kelpdiver 2 #251 July 28, 2009 Quote Well, he'd have to be impeached, as that's the only method we have of removing presidents from office. And for that you'd need, at an absolute minimum, proof he intentionally forged his birth certificate. More critically, you'd need to get the Senators to vote to convict. Given their actions with the last two presidents, that seems like an impossible task. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #252 July 28, 2009 maybe not........ but even if he confessed to that, ( on national TV, no less ) NO ONE is going to step forward and enforce the constitution. Of that I am quite certain. They would be called all kinds of mean, rotten names.. hence they would not do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #253 July 28, 2009 Quote I meant that in some countries you are not allowed to be a citizen of more than one country. I don't know the reason why countries have such laws. So you're talking about the case when the country requires a person who obtained citizenship of another country to renounce his former citizenship. This is actually pretty typical in Europe, and even in ex-USSR, however the question is the enforcement. For example, I'm citizen of Ukraine, which has the citizenship laws saying that basically once you get another citizenship, you're losing Ukrainian citizenship. However when you look on enforcement, things looks different. Here's my dialog with the Consulate a year ago when I renewed my passport: Me: So if I get U.S. citizenship, I'll lose Ukrainian citizenship, correct? Consul: Yes, this is what the law says - you lose the citizenship. Me: But how exactly it works? I mean, the USCIS or Department of State does not notify you about immigration status changes, nor they require me to do so. Even Ukrainian law does not require me to do so. Also the law says any changes in citizenship must be signed by President, right? Consul: Well, the way it works that if you want to renounce your Ukrainian citizenship, you need to personally appear in the Embassy (i.e. fly to Washington, D.C.), fill a few forms, and pay a $500 fee. They will send the papers to the Presidential Citizenship Commission, which assembles twice a year. In a few years they will approve it, and once the President personally signs the paper, you're set free. Me: So what if I do not want to show up in D.C., fill forms, pay $500 and so on - what's then? Consul: Then nobody gonna give shit about it. Me: But there is the law which says I "lose" it automatically, how about that? Consul: C'mon man, you lived here for too long, is it the first stupid law you've seen nobody gives shit about? Me: O_o_o So here's where they found the loophole: since Ukraine does not recognize multiple citizenships, it ignores all your other citizenships if you have the Ukrainian one, and assumes you only have one citizenship. And since all other citizenships are ignored, you will never be considered having another citizenship, and therefore won't lose it. This legal stuff is really funny!* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #254 July 28, 2009 Quote Consul: C'mon man, you lived here for too long, is it the first stupid law you've seen nobody gives shit about? Is that a near or exact quote? Gotta love those foreign service types. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #255 July 28, 2009 Quote Is that a near or exact quote? Gotta love those foreign service types. No, he probably used a more polite word, like "crap".* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #256 July 28, 2009 QuoteWell, he'd have to be impeached, as that's the only method we have of removing presidents from office. And for that you'd need, at an absolute minimum... Actually, all you'd need is sufficient votes in Congress. That's the way the system works, right? Get enough lobbying dollars together, and who cares about those bothersome facts. Majority rules! Who needs protection for the rights of the minority, anyway?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrendaHupp 0 #257 July 28, 2009 I wonder if you would even have to impeach him. If the SC ruled that he was not a natural born citizen then it would invalidate his eligibility to be president. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #258 July 28, 2009 Quote Quote Actually I will seek clarification in that issue. Ask Burkina Faso, maybe they'll know Didn't he used to be Arsenio Hall's sidekick?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #259 July 28, 2009 QuoteQuoteYou are John Kallend the most important person you know. You mean like "the most interesting man in the world" in the Dos Equis commercials? Love those commercials, some of the best in a long time. New one (to me anyway) on the Best Defense. "The right look ought to suffice." Or something like that. The one about "Lives vicariously thru himself" is right up there with Marvin parking cars. "Marvin, what have you been doing in the car park for 10,000 years?" "Parking cars, what else do you do in a car park? Brain the size of a small planet and here I am parking cars, . . . it's so depressing."" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #260 July 28, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Actually I will seek clarification in that issue. Ask Burkina Faso, maybe they'll know Didn't he used to be Arsenio Hall's sidekick? thats funny! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #261 July 28, 2009 QuoteI wonder if you would even have to impeach him. If the SC ruled that he was not a natural born citizen then it would invalidate his eligibility to be president. Not that I see you are posting it as your position; but just wondering if there are still people questioning his citizenship? Are people aware of the documentation that goes all the way back to his actual date of birth? Hanging on to a claim that he is not a citizen puts a person in the Planet X, Moon hoax, CT crowd. p.s. - Anybody else see the Jon Stewart piece on this. As usual, very funny, and right to the point." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #262 July 28, 2009 Quote p.s. - Anybody else see the Jon Stewart piece on this. As usual, very funny, and right to the point. Good Stuff!! I hope Lou Dobbs saw it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #263 July 28, 2009 It's time to stop with this nonsense. The debate on this issue is over. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate;_ylt=AloxgRLoHfPPYgS_mcUW0dCCfNdF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #264 July 28, 2009 Quote Quote p.s. - Anybody else see the Jon Stewart piece on this. As usual, very funny, and right to the point. Good Stuff!! I hope Lou Dobbs saw it I hope Lou Dobbs sticks it up his ass. Even Dobbs's fellow journalists are starting to mock him as a foil-hatter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #265 July 28, 2009 Quote>probably goes to the school of thought that a man cant serve two masters loyally. I guess some of us don't see the government as our "master." No - Just Mommy and Daddy providing everything for you.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #266 July 28, 2009 >No - Just Mommy and Daddy providing everything for you. Again, I guess I have a different view of the government than you do. We are their masters; we are their parents - not the other way around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdiver 0 #267 July 28, 2009 Quote>probably goes to the school of thought that a man cant serve two masters loyally. I guess some of us don't see the government as our "master." in U.S.A your right its not ( we do allow dual citizenship) other countries the term fits and that was what i was referring to. P.S dont tell Obama that we dont think our government's not our master, after all he is trying to further the cradle to the grave society he wants, look at all those czar's he created. now if he could just do away with that pesky constitution he hates so much.light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #268 July 28, 2009 >It's time to stop with this nonsense. Oh come on! It's fun. With Sarah Palin out of the picture, there's not nearly as much right wing entertainment out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #269 July 28, 2009 Quote>No - Just Mommy and Daddy providing everything for you. Again, I guess I have a different view of the government than you do. We are their masters; we are their parents - not the other way around. Are we talking about the way things are, or the way they ought to be?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #270 July 28, 2009 >Are we talking about the way things are, or the way they ought to be? The way things should be, and the way things mostly are. We bitch and moan about all the freedoms government is taking away, but by and large we are still one of the least-regulated people in the world. (Doesn't mean that growth of government isn't a problem of course.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #271 July 28, 2009 Quote>Are we talking about the way things are, or the way they ought to be? The way things should be, and the way things mostly are. We bitch and moan about all the freedoms government is taking away, but by and large we are still one of the least-regulated people in the world. (Doesn't mean that growth of government isn't a problem of course.) In the "way things are" world, you must ask permission before you can: Marry Start a business Drive a car See a doctor (just kidding--but maybe we're headed that way) Well, the list would be quite long if I started just throwing all the things down you need permission to do. Is not the entity you must ask permission from your "master" in the practical sense? And the more things you need permission to do, the more complete the mastery exercised over you.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #272 July 28, 2009 >Marry Hmm. Common law marriages still exist; no permission needed for them. >Start a business Around here you don't. You need a business license if you want to do certain things (and they are given with no questions asked) but if you want to run a business yourself out of your garage there's nothing stopping you. >Drive a car In most places you can drive whatever you like on your own roads - but if you want to use public roads you need a driver's license and a registerable car. I agree that we are not 100% free, and that we have to guard against erosions in those freedoms. But again, we are better off than most. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #273 July 28, 2009 Quote>No - Just Mommy and Daddy providing everything for you. Again, I guess I have a different view of the government than you do. We are their masters; we are their parents - not the other way around. So we are able at this point to tell them what we want? Or are we told to accept what the senate and house think is best? Tell me how much power you, individually, have if you disagree with paying for something you don't think is right. The "view of government" I have is different than what I expressed above, in fact I think it shouldn't be - however - the standard view of government that a democrat has reflects what I parodied.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #274 July 28, 2009 >So we are able at this point to tell them what we want? Yep. And we get to do it again every November. >Tell me how much power you, individually, have if you disagree >with paying for something you don't think is right. Little. If there's a war that I don't want fought, I can do very little to stop it. However, if everyone feels the same way, we can replace the politicians who started the war and make it clear that we'll replace the new ones too if they don't end it. Which, of course, is how democracy works in a republic. >The "view of government" I have is different than what I expressed above . . . OK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,632 #275 July 29, 2009 How long are you going to keep us waiting for that clarification you were going to seek?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
