on the dole, he could have started entire fucking industries, created jobs, modern standards of living and productive growth for entire geographic regions. If he were so inclined.

When things fall apart badly enough people get fucking sick of it, break it all down or move away and start over, in a more resource restricted and hostile environment if necessary. Those who can, flee, those who can't starve or die in the wars. Again, look at africa. Half of those societies are so fallen that if everyone woke up became smart and started working together instead of hacking each other to bits with machetes over stupid shit it'd take them 400 years to self-develop to a standard of living and society equivalent to, say, ordinary suburban USA.

Personally I'd like to see a new state form up somewhere hostile but resource-rich for the technically clever. Kinda like that silly "Free State Project" that tried to set itself up in New Hampshire except a lot more serious. Up on the edge of the arctic maybe, center of canada, way up in the vast empty spaces up there just far enough south that theres still trees. Build a city based on forest products, planting as much as you cut, get as many industries up there as you can find an excuse for.
Come up with a gimmick, how bout "goverment should earn its keep". No or low taxes, pay for services you use and nothing else. Just scrap the whole system and start the fuck over, reboot. Build a system based on whats best for survival, not what pleases the largest number of idiots. In a society made exclusively of people free and tough enough to move up there and start over you have a natural vetting process for your society. Civilization is first and foremost an IDEA. Make it "cool" to be polite civilized and caring. Deliberate formality, manners. Where the coolest ambition of the kids isn't to be on fucking american idol or be a "ganksta", its "to be a productive motherfucker" or "To take care of each other, be excellent to one another, and party on dudes!"

Try to come up with a system of government that fixes the stuff thats terminally broken with western civilization, some kind of honor responsibility and merit based politics where the job goes to the guy most fit for the job, not the guy with the most wealthy sponsors.

Our entire civilization is underlain by the basic concept of people doing things TO each other. Forced compliance at every turn.
How about rewriting the rules so people WANT to behave themselves? Take pride in it? Render the entire system of forced compliance unnecessary because people don't fucking act like animals when unsupervised by cops with guns.
Imagine a world where you don't see assholes on "cops" whose priorities in life are "score some meth" "slap my bitch up cause she dissed me" or "rip this guy off/sell him something bullshit or fake". Because nobody in OUR society would be that fucking uncivilized.

How about a common social belief and way of life that considers doing things TO each other unthinkable and values doing things WITH and FOR each other instead?

Cute utopian idea. If we could get about half a million people on board with it and willing to live it it'd be a start. I ain't trying to make that real because it isn't time yet and when it IS time, there'll be people far more qualified and wealthy enough to try it and fuck it up much worse than I could. I'm cynical like that.

In the meantime, crack a beer, try not to worry about the awful big picture and perk yourself up by doing something nice for someone today totally at random. It may feel small and futile but it helps. The Matrix wasn't built all at once...in the 1950's digital data was constructed literally bit-by-bit, one vacuum tube at a time. Now it is a global network of media and internet where more bits are in existence in any given second than there are stars in the next several hundred GALAXIES combined. Hundreds of billions OF hundreds of billions of bits. If positive civilized behavior grew like that we'd have utopian societies (at least by our standards) in every star system as fast as humanity could expand within centuries.
The internet and digital universe grew like that because it was USEFUL. A polite happy thriving society is also useful and I think will evolve inevitably on its own given half a chance and a few more thousand years. Maybe less, if we could propagate the idea like a religion except not as diseased. Its not going to happen unless people believe in it. Then if they do and it is physically possible, it becomes inevitable. Like the internet.
Nuff thinking. I'm going to bed.
-B

Thank you SO much. That was exactly what i was looking for.

[Amazon 7]

WOO HOO


finally made it

[tbrown 26]

Well, if we'd never figured out how to grow our own food, we'd probably go on for millions of years, until the next big meteor hits. Our population would be small and stable, in balance with the world and other animal populations around us.

But since we did figure out agriculture, everything else both good and bad happened. We're way overpopulated by now and don't seem to have the maturity to keep up with our advanced and often destructive technologies. We've come this far in the 10,000 years since we figured out growing our own food. I don't think we have a long extended future, not even for a few thousand more years, maybe not even for centuries.

Dinosaurs lived for hundreds of millions of years until the big meteor did them in. We'll do ourselves in and in fairly short order. In the meantime, let's burn some carbon and go skydive.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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"Everything changes"

OP- While things all around us change, so the things inside us change. Worrying about the end of all things is not going to stop it, and you know this already. I want to hit on the news media, as many have. I think they are the worlds largest army, with correspondants all over the world and weapons of propoganda so great they can instigate wars. Also, I think they are born of us, the people... we are the ones who keep them alive and operating. As a mass, we find it almost impossible NOT to know whats going on around us. It is becoming more and more increasingly difficult to just be.

While you dont want this to turn to a spiritual thing, you need to at least see that your type of thinking is exactly what leads people to search for the deeper "meaning" of life... and that is a spiritual journey whether you want it to be or not. You may have no idea what your getting into, but that doesnt mean your not getting into it.

We have to learn content, its not something that just comes naturally to us humans. Take a look around, we are flooded in blessings and there is so much to be thankful for, yet our minds continuously engage us and tell us that we dont have enough, or that we need more and more ect... Just be careful, your entering a very powerful train of thought and pride IS your worst enemy.

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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I understand as I feel the same way, however I did find a cure. I simply don't watch or read anything negative anymore. Its hard to get used to but you will find your stress and anxiety lever will diminish greatly if you just don't read that shit.

It takes a bit getting used to, but we can't carry the woes of the world on our shoulder.

Thanks for the suggestion, but i really don't like the idea of ignorance is bliss.

I dont think Ignorance is the same as choosing not to worry about something.

"We didn't start the fire"

[lurch 0]

Well, if we'd never figured out agriculture we'd also still be living hand to mouth with an average lifespan of about 35 years at best because we'd be dying of simple infections and small broken bones and various "trivial" medical issues. Dying in childbirth by complications even a barely trained midwife would easily handle.

I gotta disagree with Brown, here.
I think it'd be damn near impossible to wipe us out. Even with another dino-killer meteor. The dinos were big, dumb, and unable to adapt to environments they didn't evolve for. Theres only one animal that can survive in any environment it can go to...us.
Yes it is in our nature to destroy ourselves but as good as we are at it, we're even better at breeding like rabbits. Nature doesn't care if theres a 75% infant mortality rate. Those that survive just get stronger, smarter, better. To keep humanity from dying out all you need to do is manage to survive to breeding age and successfully raise at least 1.1 kids of your own that in turn live long enough to breed. Even if you only lived to 30 but had 11 kids of whom only three survived long enough to become parents, you're actually WINNING from a species-survival point of view. And prehumanlike critters were managing to do THAT in hostile wild environments long before we even had minds and reason.
Even if we got hit by multiple dino killers or nuked ourselves we won't die out. Even if you reduced civilization to wreckage overnight. There'd be a mass dieback and we might lose 5.5 out of 6 billion, but the technological debris alone would be enough to rebuild a much smaller secondhand technical civilization out of within a few years. Nobody'd have to reinvent the generator...there'd be millions of em scattered about the ruins. Same goes for internal combustion technology and all lesser "wires and motors" technology that can be made from scratch with 1700's level tools and knowledge. And knowing that it CAN be done because we USED to have it means even in a post-oil or post-meteor age of wreckage and depleted population, rebuilding back up to microchips and aircraft would happen MUCH faster the second time around because we know it can be done and we used to know how to do it and the debris would be everywhere in quantities enough to last a reduced population for centuries.
Gimme an entire junkyard and I could build you a car without needing a factory to do it. Given the wreckage of our entire industrial civilization another, much smaller one could be built to equivalent complexity without having to go through most of the original discovery stages in between. No need to rediscover electricity, metallurgy, machine construction... just take whats left apart and read the fucking manual.
People want a better life for their kids. As soon as the dust cleared, we'd immediately start rebuilding and start all over again and maybe get it right this time.
I think only way to kill us would be if something happened bad enough to effectively sterilize the planet and wipe out anything more advanced than fungi, or we're insane enough to create some kind of 100% fatal artificial disease. And even then, there'd be a colony quarantining itself in antarctica or something. Life likes being alive and people are good at it.

God, I need a skydive. Its 15 degrees out. Agh.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[livendive 8]

What kind of time-frame are you asking about?

I'm not sure we're "meant" to survive, but suspect we will, at least in the short term. But long term? Of course not (short and long being intentionally ambiguous)

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[jtval 0]

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Just because the news never shows any kindness or goodwill doesn't mean we aren't heading for something bad.

Global population is a pretty big thing i think about, whether or not we're at a sustainable level.

Give it two years. there will be one of two things that happens.

12 dec 2012-
the world will end solving the population problem

OR

Many lunatics think the world will end and they will off themselves....solving the population problem.


I think the 2nd scenario will happen.


Anyway, STOP putting your trust and faith in the news.
If you have ever been involved with a story that made it to the news you will know that there is little fact in the report. Mostly uneducated guesses and speculation.


Go to your friends house. Go to your DZ. Go to your local store.
THAT is what REAL life is like. Are there moments of anger etc, yup but in any normal persons life they will find some way to get along with society even if they dont fully agree with it.

My photos

My Videos

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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A polite happy thriving society is also useful and I think will evolve inevitably on its own given half a chance and a few more thousand years. Maybe less, if we could propagate the idea like a religion except not as diseased. Its not going to happen unless people believe in it. Then if they do and it is physically possible, it becomes inevitable.

I gather that your basically saying the "inevitable change" may come through a revolutionary transformation of human thought and perception, as we relate to one another. I could be wrong, but I agree either way. As you know, Jesus does this for many, and you are right, there are diseased interpretations of any religion or philosophy... but that doesnt mean there isnt a "cure" already revealed on this earth.

To me, the real question is not about humans, but about life in general. Will life survive in the universe? One thing we know about life, through our very limited human perception, is that life itself is much more fragile than our will to live. So, is it life, or the will in life that carries the strength to not only survive, but to flourish?

Im at work. somewhat bored. and am strangely attracted to this website more than I foresaw when I joined it. I like the provoked thought, and there is plenty of that in SC.

"We didn't start the fire"

[Bolas 5]

Not the way we are currently going and I've seen no indication of any sort of direction change.

One of the many reasons I'm not having kids.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[freethefly 6]

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I don't think what's nagging me is that i think the world's gonna end, i think what's nagging me is i have no idea if it's gonna end or go on. I would feel more at ease with the truth, no matter what it is.

No need to fear! We have a full 7.8 billion years of worry free fun time until our own fiery ball in the sky goes schizo on us and becomes a Red Giant. At that point, people will be popping like corn! Unless, of course, someone among us decides to nuke us in the meantime.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

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One of the many reasons I'm not having kids.

Something we're ALL fervently grateful for....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[pirana 0]

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What i'm looking for is any evidence whatsoever (for and against) which might determine the fate of humanity. I don't think what's nagging me is that i think the world's gonna end, i think what's nagging me is i have no idea if it's gonna end or go on.

"meant to survive" implies some sort of plan put in place prior to existence or at time of deployment. If you buy into a Creator, then maybe that is a believable implication. However, being as there is no evidence of such a plan it is probably more accurate to say we will survive, or not - without it really meaning anything.

Think of it this way; if we kill ourselves off, the world goes on (might even be a better place for the creatures we don't take down with us). If we survive for the entire duration of the time the Earth remains habitable, then we just get offed as the Sun expands to it's red giant phase. Even if we somehow manage to mobilize and migrate to another star by then; we'll almost certainly get wiped out when the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies collide. Actual collisions between stars will be rare, but the relatively steady state needed for solar systems to harbor and hang on to planets is gonna get thoroughly tweaked. And even if we survive that and manage to colonize multiple galaxies; what appears to be the inevitable heat death of the Universe is gonna take us down in something like 10 to the 230 years.

It's so depressing - and yet comforting.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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However, being as there is no evidence of such a plan it is probably more accurate to say we will survive, or not - without it really meaning anything.

If your gonna go for objective accuracy, you should at least say "It is probably more accurate to say we will survive, or not- with or without it meaning anything."

Your giving more testimony showing that people who dont believe in God also do not believe there is meaning to life. A conversation that we have been having quite a bit of on these forums. Now, billvon will come on here and say that is not true... that there are Atheistic minds who do believe there is a meaning to/for life, but that is hardly ever the case when I speak with an actual atheist.

"We didn't start the fire"