Random Drug Testing...........

[skydyvr 0]

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Don't judge me, i won't judge you, O.K.?

Well, leaving anything personal out of it of course, I just can't grasp your attitude. And from Texas, no less!

I don't use drugs, and have VERY begrudgingly submitted to testing before as a condition of employment. My attitude was nothing like "well, since I'm clean, there is nothing to worry about".

It was more like "this is a HUGE infringment upon my personal privacy, but I'll submit because really want the job". Tough decision, and one that made me angry to have to make.

. . =(_8^(1)

[waltappel 1]

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The 2 responses i've gotten so far, both posters have failed to answer the question i asked. Would you submit to a random drug screen, yes or no?

Any time! I wouldn't hold it against anyone who refused to take a drug test, though. I don't see that there is any problem with drug-abusing skydivers representing any kind of threat to public safety.

[billvon 2,478]

>I can only deduce that refusal is an admission of guilt . . .

I have never done an illegal drug in my life, and I have always refused drug tests. It has at times limited me in what jobs I could get (not any more, fortunately.) While GC/MS tests are pretty accurate, the simpler assay tests done for most employment screening have a pretty high false positive rate.

[slug 1]

Hi Rich

the origional question was

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In light of Busch & Nextel Cup driver Shane Hmiel's indefinite suspension for his second failure to pass a drug test in as many years, would anyone here be opposed to submitting to random drug testing if it was ever imposed on us as sky divers?

This came to my mind because sky diving is a sport just like NasCar, and it's just as, if not more dangerous. I have personally seen drugs on DZ's. Personally i don't care for it. Even though i choose to not do drugs doesn't mean others will not do them.

How do you feel about "Sharing The Sky" with someone who "may" be UTI of some type of illicit substance? And would you submit to a random drug screen?

I would submit, and i don't care to share the sky with someone whom i think could or may be UTI. What do ya'll think?

Then you changed it to "This thread is getting off track. The original question was simply would you, or would you not submit to a random ua."

Can't have it both ways Why do you want to require skydivers to have random UA's?

Would you share the sky with someone you know is UTI.

Would you feel better sharing the sky with someone if they were UTI of prescribed meds that left them impaired?

R.I.P.

[Ron 7]

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The famous "false positive" problem. Until the false positives can be eliminated, drug testing is just a lottery

I have taken drug tests with my job...(FAA, DOT)
I took drug tests in the Military.
I take drig tests for Sky Dive City.

I have taken well over 30 drug tests...No positives.

I find it funny you back science all the time...until it hurts your position.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Botellines 0]

30 drug tests is not representative of anything. Not even 100 or 1000 for that matter.

The question is: Is it possible to give a false positive? If so, Why would you put yourself at risk unless it was absolutely necesary?

[craddock 0]

30 tests is a tiny sample group in determining likelyhood of a false positive. The original poster used his dozen or so as proof their is no such thing as a false positive also.

You can't be serious are you?

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[kallend 1,683]

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The famous "false positive" problem. Until the false positives can be eliminated, drug testing is just a lottery.

That's very odd. I've been in the petroleum industry for over 25+ years. I've taken at least 3 dozen drug tests, never any "false positives" no problems at all. .

Lucky you. What about the 2% or so who do get false positives?

I haven't yet died skydiving, so I guess skydiving is perfectly safe.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[craddock 0]

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Lucky you. What about the 2% or so who do get false positives?

I haven't yet died skydiving, so I guess skydiving is perfectly safe.

I know lot's of people who have jumped at high wingloading with low jumps without injury. And none who have gotten hurt soley because of this.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[Ron 7]

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The question is: Is it possible to give a false positive? If so, Why would you put yourself at risk unless it was absolutely necesary?

Well, I have already stated I don't agree with random testing for recreational activities.

An employer has the right, just as you have the right not to apply for a job that requires it.

As for the false positives, most good drug screening programs have a follow up test for any positives.

So if the cheap test pops you, the second much better test will clear you if you you are really not guilty.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

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30 drug tests is not representative of anything. Not even 100 or 1000 for that matter.

The question is: Is it possible to give a false positive? If so, Why would you put yourself at risk unless it was absolutely necesary?

There are no absolutes in life, if you wait for everything to be 100% accurate, then you can live in a cave forever.

An intelligent test program would look at the test failure rate (Kallend note 2% - I don't know if it's accurate) and then set sample sizes and retest procuedures accordingly. I believe this is the case and where it isn't, then those organizations will be out of businees from court cases quickly enough. In fact, I'd suspect for cost reasons, only fails are validated with followup testing to avoid judgement on false fails. I suspect the false passers are just ignored.

That said - random drig tests for anything other than employment qualification is wrong. I'd absolutely refuse for recreation or private life but wouldn't deride someone voluntarily choosing to be tested for any reason.

And I don't do any recreational drugs and think they are stupid, so I'm not biased toward the pot heads or anything, but privacy rights are very important.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rwieder 0]

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Fair enough. Then may I assume you would extend your philosophy to allow govt agents (or agents representing your employer) periodically entering your house just to look around?

Asked, and answered. Shouldv'e done a poll.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[78RATS 0]

The key word is "submit". Don't submit to shit.

Got a problem, get a warrant. Protected by the 4th Amendment...don't even ask.

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[Alias 0]

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And would you submit to a random drug screen?

No - I would not

In regards to skydiving - It is not logical to test for something on a certain day, that could have been injested weeks prior - leaving no altered state of consciousness at the time of the test.

Just silly -

Carpe Diem

[kelpdiver 2]

Richard, if your concern is for jumpers that are under the influence, what does testing for past drug use actually tell you? The test isn't instant, so you'll still be in the sky with them on that day. If they were drinking, it won't show up on the results, and as we've seen, if they had a poppyseed bagel it might show up for opiates.

What you really want is a field sobriety test. Not sure you can make one that covers the bases, but in any event a DZ outside of China that tried to implement such a process would be out of business within the month.

[rehmwa 2]

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What you really want is a field sobriety test.

We already have them. Eyeballs, nose, brains, memory. At least at small DZs you know who's off their rocker and you don't jump with them while they are under the influence. A good DZO will ground the idiot too.

I didn't think this was about jumpers who jump doped up, I thought it was about those who have a habit at other times.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Treejumps 0]

*** "i don't care to share the sky with someone whom i think could or may be UTI."

Answer: No

If you don't want to be on a jump with people who are partying, don't jump with them. If you need to feel alll warm and fuzzy that no one on the load is, stay home.

If DZOs want to test their employees they can. If they want to test their customers, they are out of their minds and shortly thereafter, out of business.

[Rick 67]

NO If the test cannot tel if you are uti at the time of the test it is just an invasion of privacy. I left a good job with a national corporation that had bought my sign shop because I "was not prepared to submit to a urinalysis"

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[Ron 7]

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I "was not prepared to submit to a urinalysis"

Try drinking water

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Rick 67]

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Try drinking water


I did but that stuff tatstes nasty after it comes out of the bong

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

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[peregrinerose 0]

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You should really think twice about that. I had to take random drug tests for a year and after 8 straight clean tests one came back positive for opium. The only thing that i could come up with is i had a poppy seed bagle the morning of the test. Although i was able to finally clear myself, it was only after several meetings of me trying to convince people who didn't know me that i had not taken any opiates.
A long ordeal i do not want to ever go through again!

I had a patient come in for eye emergency (metal in eye) and I had to numb the eye to dig out the crap he had in there. He had a drug test the next day due to being on probation. He tested postive for cocaine and came back to me panicking because he had never used cocaine in his life, and wanted to know if any of the drops used could have done it.

The anesthetic I use is proparacaine, a synthetic very weak cocaine analog. It drains through the sinuses, absorbed into the blood stream, and apparently in his case caused a false positive.

On the topic, I agree that random drug testing should not be done. But jumpers under the influence should not be jumping either, and its up to us to take care of each other in that respect.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[PKJumper 0]

Presciption medications can and do cause impairment. Do we poll our fellow jumpers during a dirt dive to determine whether or not they are worthy of sharing our skydive, maybe endanger our lives?

Would you jump with someone hopped up on pain killers, anti seizure medication, anti depressants?

Random drug testing infringes on our most basic rights and freedoms. However, in certain instances it is indeed warranted.

[gkc1436 3]

yup....

if a tree falls in the woods...

it does make noise.....

[Rookie120 0]

There is more than one reason people refuse drug tests.
***

[Rookie120 0]

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30 drug tests is not representative of anything. Not even 100 or 1000 for that matter.

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I think what Ron was saying is that in 30 tests he has never had a false reading. I have have so many drug tests I lost count. Between the military, employers, now the FAA can instruct me to get one on demand along with my employer. I had to go for a drug test 2 weeks ago just because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. A crew smack the tail of one of our jets into the tail stand and I was in the vicinity of the accident so I was involved so I had to take a drug test. I wasnt even working on that damn plane but I had to go, and you know what? I was negative! Everytime I hear someone say well the Captain Crunch I ate this morning gave me a false reading I have to laugh. I have a few friends who smoke every now and then and one got sent for a drug test and was shocked when he came back positive! I told him I watched you smoke up last night, why are you surprised? It is my belief that who ever comes up hot and then says I didnt do it----- Well lets just say you better hope I'm not on that Jury Panel! Happy trails

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

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