tcnelson 1
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Quotethe end is near when the producers and payers start saying, "fuck it, what's the point. why should i keep paying in when i could get it for free just like them." that's why redistribution of wealth works in theory and not in reality.
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Pretty sad, ain't it?
Chuck
Warning: inflammatory rhetoric!
Then why not send blacks back to Africa? Have you seen what some ghettos look like?
End of inflammatory rhetoric.
The fact is illegal immigrants aren't taking our jobs. They do jobs nobody wants because the pay is too cheap by US standards. They also contribute to our economy indirectly by working for cheap, thereby reducing the costs of production. We can keep them out and reduce our social spending, but that will be offset by much higher prices.
I think I saw a study somewhere that said the annual cost of each illegal was roughly $2,700 per taxpayer. That's $51 a week. Higher food prices caused by restricting illegals from entering the country would probably eat up (pardon the pun) that cost, and we'd end up paying more.
Then why not send blacks back to Africa? Have you seen what some ghettos look like?
End of inflammatory rhetoric.
The fact is illegal immigrants aren't taking our jobs. They do jobs nobody wants because the pay is too cheap by US standards. They also contribute to our economy indirectly by working for cheap, thereby reducing the costs of production. We can keep them out and reduce our social spending, but that will be offset by much higher prices.
I think I saw a study somewhere that said the annual cost of each illegal was roughly $2,700 per taxpayer. That's $51 a week. Higher food prices caused by restricting illegals from entering the country would probably eat up (pardon the pun) that cost, and we'd end up paying more.
QuoteWarning: inflammatory rhetoric!
Then why not send blacks back to Africa? Have you seen what some ghettos look like?
End of inflammatory rhetoric.
The fact is illegal immigrants aren't taking our jobs. They do jobs nobody wants because the pay is too cheap by US standards. They also contribute to our economy indirectly by working for cheap, thereby reducing the costs of production. We can keep them out and reduce our social spending, but that will be offset by much higher prices.
I think I saw a study somewhere that said the annual cost of each illegal was roughly $2,700 per taxpayer. That's $51 a week. Higher food prices caused by restricting illegals from entering the country would probably eat up (pardon the pun) that cost, and we'd end up paying more.
pure speculation.....
How much would taxes go down?
How much would health care go down?
How much does it cost for the hundreds of thoughsand
of illeagals in prison in the US for other crimes committed?
Bring me some Numbers not speculation.
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
Illegal aliens are NOT necessarily coming here to work. Lou Dobbs recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. So, for a good proportion of these people, the American dream is crime and welfare, not coming here to work.
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
Illegal aliens absolutely do not contribute more than they cost. Certainly the millions in prison and on welfare aren't contributing a dime to our economy, and the ones who are working often are paid in cash with no deductions for taxes at all. The ones who use fraudulent social security numbers and qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes. We have seen them pay less than $100 in taxes and get back $4,000 refunds (thanks to earned income tax credits and multiple dependents). The Center for Immigration Studies estimates that the average Mexican illegal alien costs U.S. taxpayers a whopping $55,000 each. Some bargain, eh?
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
tcnelson 1
QuoteThen why not send blacks back to Africa? Have you seen what some ghettos look like?
okaley dokaley...i don't follow but, anyway...
what i posted that you're replying to is a fact. blacks have nothing to do with it. people who don't pay taxes to support their community have everything to do with it.
the rest of the stuff you wrote is hypothetical and speculative so, ok.
"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329
Without illegal aliens, the price of agricultural products and other goods and services will NOT soar. The definitive study on this subject is the University of Iowa's "How Much Is That Tomato?" The study concludes that 'since labor is such a small component of the end-price of agricultural products (which includes price to the growers, transportation costs, processing /storage costs, grocers' profit, etc.), using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens would increase prices of agricultural products by approximately 3 percent in the summer and 4 percent in the winter ... hardly the making of $10 heads of lettuce, $25 hamburgers, $1,000 per night Days Inn hotel rooms like the pro-illegal alien lobby claims.
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
Oh, and by the way.... Which country has the fifth richest economy in the world? (Hint- MEXICO).
Mexico also has more resources per square mile than the U.S.
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
Mexico also has more resources per square mile than the U.S.
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
QuoteWhich country has the fith richest economy in the world?
What do you mean by 5th richest economy? GNP? GNP per Capita?
"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."
Yours is an often used but inaccurate argument. I addressed it in my original post. The funny thing about Americans is that they always figure out how to produce more with less. American farmers have steadily increased production year over year for hundreds of years by using hard work, wit, technology, whatever it took.
You argument falls apart when a guy can make $100k a year mowing lawns in Las Vegas. Vegas you say? Isn't that illegal immigrant central? Base on your argument shouldn't you be able to stay in hotels for $10 a night, get meals in restaurants for $1 and get your lawn mowed for $5 if what you say about the "need' for illegal mexican labor is true? The fact is that educated, motivated, and innovative American workers will always be able to come up with ways to do things better and for less costs. Using cheap illegal labor is just stifles our economy from growing faster and becoming more efficient. Our economy is #1 because we have moved forward into more knowledge based work, and industrial based work for the previous 100 years. The US didn't get to where it is by using 1000 of uneducated workers to do a task that someone could figure out how to do better, faster, and cheaper with new equipment & technology. Illegal immigrant labor is a crutch and one that could easily put us behind our economic rivals in that not too distant future.
You argument falls apart when a guy can make $100k a year mowing lawns in Las Vegas. Vegas you say? Isn't that illegal immigrant central? Base on your argument shouldn't you be able to stay in hotels for $10 a night, get meals in restaurants for $1 and get your lawn mowed for $5 if what you say about the "need' for illegal mexican labor is true? The fact is that educated, motivated, and innovative American workers will always be able to come up with ways to do things better and for less costs. Using cheap illegal labor is just stifles our economy from growing faster and becoming more efficient. Our economy is #1 because we have moved forward into more knowledge based work, and industrial based work for the previous 100 years. The US didn't get to where it is by using 1000 of uneducated workers to do a task that someone could figure out how to do better, faster, and cheaper with new equipment & technology. Illegal immigrant labor is a crutch and one that could easily put us behind our economic rivals in that not too distant future.
Quoteyeah, they buy from the local grocery store etc. but, the cost of supporting illegals far outweighs the "local contribution" they make. furthermore, much of the money that illegals make in america goes back to their families in the foreign nation that they came from.
So many of you believe this, but I haven't seen any real proof. Just WAGs about how many are in prison and how much money they're sending home.
Let me put it this way - the Democrat and Republican governors of California (and I'm quite sure Texas) have continued to allow substantial numbers of 'migrant workers' to exist. If it were really a drain on the state economy, wouldn't they act (esp the GOP) to stop it?
For that reason alone, I think it's time for you to put up real proof, not conjecture.
We know they pay sales taxes. They don't pay income tax, though at the money they're making, I doubt they would owe any, or pass the lowest bracket (15%?) In keeping a low profile, they do not use as many services - ER might be the only one and then only if they're really hurting.
Note: this is all aside from the question of right or wrong. But it's better to work with factual data before moving on to that one.
From an environmental standpoint, I think zero population growth would be good for the country, and esp for CA. Most of our growth comes from immigration and higher birth rates in the poorer segments of society. But from an economics standpoint, I suspect this growth, and this low cost labor force, is key.
*** "This coming from BASE jumper. Pretty good."
Are BASE jumpers here illegally?
Are all BASE jumps illegal?
Are BASE jumpers here illegally?
Are all BASE jumps illegal?
wmw999 2,177
Quote36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare
I'd really question that number, depending on what's considered welfare. Free school lunches?
I used to work for the welfare department. No green card, no welfare. No food stamps. Members of the family WITH green cards got them, but if there were 3 legal and 2 illegal, they got a 3-person allotment. AND they got questioned about how they survived on that. AND any income that the illegal earned did count against them.
As a Spanish-speaking worker, I was intimately familiar with this. That was 30 years ago. I'm sure it hasn't gotten easier.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
GNP and I stand corrected... they are 8th.
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
Quote*** "This coming from BASE jumper. Pretty good."
Are all BASE jumps illegal?
I was pointing out the irony of a BASE jumper getting on the law & order bandwagon.
If you were to say all of your jumps were legal, I'd gladly retract the statement. Of course, somehow I don't think I'll have to do that.
Quote*** "This coming from BASE jumper. Pretty good."
Are BASE jumpers here illegally?
Are all BASE jumps illegal?
The majority of base jumps done in the US are.
It's a petty crime at most (trespassing), but if someone wants to take a hard line about obeying the law, it's fair game.
wmw999 2,177
Quotea guy can make $100k a year mowing lawns in Las Vegas
A guy can. A guy also came up with the theory of relativity. Does that mean anyone can? There's not enough of a market for everyone to get rich mowing lawns. A whole lot more people barely eke out a living.
I'm sure there are DZ owners who make good money. The ones who don't probably aren't all lazy.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/infopays/rank/PNB1.html
These data are 2 yrs old
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
These data are 2 yrs old
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
Steel 0
Quote
But, there is a large difference between FOX and SH
ofcourse there is an enormus difference between them as well as between Mexico and Iraq. You would think that a physics professor can't be so clueless as to think that they are the same. Well actually I don't believe that somebody with that high of an education really can not understand this.
It comes back to what I said about people who don't come right out and say they support AQ / terrorism. Still, by blatantly make challenges based on false statements for the purpose of justifying our enemies actions, they are telling me that they are on the side of my enemies (the terrorists).
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
juanesky 0
Nope, you are wrong. TIN stands for Tax Identification Number. They will allow you to apply for one, has to be notarized, if you don't have a SSN, then the IRS will allow you to file to get a TIN number.
Maybe it implies to you, but when an immigrant is here on illegal status, they get pretty knowledgeable on what they can do, or can't do, or ways to get into main stream...... or stream the medium.
Maybe it implies to you, but when an immigrant is here on illegal status, they get pretty knowledgeable on what they can do, or can't do, or ways to get into main stream...... or stream the medium.
"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon
The fact is illegal immigrants aren't taking our jobs. They do jobs nobody wants because the pay is too cheap by US standards. They also contribute to our economy indirectly by working for cheap, thereby reducing the costs of production. We can keep them out and reduce our social spending, but that will be offset by much higher prices.
I think I saw a study somewhere that said the annual cost of each illegal was roughly $2,700 per taxpayer. That's $51 a week. Higher food prices caused by restricting illegals from entering the country would probably eat up (pardon the pun) that cost, and we'd end up paying more.
I think I saw a study somewhere that said the annual cost of each illegal was roughly $2,700 per taxpayer. That's $51 a week. Higher food prices caused by restricting illegals from entering the country would probably eat up (pardon the pun) that cost, and we'd end up paying more.
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Everyone who is 'pro' illegals beats the same damned drum! The part they don't understand is, they 'will' take any job they can get. From the border of Texas & Mexico, they go straight to the Northern States to the high paying factory, assembly-line, truck driving and construction jobs. Hell-fire! They don't want the lettuce, avocado pickin' jobs either. Those here 'legally', 2nd., 3rd. generation, complain about the illegals getting on the welfare rolls and all the other govt. 'gimme's. They are able to purchase the documents ie SS cards, driver's license & birth cirtificates. Nobody checks these!
Chuck
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329
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