kallend 1,683
Quote
I have all my guys sign a paper saying they will take a drug test if asked. I have no intention of ever testing anyone.
But if I caught them smoking pot on the job or if I even smelled it on them they are hsitory.
Not the girls...you sexist bastage...
I can't tell if you agree with what I stated or not, however, some companies policy on "Random Drug Testing" is exactly what yours is. It looks good on paper and not only saves you money but gives you legal standing to test an employee that you have suspicions off. I don't think that "Random Drug Testing" is ment as a form of catching people, but merely a protective measure. If a company chooses to randomly test on a regular bases I do believe it is their right (protective measures only) as is anybodies right to refuse.
Your example is a perfect scenario:
You walk in and smell the odor of marijuana and can tell HE
is high as a kite. He/she denies smoking it. You tell them to submit to the test and they refuse. LEGAL TERMINATION. You don't want to go court because you are civilly sued for wrongfull termination and have to explain how you know what marijuana smells like if you don't smoke it yourself. Not saying you smoke it, but a lawyer will try and hem you up on that. (Fucking lawyers, but thats another thread entirely).
______________________________________________
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Rick 67
Dammit I started out disagreeing with drug testing and you show me a perfect example where it would protect me and my business
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!
...I'm here Monday-Friday 8:00am-5:00pm...
______________________________________________
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Rick 67
thanks chip
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!
sfzombie13 314
had you read the whole post, you could use the scant info i have provided and check it to see that it's only been legal fo 30 years. before that, your right to privacy was defended in the courts. our freedoms are being taken away from us little by little, and anyone who complains is either a terrorist, a drug abuser, or a liberal. i don't want to be labelled(sp) as either. the only time people such as yourselves will notice this trend is when it affects you. by that time it will be way too late to fix it. i wouldn't care too much as i've only got 30-45 years left tops, but i have children and would like them to be as free as i was when i got out of school. fat chance. like my buddie benji wrote "people who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither", slightly paraphrased. small minded people make me sick, and judgemental people are definately small minded.
also, if you're going to fire, or not hire, people for breaking laws, then at least do it uniformly. if sodomy is illegal in your state, then it should preclude homosexuals from being hired. if it doesn't, that says something about you principles(or lack thereof). meaning you can't pick and choose what laws you are willing to ignore. that makes one a hypocrite. and no, this is not a personal attack, just an opinion.
also, if you're going to fire, or not hire, people for breaking laws, then at least do it uniformly. if sodomy is illegal in your state, then it should preclude homosexuals from being hired. if it doesn't, that says something about you principles(or lack thereof). meaning you can't pick and choose what laws you are willing to ignore. that makes one a hypocrite. and no, this is not a personal attack, just an opinion.
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Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Ron 7
Quotehad you read the whole post, you could use the scant info i have provided and check it to see that it's only been legal fo 30 years
Who cares how long it has been legal? I am only 32 so for as long as I can remember it has been legal. PLUS it was not as much as an issue 30 years ago.
Quoteour freedoms are being taken away from us little by little, and anyone who complains is either a terrorist, a drug abuser, or a liberal. i don't want to be labelled(sp) as either.
Did I label you as anything? Nope.
Quotethe only time people such as yourselves will notice this trend is when it affects you.
Nope, I recognize the right of a guy to smoke, shoot up, or snort whatever he pleases...I ALSO (unlike you) recognize the right of an employer to hire who he wants based on whatever he chooses as long as the criteria they use is legal.
The main thing is while I recognize the right of a guy to alter his mind...I also recognize the fact that they must take RESPONSIBILITY for the choices they make. If that means they can't get a 60k a year job since they like to toke on the ganja...Thats the choice they made.
Quotesmall minded people make me sick, and judgemental people are definately small minded.
Is this a personal attack?
Like it or not we ALL are judgemental...Including you with that statement. Do you hate yourself? Or do you only hate those that do not agree with what YOU deem as acceptable?
You need to accept that not eveyone is gonna agree with you. That does not make them evil and out to steal your freedoms.
Quotealso, if you're going to fire, or not hire, people for breaking laws, then at least do it uniformly. if sodomy is illegal in your state, then it should preclude homosexuals from being hired
If being pounded in the ass effected your job performance then I would care. As far as I know pole smoking does not make you a space case.
So how about I agree with hireing people who I think as best suited for the job? And I feel drug users are not suited for MANY jobs.
Quotemeaning you can't pick and choose what laws you are willing to ignore. that makes one a hypocrite. and no, this is not a personal attack, just an opinion.
Sure sounds like a personal attack.
You have called me small minded and a hypocrite. Saying "this is not a personal attack" does not change the attack.
It seems to me you only think YOUR way is the correct one...Who has the small mind again?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
rwieder 0
what are you guys trying to do? get this thread locked and your post deleted? c'mon now, cut it out.
the original intent of this topic was to get a general idea of how everyone felt about random ua's. not to flame each other for their ideas and beliefs. everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and feelings about this subject. i expressed mine, and i expected some scorching, which i recieved.
fact of the matter, in the future every job you will apply for if it involves a major company, law enforcement will require a ua at the time prior to hiring, in the event you are directly involved in an incident, or the computer spits your name out. random ua's are fair. i'm not buying this poppy seed BS, i could eat 6 of them and still pass a ua. that is nothing more than a cop-out. when i take my ski boat to the lake in sommerville, texas or lake travis in austin the army corp of engineers observe the people who operate the water craft constantly, they even have new tools to monitor alcohol levels. i have seen boats confiscated, along with the trailers. but, that's right, it's recreation, not work so that shouldn't apply right? never mind an impaired individual could surely kill an innocent person following the rules. but it's purely recreational, so i'm sure if some one were to make this arguement they would get a get out of jail free card, without the possibility that no one will sue you in a civil court as well.
i am surprised at how many of us are against random ua's. what this tells me is there are more dopers in the sky than i originally thought. hey, long and short of it why would anyone who has nothing to hide refuse a ua? i can't imagine it. the ladies and gentlemen that work for energy companies, including myself are subjected to ua's constantly, yeah we lose a few now and then, but no matter how good a worker they are we cannot take the chance they will be uti and be a factor in an LTA, FA, NM or maybe even a fatality. like it or not, ua's are coming to sky diving community eventually. do you love the sport enough to submit, or not. illicit substances are illegal. the law is the law, like it or not. if you consider yourself a law abiding respectable USA citizen, obey the laws, simple enough, right?
let's not feed the ambulance chasers. they already make enough money the way it is.
the original intent of this topic was to get a general idea of how everyone felt about random ua's. not to flame each other for their ideas and beliefs. everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and feelings about this subject. i expressed mine, and i expected some scorching, which i recieved.
fact of the matter, in the future every job you will apply for if it involves a major company, law enforcement will require a ua at the time prior to hiring, in the event you are directly involved in an incident, or the computer spits your name out. random ua's are fair. i'm not buying this poppy seed BS, i could eat 6 of them and still pass a ua. that is nothing more than a cop-out. when i take my ski boat to the lake in sommerville, texas or lake travis in austin the army corp of engineers observe the people who operate the water craft constantly, they even have new tools to monitor alcohol levels. i have seen boats confiscated, along with the trailers. but, that's right, it's recreation, not work so that shouldn't apply right? never mind an impaired individual could surely kill an innocent person following the rules. but it's purely recreational, so i'm sure if some one were to make this arguement they would get a get out of jail free card, without the possibility that no one will sue you in a civil court as well.
i am surprised at how many of us are against random ua's. what this tells me is there are more dopers in the sky than i originally thought. hey, long and short of it why would anyone who has nothing to hide refuse a ua? i can't imagine it. the ladies and gentlemen that work for energy companies, including myself are subjected to ua's constantly, yeah we lose a few now and then, but no matter how good a worker they are we cannot take the chance they will be uti and be a factor in an LTA, FA, NM or maybe even a fatality. like it or not, ua's are coming to sky diving community eventually. do you love the sport enough to submit, or not. illicit substances are illegal. the law is the law, like it or not. if you consider yourself a law abiding respectable USA citizen, obey the laws, simple enough, right?
let's not feed the ambulance chasers. they already make enough money the way it is.
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
Rick 67
***operate the water craft constantly, they even have new tools to monitor alcohol levels. i have seen boats confiscated, along with the trailers.
drug tests are not like alcohol tests
they only can show if you have imbibed in the last 30 days not if you are under the influence at the time.
drug tests are not like alcohol tests
they only can show if you have imbibed in the last 30 days not if you are under the influence at the time.
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!
billvon 2,478
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>The only people who scream it's against there priciples are the ones
>who pray to Bob Marley!
It's against my principles. I've never done an illegal drug in my life.
>who pray to Bob Marley!
It's against my principles. I've never done an illegal drug in my life.
QuoteIn light of Busch & Nextel Cup driver Shane Hmiel's indefinite suspension for his second failure to pass a drug test in as many years, would anyone here be opposed to submitting to random drug testing if it was ever imposed on us as sky divers?
This came to my mind because sky diving is a sport just like NasCar, and it's just as, if not more dangerous. I have personally seen drugs on DZ's. Personally i don't care for it. Even though i choose to not do drugs doesn't mean others will not do them.
How do you feel about "Sharing The Sky" with someone who "may" be UTI of some type of illicit substance? And would you submit to a random drug screen?
I would submit, and i don't care to share the sky with someone whom i think could or may be UTI. What do ya'll think?
Yes, I would submit to taking random tests!!!
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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty
rwieder 0
Quotedrug tests are not like alcohol tests
they only can show if you have imbibed in the last 30 days not if you are under the influence at the time.
that's not true. drug tests can tell how much has been ingested. for instance if you drink 6 or more beers and take a breathalizer 5 minutes later, surely you will blow a .80 or more but take the same test 6 hours later and the level will drop like an anvil. on the other hand, a ua does the same thing, the concentration level will be higher if the ingestation has been more recent, rather than 2 weeks ago. time is the only thing that will cause the concentration level to drop. these tests have been refined over the years to improve accuracy and to guard the employer against a civil law suit.
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
Rick 67
thanks I did not know that
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!
rwieder 0
QuoteIt's against my principles. I've never done an illegal drug in my life.
explanation, please?
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
billvon 2,478
>>It's against my principles. I've never done an illegal drug in my life.
>explanation, please?
For what? Not doing drugs? Never felt a need to do them; alcohol seems to do the trick for me. Not submitting to drug tests? Two reasons:
1. I feel that others have no business mandating my behavior or biology
2. Since I've never done an illegal drug in my life (and those close to me know that) I'm one of the few people who can speak out against it without being labeled a loser pothead who's just scared he will get busted.
>explanation, please?
For what? Not doing drugs? Never felt a need to do them; alcohol seems to do the trick for me. Not submitting to drug tests? Two reasons:
1. I feel that others have no business mandating my behavior or biology
2. Since I've never done an illegal drug in my life (and those close to me know that) I'm one of the few people who can speak out against it without being labeled a loser pothead who's just scared he will get busted.
unformed 0
Quote
i'm not buying this poppy seed BS, i could eat 6 of them and still pass a ua. that is nothing more than a cop-out.
Try again.
http://www.snopes.com/toxins/poppy.htm
http://www.erowid.org/plants/poppy/poppy_testing.shtml
Poppy seeds contain both Morphine and Codeine and can cause false positives for Opiates in urine tests. Most Opiate urine tests have a cut off level of 300 ng/ml. Ingestion of a single poppy seed bagel can produce an opiate level somewhere around 250 ng/ml three hours later. 3 teaspoons of store bought poppy seeds can result in 1200 ng/ml 6 hours later (1). We have read an estimate that 70% of DOT opiate positives are from poppy seeds. The U.S. Military uses cut off levels of 3000 ng/ml in order to minimize false positives.
The profile and levels of Opiates that show up in a urine test can generally be distinguished from Opiate use if care is taken...however it is not a simple thing and results are often mis-read by companies giving drug tests. If eaten recently and in great enough quantity, poppy seeds will result in positive morphine and codeine results, with morphine predominant. This can be distinguished from recent Codeine use because of the comparative levels of Morphine and Codeine present. However Codeine use in the past (not recent) can result in a similar profile as Morphine is a metabolite of Codeine. Codeine is eliminated from the system more quickly than Morphine, so an extended period after Codeine use, levels of Morphine may be higher than those of Codeine.
The Discovery Channel's MythBusters show did a piece testing whether poppy seeds could cause a false positive on an over-the-counter drug test. Two people were tested for opiates before the experiment began. Both tested negative on this initial test. One person then ate three poppy seed bagels and the other ate poppy seed cake. Both tested positive for opiates within 30 minutes of ingesting the seeds and continued to test positive until 16 hours after ingestion. The same brand of drug test was used in all cases. They called a number of manufacturers of over-the-counter drug tests and were told by all but one that poppy seeds could not cause a false positive.
This ad space for sale.
craddock 0
Quotewhat this tells me is there are more dopers in the sky than i originally thought. hey, long and short of it why would anyone who has nothing to hide refuse a ua? i can't imagine it.
You have either not been paying attention or have a major comprehension problem.
People who have never done drugs have told you why they would refuse a ua.
The only drug I use is alcohol, but I have employed people in the past that I knew used pot in their free time. I could give a fuck, but if I had a choice for them to show up to work in the morning after either getting drunk the night before or stoned, I would all other things being equal take the guy who smoked some pot.
That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.
unformed 0
Quoteon the other hand, a ua does the same thing, the concentration level will be higher if the ingestation has been more recent, rather than 2 weeks ago
This means nothing. Pots effects last for 8 hours max. Get a good night's rest, and you're good to go. Unlike alcohol, where your body is now going through its hangover phase.
Furthermore, pot takes a few days to be detected in urine. I've passed tested after getting ripped the night before, when I hadn't smoked for quite a few times.
So, having a random UA does absolutely nothing. You can't compare this to boaters who are being pulled over to be given a breathalyzer. 1) It's not a random test, and 2) it only checks for drinking in the last eight hours or so.
A random ua check tests for the last 30 days. They do have bloodstream tests to see if you are under the influence AT THE MOMENT, and people have said, they have no problem with making sure someone isn't high while in the sky. But we can already do that. You see someone who is obviously retarded; ground them. Simple as that. You don't even need a reason.
The police don't randomly come into your house, saying you are selected for a random UA, so piss in this, and if you fail, you're not allowed to drive.
This ad space for sale.
Quote2. Since I've never done an illegal drug in my life (and those close to me know that) I'm one of the few people who can speak out against it without being labeled a loser pothead who's just scared he will get busted.
You're in not that small a group.
I've passed on jobs before that had a screening test. Hopefully economics will always let me make that choice. I know how effective those screens are - the people in that particular group were all potheads.
If I were in an accident, I would submit and cooperate with the investigation. That would be probably cause and due dilligence.
QuoteQuoteSpeeding
Will get you fired at my job.
Your company will fire people for an infraction?
Does everyone in the office have a halo over their head?
Ron 7
QuoteYour company will fire people for an infraction?
Well it takes more than one, but it is a discipline letter and any three will get you out the door.
QuoteDoes everyone in the office have a halo over their head?
Only me
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
skydyvr 0
Quote. . . why would anyone who has nothing to hide refuse a ua? i can't imagine it.
My condolences.
. . =(_8^(1)
kallend 1,683
Dangerous argument... If you've got nothing to hide, why would you object to random warrantless searches of your home? Anyone who objects to a random warrantless search of their home must be a crook, right?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rwieder 0
QuoteDangerous argument...
Could Be.
QuoteIf you've got nothing to hide, why would you object to random warrantless searches of your home? Anyone who objects to a random warrantless search of their home must be a crook, right?
Foolish remarks. Not worthy of reply.
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
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