Need Shotgun Advice

[SkydiveJack 1]

Ok all you experts out there. I would appreciate some advice.

My wife has decided that she wants a shotgun for home defense. She is small, 5’ nothing. She wants a 20 gauge, not a 12 gauge, due to her size and recoil considerations. She also wants it to be a semi-automatic, not a pump. I have been to a few gun stores and looked around on-line. I’m not coming up with anything except for hunting guns. Something with a stock might be an acceptable consideration so she can tuck the stock under her arm. A tactical model with pistol grip and forward grip is desired. The shorter the barrel and overall length the better. Laser sight compatibility desired but not required. Point shooting, not aimed shooting, is the preferred method. I’m talking home defense only.

So, please tell me if you know of any models that MUST meet the following-

20 gauge.
Semi-automatic. No pump actions.
Shortest overall length. It’s ok if it must be registered as a pistol here in Michigan.
Maximum shell capacity- tube or magazine, no drums. Hopefully 5+1 or better.
Off the shelf with only laser and/or tube extension kits.
Cost not a factor.

Please, don’t get into the advantages of a hand gun over a shotgun. I’ve bee through this already. She wants a 20 gauge semi-automatic. You married guys know what I mean!! And I know about reduced loads for 12 gauges for reduced recoil. It’s not a consideration for her, although I wouldn’t mind hearing your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks for your time and suggestions!!!

[rehmwa 2]

Shotgun -

Well, she's seems to be a small, and highly intelligent woman who skydives and has a very open view of how the world should be handled.

I recommend you be honest to her and open in your opinions and respectful and you'll get the same back.

along with some pretty good humor in there as well

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rickjump1 0]

Secondhand Remington model 1100 with aftermarket stock and pistol grip.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Secondhand Remington model 1100 with aftermarket stock and pistol grip.

That or a used 20ga. Saiga.

[warpedskydiver 0]

BTW a 5' tall woman can handle a 12ga.

Bonnie Parker was like a freakin MARINE.


Recoil is the problem so instead of 00 buck try using #4 buck or using a Limbsaver Recoil Pad.

It will make a huge difference.

A Porting Job or Brake helps quite a bit as well.

20ga with 00 buck still has plenty of recoil.

The mass that exits the bbl is the problem.

Try #4 buck or larger, use 2 3/4" shells not 3"

The longer the shell the more pellets, not more powder.


Newtons third law rears it's ugly head.

So what is required is either to reduce the mass exiting, reduce FELT recoil, and divert the gases radially from the end of the bbl at least 2" before the muzzle crown.

She will want a gas operated gun instead of an inertia operated like a Benelli.

Training will help immensely.

[PhreeZone 15]

I've been looking into this a bit since it was brought up in these forums and it seems Saiga makes a really nice gun that you can customize out for a fair price to be basically what you want for a very nice price. The Saiga 20 is built off the AK frame design and is tough as nails.

One nice thing is that the Saiga 20 can hold 8 and 10 round magazines right out of the box - Plenty to beat off a swarm of bad guys for home protection

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[TomAiello 25]

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Secondhand Remington model 1100 with aftermarket stock and pistol grip.

That or a used 20ga. Saiga.

Second the Saiga 20. They're reliable, rugged and take magazines for higher capacity and faster reloads. Plus, they're fairly cheap.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Gawain 0]

I know she wants a semi-auto, but discuss with her the profound psychological impact of the sound of a shot-gun cocking before opening fire. Grips can be placed on the forearm if desired. Just a thought.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[warpedskydiver 0]

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I know she wants a semi-auto, but discuss with her the profound psychological impact of the sound of a shot-gun cocking before opening fire. Grips can be placed on the forearm if desired. Just a thought.

Max it has been disproved that the sound of a shotgun being racked will scare anyone off.


It just tells them where you are standing, and that you are not ready.

[Gawain 0]

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I know she wants a semi-auto, but discuss with her the profound psychological impact of the sound of a shot-gun cocking before opening fire. Grips can be placed on the forearm if desired. Just a thought.

Max it has been disproved that the sound of a shotgun being racked will scare anyone off.

It just tells them where you are standing, and that you are not ready.

I was unaware of it being disproved...oh well, as I said just a thought....

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[warpedskydiver 0]

I hope you have a large well trained dog, one that will definitely attack and dismember someone.

Many people assume their dog will engage.

Some people find out before they need to know.


Look into Shutzhund sport.

Or train them yourself using the "Koehler Method of Guard Dog Training."

At worst case the dog will buy you valuable time, to ready yourself for the fight of your life.


Shutzhund dogs actually wind up in rescue shelters so look into a GSD shelter.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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I know she wants a semi-auto, but discuss with her the profound psychological impact of the sound of a shot-gun cocking before opening fire. Grips can be placed on the forearm if desired. Just a thought.

Max it has been disproved that the sound of a shotgun being racked will scare anyone off.

It just tells them where you are standing, and that you are not ready.

I was unaware of it being disproved...oh well, as I said just a thought....

No problem, if someone is stupid enough to break in while the occupant is home, they have already failed to reason that they might be killed.

[Misternatural 0]

Turkey and waterfoul hunter here

Reliability is a big deal in both circumstances .....I like the Browning models which are built like a cannon.... I have the 10 gauge BPS- they are a little heavy though. Binelli nova is a good choice, Beretta makes some nice ones, Keep in mind that even with gas operated action a lighter synthetic stock gun is easyer to swing but has less mass for recoil inertia absrption and will kick harder.You can get a variety of barrels for most of them. "sawn off barrels are OK for defense but DON"T go less than 19 inches 18 is legal but if the cops ever measure it with a barrel stick give yourself some margin cuz THATS mandatory federal jail time!

Good shells to use are combo shells with different size projectiles in them. I load my defense gun with #6 bird first(painful) for a warning shot then back it up with a magnum turkey load (very painful)... then buck(done deal)-this gives the perp a chance to reconsider so you don't get charged with murder... just in case.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[TomAiello 25]

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Good shells to use are combo shells with different size projectiles in them. I load my defense gun with #6 bird first(painful) for a warning shot then back it up with a magnum turkey load (very painful)... then buck(done deal)-this gives the perp a chance to reconsider so you don't get charged with murder... just in case.

Does anyone know of any case law related to self-defense shootings and various shotgun rounds?

Personally, I decided that if I'm willing to point the gun at a human and pull the trigger, I want to kill them. My "warning" load is #4 hardened buck or 00 buck, and I generally don't load anything else.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[warpedskydiver 0]

It does not matter what you shoot them with, unless it is justified you are done.

You must shoot to stop.

If that means they are almost severed at the trunk, oh well.

One blast with 00 buck is like a nine to 12 round burst from a 32acp sub gun.

[SkydiveJack 1]

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Secondhand Remington model 1100 with aftermarket stock and pistol grip.

That or a used 20ga. Saiga.

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. Keep it coming. I have few questions. Why have a couple of you suggested a used gun? Is it about cost?

I just did a quick search of Remington 1100 after market grips. All the pistol grips were for 12 ga. only. Any good sites you can recommend for 20 ga. aftermarket parts for Remington and Saiga 20ga?

Thanks again!!!!!

[Rstanley0312 0]

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Secondhand Remington model 1100 with aftermarket stock and pistol grip.

That or a used 20ga. Saiga.

Second the Saiga 20. They're reliable, rugged and take magazines for higher capacity and faster reloads. Plus, they're fairly cheap.

+1 it is a great choice!

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Misternatural 0]

To each his own my friend
Personally I feel #6 is a good deterrent and it is fairly debilitating at close range...look at what happened to Cheneys buddy....he went right down and that guy was prolly using 7 or 8's, and we have funny laws here. I would rather not do jail time for a possible misunderstanding...something to at least consider when you are a civilian.

Plus as a bird hunter I am pretty agile with that gun...people are SLOW easy targets compared to wild animals.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[Dutton 0]

Check out Rifle Dynamics. Jim did my AK and did a wonderful job. You could get a great Saiga build from him, or look into Dinzag Arms in Michigan and get the parts to do it yourself.

[DJL 232]

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discuss with her the profound psychological impact of the sound of a shot-gun cocking before opening fire. Grips can be placed on the forearm if desired. Just a thought.

My home security consists of a speaker system and a Red Button. When the red button is hit then THIS comes blaring out of the sound system. Note, this isn't legal in most states.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[TomAiello 25]

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Why have a couple of you suggested a used gun? Is it about cost?

Yes. But the truth is that a new Saiga 20 is only about $425 or so. It all depends on your budget. If you've got a larger budget and want it all tacticooled up, have a look at Red Stick Firearms. I think there are only Saiga 12's on the web site, but I've seen a couple Red Stick Saiga 20's that were pretty much the same as the 12's.

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Any good sites you can recommend for 20 ga. aftermarket parts for Remington and Saiga 20ga?

Mississippi Auto Arms

If you're looking for accessory advice and/or leads for good deals, read through the Saiga 12 forums, too. Here is their Saiga 20 forum.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Misternatural 0]

Also I think it is necessary to say here that I think If the gun is NOT kept in a safe or locked that a shell NOT be stored in the chamber, at least a person has to know how to jack a shell in first, also why i load it first with bird shot..... unintended handlers may try to fire the gun. The WORST thing is a gun accident in the home and buckshot is usually instantly lethal.. home protection is one thing so granted it is a tradeoff to incorporate more safety protocol to a defense firearm but the consequences either way are permanent so hopefully people keep the safety on till ready to fire, and practice a lot at the range to get use to the action, aim, and recoil of the piece. also make sure the shells or combination you choose have the proper power to cycle through without jamming.

Have a fun safe weekend

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[warpedskydiver 0]

I suggested a used gun because

1. It is a proven runner.

2. You are going to modify it anyways

3. Cost effective

4. No wait just pay and walk out.

get extra mags for the Saiga, as many as you can get your hands on.

Buy no less than a case of ammo at a time.

Practice with what you are really going to use.

Pattern it at the distances reflecting what the actual scenario is.

Practice loading and unloading until it become a reflex.

A combat reload is where you use your off hand to take a magazine and hit the release with it then rock the new one in.

Do not use a laser get a light with a Cree p4 and a very tight beam.

The beam will be so tight at the range you are engaging at that it will act as a sight, and identify who you are firing on.

[billeisele 122]

semi-auto is a poor choice, too many things that can go wrong with gun, misfeed, jam, etc.

pump will almost never fail, can easily clear a misfeed or jam

Rem 870, 18" barrel, loaded with #4, this has more pellets and is only slightly smaller than 00

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[Rookie120 0]

Remington 870. Great shotgut! Never fails, fairly cheap and it has that great classic shotgun sound when you pump it so if someone is in the house there isn't a doubt in there mind of what you got.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!