JohnRich 4 #1 September 2, 2008 So say the anti-gun folks. But here is yet another case to the contrary, which disproves their pie-in-the-sky theory. News:UK gun crime every hour A GUN crime is carried out in Britain every 52 minutes, new figures showed yesterday. Cops dealt with 9,967 last year — four per cent up on 2006. Firearms-related injuries rose two per cent to 3,048, but deaths fell from 56 to 49. But overall crime FELL by 12 per cent... Source: The Sun Overall crime is down. But gun crime is up. Despite the fact that all handguns and semi-auto long guns were banned in 1997... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #2 September 2, 2008 John, anything reported in the Sun is to be taken with a pinch of salt. It's the British equivalent of your National enquirer. Oh, except for page 3 they're way ahead their. I think that if you care to look you'll find gun crime us up all over Europe. I know that here in Spain it certainly is, an we have more relaxed gun laws, although we can't walk around with hand guns we can keep rifles and shotguns at home, in a firearm safe. The reason gun crime has risen over the last few years has a lot to do with the opening up of the old eastern block countries an the ease of which hand guns can enter European countries from those old Russian satellites. On the bright side most of us decent European villains don't carry guns, we prefer knives keeping it up close an personal. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #3 September 2, 2008 Quote I think that if you care to look you'll find gun crime us up all over Europe. I know that here in Spain it certainly is, an we have more relaxed gun laws, although we can't walk around with hand guns we can keep rifles and shotguns at home, in a firearm safe. The reason gun crime has risen over the last few years has a lot to do with the opening up of the old eastern block countries an the ease of which hand guns can enter European countries from those old Russian satellites. Well, the laws that say you can't carry handguns around but can keep rifles and shotguns at home should take care of that, zip-zap! Right? Oh, what's that? Criminals won't let themselves be bound by those laws?? Then why do the GOOD people have to be?! Quote On the bright side most of us decent European villains don't carry guns, we prefer knives keeping it up close an personal. Oh, that's a comfort! I mean, what harm can knives do??Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #4 September 2, 2008 Quote ... Oh, that's a comfort! I mean, what harm can knives do?? Oh my! You found another continent - what do you know about crime statistics in Japan (Asia)? (Running feet, hasty typing fingers - google, reuters et al .....)No, not Reuters, Yahoo... dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #5 September 2, 2008 Strange... I see that there's a post by someone named "chirstelsebine" but when I move my mouse over it, the computer makes all this static and interference over the screen and speakers... Can't make out a word...Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #6 September 2, 2008 Quote John, anything reported in the Sun is to be taken with a pinch of salt. So, when "The Sun" quotes Home Office figures, then they're just making those numbers up and lying about them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #7 September 2, 2008 >So, when "The Sun" quotes Home Office figures, then they're just making >those numbers up and lying about them? Think about what your reaction would be if Michael Moore published something showing that crime dropped dramatically in an area with a recent ban on assault weapons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #8 September 2, 2008 I just wish that, the anti gun folks would understand, banning good, honest citizens from having guns does not work! The 'bad guys' are always going to have them and usually 'bigger' and 'badder' than law enforcement! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #9 September 2, 2008 Quote>So, when "The Sun" quotes Home Office figures, then they're just making >those numbers up and lying about them? Think about what your reaction would be if Michael Moore published something showing that crime dropped dramatically in an area with a recent ban on assault weapons. Actually, the home office in question was doing a bit of those games too. Gun injuries and fatalies are down 12%! (not said - gun deaths are up 20%) Never trust summary reports at face value. When a newspaper cites it, double check, as reporters lose a lot of detail, either by intent, or more often by ignorance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 September 2, 2008 Quote Gun injuries and fatalies are down 12%! (not said - gun deaths are up 20%). Those damn "fatalies"..I think this can be directly attributed to better aiming. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #11 September 2, 2008 wait so injuries are down so much that fatalaties can take a 20% hit and still looked good when combined? I agree...better aiming due to more docile victims.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #12 September 2, 2008 Quotewait so injuries are down so much that fatalaties can take a 20% hit and still looked good when combined? I agree...better aiming due to more docile victims. or worse care in the ER? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #13 September 2, 2008 I think you are on to something... less guns = less gun crime = less shootings = less practice treating gunshot wounds = more gun fatalities = kevin baconwww.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #14 September 2, 2008 anyone want to question the notion that the US ER is the best in the world for shooting victims? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfc 0 #15 September 2, 2008 Quotewait so injuries are down so much that fatalaties can take a 20% hit and still looked good when combined? I agree...better aiming due to more docile victims. There were only 59 gun related homicides, up from 49. You have to put in into perspective. You have to add some zeros to this to get the the US gun related homicide figure. To answer the question in the title, yes the UK has less guns and less gun crime than the USA. (and the UK counts air guns in its stats) Does it mean anything, no, it is like comparing apples and bullets. It is just another bash of the UK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #16 September 2, 2008 No it's not a bash of the UK. It's a bash of the UK's gun control policies because we don't want to have a right taken away for a pipe dream.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfc 0 #17 September 3, 2008 QuoteNo it's not a bash of the UK. It's a bash of the UK's gun control policies because we don't want to have a right taken away for a pipe dream. You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come. The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns. It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #18 September 3, 2008 QuoteQuoteNo it's not a bash of the UK. It's a bash of the UK's gun control policies because we don't want to have a right taken away for a pipe dream. You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come. The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns. It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason). I've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK and simply likes to show gun bans around the world are not working. How do you brits not get that? Keep your gun ban if you like....that's fine with us but as long as you do us progunners will conitnue to use it as a good example of what we don't want and why. Now quit taking it so damn personally. Also when referring to the 'UK gun ban' we are referring to the ban enacted in your country in 1997.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfc 0 #19 September 3, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteNo it's not a bash of the UK. It's a bash of the UK's gun control policies because we don't want to have a right taken away for a pipe dream. You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come. The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns. It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason). I've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK and simply likes to show gun bans around the world are not working. How do you brits not get that? Keep your gun ban if you like....that's fine with us but as long as you do us progunners will conitnue to use it as a good example of what we don't want and why. Now quit taking it so damn personally. Also when referring to the 'UK gun ban' we are referring to the ban enacted in your country in 1997. Nothing personal, I don't care about the UK gun ban, I haven't lived there for 8 years. UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that. All the BS stats people post about guns here should have told you one thing and that is that you can find stats to prove anything you want. The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away. I had hoped that the SCOTUS ruling would have helped put that to rest but I guess not. One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #20 September 3, 2008 Quote Quote wait so injuries are down so much that fatalaties can take a 20% hit and still looked good when combined? I agree...better aiming due to more docile victims. or worse care in the ER? Can't be that! England has free, excellent medical care! Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #21 September 3, 2008 QuoteI've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK Bollocks. UK bashing is one of John's favourite passtimes. The irony is that he absolutely hates it when someone bashes the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 September 3, 2008 Quote UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that. What other nation recently changed to a total ban, not to mention was the basis for much of our government and system of law? There's no better example out there than England, however much the two have diverged in 2 centuries. Quote The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away. You can't ignore the facts here. Until Nov of 2000, the Brady people were hardly subtle about their desires to take guns away. Only three years ago San Francisco tried to do it anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfc 0 #23 September 3, 2008 QuoteQuote UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that. What other nation recently changed to a total ban, not to mention was the basis for much of our government and system of law? There's no better example out there than England, however much the two have diverged in 2 centuries. Quote The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away. You can't ignore the facts here. Until Nov of 2000, the Brady people were hardly subtle about their desires to take guns away. Only three years ago San Francisco tried to do it anyway. Can't ignore facts, you can't get the facts right, the spin from the pro-gun is so strong you have been fooled into believing BS. The UK gun ban is not a total ban, it is a handgun ban. As far a running scared, I can see why the pro-gun was so strong before the SCOTUS ruling, but now the rights have been clearly stated it wont be going away any time soon, so why not try and clean up some of the illegal stuff? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #24 September 3, 2008 Quote John, anything reported in the Sun is to be taken with a pinch of salt. It's the British equivalent of your National enquirer. Oh, except for page 3 they're way ahead their. I think that if you care to look you'll find gun crime us up all over Europe. I know that here in Spain it certainly is, an we have more relaxed gun laws, although we can't walk around with hand guns we can keep rifles and shotguns at home, in a firearm safe. The reason gun crime has risen over the last few years has a lot to do with the opening up of the old eastern block countries an the ease of which hand guns can enter European countries from those old Russian satellites. On the bright side most of us decent European villains don't carry guns, we prefer knives keeping it up close an personal. So again. What the fuck good is a gun in a safe if someone breaks in your house in the middle of the nite. "Dear. Someone's in the house. OK dear. Let me wake and find the keys/combo to the safe" Then again I sleep w/ a gun and a knife w/in arms reach. And mine's(pistol) always hotI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #25 September 3, 2008 Latest news... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
