Need Shotgun Advice

[warpedskydiver 0]

Thanks for serving!

I disagree about #6 shot but to each their own.

Please do not use #6 in combat

Know why they don't have any in Iraq?

We are not hunting tweety birds.

[Misternatural 0]

Here's a vid on gun safety....just a standard gun thread PSAhttp://usashootingngb.com/video.php

Remember the guns choke determines the shot spread vs distance. That is why my 10 ga. has specific chokes for each size shot and situation. This is especially important for waterfowl and turkey

Which is why I like sawed off for defense... widest spread in the shortest distance.... otherwise may as well be using a pistol.

My defense gun of choice is a Winchester 120 pump 12 ga with a sawed off barrel to 20 inches,it takes a three inch shell ...In 24 years of use it has NEVER jammed on me All my shotguns are pumps or break open, as I want to decide if a shell gets chambered or not for a followup shot,also I have seen enough semi autos jam up in the field to know that I don't want to count on one in a clutch. But that's a personal choice. Additionally having the pump is a safety thing with me since I know that an unlocked gun is a potentially serious hazard in any house, no matter how well you think it is hidden- kids can find it, so I maximize survivability by following the steps I outlined earlier.


The goal is to protect family or self...any unlocked or loaded gun at home will instantly negate that objective in an accident.


I cant stress enough to practice with the piece, I like to spend time holding the shotgun down with the safety on...and in one motion shoulder it jack a shell and point then hit the safety and fire. If you do this enough it becomes routine. Of course when hunting the gun is already cocked with the safety on, those birds are FAST- and in 3 seconds you have to decide on the target the direction and the safety of the shot and take it. Go partridge hunting with no dog and you will see what I mean.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

Lots of good advice here.

Best one is to let her pick the gun.
2nd best is to take her out on a regular basis to shoot. Currency is important. Familiarity is too. Make it fun and she will want to go back.

My ex was smallish (5'4" 110#) and was very comfortable with a 20ga. It was an 870 pump.

I wouldn't listen a whole lot to the gun store clerk's training advice. You really don't know what you are getting. Some can be valid, but a lot of it is shit. (like the "sound of a pump shotgun")
The NRA offers a whole lot of training options. Many are women only classes. NRA for Women.

FWIW, in Wisconsin (and probably elsewhere) pointing a gun at someone is Assault with a Deadly Weapon.
Firing that gun (even a warning shot) is "use of deadly force", and can be considered Attempted Murder. Yes, the self-defense exceptions apply.

Shooting to "disable" or to "wound" is a bad idea. As others have said, you shoot to stop the attacker.

The better classes (NRA are good) will cover this stuff.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Misternatural 0]

>like the "sound of a pump shotgun"


Actually there's something familiar about that action that just seems right..... If only I could remember what that is-

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sorry.... you know eventually we HAD to go there

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[Ron 7]

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Max it has been disproved that the sound of a shotgun being racked will scare anyone off.

Please provide the evidence you mention.

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It just tells them where you are standing, and that you are not ready.

It tells them where you are standing... But it also says you ARE ready. And any unarmed fool is not about to be so stupid as to rush towards the sound of a racking chamber.

But please, provide the PROOF of your claim. I'd like to see it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[TomAiello 25]

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Max it has been disproved that the sound of a shotgun being racked will scare anyone off.

Please provide the evidence you mention.

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It just tells them where you are standing, and that you are not ready.

It tells them where you are standing... But it also says you ARE ready.

Personally, my home defense plan includes moving to a good position between my family and any intruders (yes, I've picked out a couple of them in our house), and then loudly announcing that (a) I'm armed, (b) I've called the police, and (c) that I will fire on any intruder who approaches me/my family.

I'm sure that they'll now where I am. I'm also pretty convinced that unless they're professionals coming to kill me, they're unlikely to advance further.

edit to add: FWIW, my primary home defense weapon is a Benelli M4. I'm happy with it's reliability (and rate of fire) regardless of it's failure to have a loud racking noise.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Ron 7]

I know you said "Auto"... But there are many reasons not to get an Auto.

I went out doing a sporting clays competition the other day... I had the trusty Silver Pigeon II and my buddy had a Beretta 391. I saw a bunch of autos jam to include my buddies. He missed a lot of follow up shots with jams. Unless you are going to train, a pump is easier if it mals. If the Auto does not fire you have to find and rack the action... With a pump, your hand is on it already.

So, IMO for SD, the pump wins unless you are going to train a bunch.

Now, I have two SD shotguns... A Rem 870 Synthetic in 20GA

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic_7-round.asp

And a Mossberg persuader 500 in 12GA.

This might be perfect for you:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_jr.asp

Again, you didn't want a pump... But a Pump is not a bad choice.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[LouDiamond 1]

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my primary home defense weapon is a Benelli M4. I'm happy with it's reliability (and rate of fire) regardless of it's failure to have a loud racking noise.

I got me one of them thar EYE-talian jobs too.

Have you added a mag extension to it yet? Mine came in the desert camo pattern so I promptly Duracoated it a more appropriate color and added a Vang Comp breaching device.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[rhaig 0]

http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm
penetration testing with a 20-ga

http://theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm
a variety of penetration tests. several involve shotguns and various loads.

Be careful. you can waste a whole afternoon there.

--
Rob

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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Remington 870. Great shotgut! Never fails, fairly cheap and it has that great classic shotgun sound when you pump it so if someone is in the house there isn't a doubt in there mind of what you got.

I have the 870 Marine Mag with stainless coating...It works for me!

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Max it has been disproved that the sound of a shotgun being racked will scare anyone off.

Please provide the evidence you mention.

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It just tells them where you are standing, and that you are not ready.

It tells them where you are standing... But it also says you ARE ready. And any unarmed fool is not about to be so stupid as to rush towards the sound of a racking chamber.

But please, provide the PROOF of your claim. I'd like to see it.

Do yourself a favor and read up on it, the only thing that scares any intruder is when they think someone may be home.

If they do not care that someone is home they do not care if you are armed because they are too.

So no, I do not FEEL like looking it back up again in multitudes of websites that all examined this fallacy.

I am not the one who asserted that a shotgun being racked scares anyone except maybe a kid who did not know someone was home.

The truth is that nobody can predict the reaction to any noise that an intruder hears.

Intruder/invaders have been known to attempt a robbery at a home where they KNEW the home owner was armed and very dangerous.(sub-machine guns and a gun dealer.)


So if you continue to claim that decades of evidence disproving your Hollywood movie based theory, you better have the evidence.

I guess what is common knowledge to Feds, Cops, Soldiers and the likes is not good enough.

Bad guys do not give a shit about a warning.

That just gives them an upper hand in the fight, because they give no warning at all.

[steve1 5]

I've always been a pump shotgun fan. I hunt birds in cold weather and auto's often fail in that environment. An auto may work fine for home defense though. S

Since I always shoot a pump, I have a short barrelled 870 for home defense.

Remington makes an express model 870 pump that is really reasonably priced. I bought my wife and kids a youth model express (twenty guage) for around $200. They may be closer to $300. now. The only thing cheap about this shotgun is it's stock and possibly it's blueing. They shoot great!

Heavier shot makes sense to me. Bird shot out of a little 20 guage may not get the job done.

When I was a kid I tried to shoot a deer in the head and neck with number four bird shot, in 16 guage. The range was four or five yards away. I cut loose and the deer ran off. I never found it. The bird shot didn't even nocked it down. If I had 00 buck that deer would have been dead.

Bird shot fired down a longer hallway or across a bigger room may not penetrate deep enough into a bad guy to reach the vitals. Particularly when fired from a twenty guage. I suppose some 00 buck bb's could penetrate a wall or two, but then again I want a weapon that is lethal enough to stop a perpetrator, not just make him mad.

So, that's my two cents worth.

[Nightingale 0]

I have a Winchester Defender 20 gauge. It's small, light, and easy to handle. It is a pump, though.

[Ron 7]

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Do yourself a favor and read up on it, the only thing that scares any intruder is when they think someone may be home.

If they do not care that someone is home they do not care if you are armed because they are too.

So no, I do not FEEL like looking it back up again in multitudes of websites that all examined this fallacy.

Got it... you don't have any proof, just opinion.

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I guess what is common knowledge to Feds, Cops, Soldiers and the likes is not good enough.

More BS... I was a soldier, know tons of cops, have relatives that were Feds.

Back up your claims, or get off your high horse.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Dutton 0]

In regards to "the sound of a shotgun racking scaring someone off"...

An instructor of mine told me, "Sure it sounds scary and reassuring. Until from out in the darkness all you hear are the clicks of two safeties snapping off..."


Don't know if he came up with it, but it sure made me laugh..

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Do yourself a favor and read up on it, the only thing that scares any intruder is when they think someone may be home.

If they do not care that someone is home they do not care if you are armed because they are too.

So no, I do not FEEL like looking it back up again in multitudes of websites that all examined this fallacy.

Got it... you don't have any proof, just opinion.

Quote

I guess what is common knowledge to Feds, Cops, Soldiers and the likes is not good enough.

More BS... I was a soldier, know tons of cops, have relatives that were Feds.

Back up your claims, or get off your high horse.

Prove your fallacy, let's see the statistics...

I will let you off with doing some shoddy searches on the net, you will find more evidence that it does not work to scare a perp.

Quit believing movies.

[warpedskydiver 0]

BTW did the military teach you to walk around racking the shotgun in order to scare bad guys?



NO they did not.

[Ron 7]

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Prove your fallacy, let's see the statistics...

YOU are claiming something, not me... YOU are getting preachy, not me.

Prove YOUR statements, or treat them like opinion, not fact.

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Quit believing movies.

Quit making up facts.

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BTW did the military teach you to walk around racking the shotgun in order to scare bad guys?

No, but the sound of a round cambering always did get MY attention... I am sure it works for others.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[TomAiello 25]

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Have you added a mag extension to it yet?

First thing I did. Mine is a one piece replacement tube. I actually put a telescoping stock, mag extension and oversize safety on it immediately after getting it.

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Mine came in the desert camo pattern so I promptly Duracoated it a more appropriate color

Mine's the stock black color. It'll probably stay that way.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[thrillstalker 0]

my opinion is to forget the 20 and go with a 12 gauge. the likelihood of her ever having to shoot it is minimal and if she does have to shoot it im sure she will be glad for a little more knockdown power.
they make shotguns with shorter barrels and shorter stock. they are called youth models. this might be perfect for a smaller women.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[AggieDave 6]

In reference to your original parameters, I would look at a Super90. Although its not a 20-gauge, the recoil still isn't too bad (with the weight of the gun). You can even put hydraulic recoil buffers on the gun and still achieve a level of reliability. The super90 has a pistol grip with a stock, has a lot of accessories you can bolt on easily (including rails, sights, battle grips, etc).

If willing to go with a pump, then a 870 is always a good choice. A Mossberg 500 is also a good choice.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[nanook 1]

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BTW did the military teach you to walk around racking the shotgun in order to scare bad guys?



NO they did not.

+1

I can definitely tell you that it is taught in the Navy that the "racking the shotgun" myth is pure Hollywood. I've been taught by retired Sheriff's Department, city police, and SWAT members (provided by the Navy Training) and they all say the same. From a personal experience, I can tell you that my screen door sounds exactly like a racking shotgun. Plus people "rack" differently. The slow types, you hear two distinctive "chink, chink" sound. Others you hear a quick "sshink" that sounds a lot different.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Misternatural 0]

In addition to the racking sound I will add. "Freeze- I got birdshot in this mother....you won't die but you'll be one UGLY fucker the rest of your life."

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[SkydiveJack 1]

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In reference to your original parameters, I would look at a Super90. Although its not a 20-gauge, the recoil still isn't too bad (with the weight of the gun). You can even put hydraulic recoil buffers on the gun and still achieve a level of reliability. The super90 has a pistol grip with a stock, has a lot of accessories you can bolt on easily (including rails, sights, battle grips, etc).

If willing to go with a pump, then a 870 is always a good choice. A Mossberg 500 is also a good choice.

Who makes the super90? Got a web site? Thanks!!

The wife is pretty much locked into a semi-auto 20 ga. But I really do appreciate all the insight everyone has provided into the considerations of a pump. I have gotten quite an education in this thread.

[warpedskydiver 0]

M1Super90 manufactured by Benelli