rwieder 0 #1 June 5, 2005 In light of Busch & Nextel Cup driver Shane Hmiel's indefinite suspension for his second failure to pass a drug test in as many years, would anyone here be opposed to submitting to random drug testing if it was ever imposed on us as sky divers? This came to my mind because sky diving is a sport just like NasCar, and it's just as, if not more dangerous. I have personally seen drugs on DZ's. Personally i don't care for it. Even though i choose to not do drugs doesn't mean others will not do them. How do you feel about "Sharing The Sky" with someone who "may" be UTI of some type of illicit substance? And would you submit to a random drug screen? I would submit, and i don't care to share the sky with someone whom i think could or may be UTI. What do ya'll think?-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #2 June 5, 2005 1) Not all drugs can be tested for. 2) Just because one fails a drug test doesn't mean once is under the influence while in the sky. I have no problem making sure no is UTI while in the sky, but what I do on my own time in my own home, as long as it doesn't affect anybody else is nobody's business but mine.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #3 June 5, 2005 QuoteHow do you feel about "Sharing The Sky" with someone who "may" be UTI of some type of illicit substance? And would you submit to a random drug screen? I would submit, and i don't care to share the sky with someone whom i think could or may be UTI. What do ya'll think? Hi rwieder How are you today Why restrict drug screening to illicit drugs only? Some Prescription drugs can be as distracting as illicit drugs. Other factors can affect a persons performance like lack of sleep, hung over, etc. IMO Any type of random testing for fun jumpers will just be for show. Reading the incident reports on DZ.com I don't see where drugs were a problem in the majority of fatalities. A random IQ test might have been more effective. BTW Maybe this subject should be switched to general skydiving for more exposure. Have a Nice day R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #4 June 5, 2005 The 2 responses i've gotten so far, both posters have failed to answer the question i asked. Would you submit to a random drug screen, yes or no? I think we can all agree that sky diving is a high performance sport. What incited my question was if drug testing was mandatory would you be willing to undego a random drug screen. In the NFL, NBA, Pro baseball, Olympics, NasCar etc the tests are random and some very talented athletes have lost their jobs because of a failure to pass a drug screen. All drug screens come with a form, you write down all of the prescription drugs you are taking that way the screeners already know what you are alr taking.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #5 June 5, 2005 When the salaries start to approach those pro sports you are comparing to, and it is in contracts that it is a banned substance for employment, then yes by all means I have know problem with testing. Until then I could give a shit less if someone uses drugs as long as there not jumping all fucked up. Or are you suggesting that non working sport jumpers be tested for drug use? That is ridiculious. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jceman 1 #6 June 5, 2005 QuoteThe 2 responses i've gotten so far, both posters have failed to answer the question i asked. Would you submit to a random drug screen, yes or no? NO! What part of "innocent until proven guilty" does not appeal to you. I have had to undergo "random" drug testing while a member of the armed forces. The Unifor Code of Military Justice takes away some of the freedoms we signed up to defend, but I could understand some of it and went along grudgingly. As far as the private sector goes, I feel it is of nosone's business unless I am displaying behavior that suggests I am using and endangering someone else or in some way degrading the quality of my work. I have refused to take a pre-employment drug screen and told the prospective employer why. I also told them that I would agree to any drug test if they showed me probable cause and would also have my own done at my cost at the same time; if both test were negative or in dispute, I fully expected them to reimburse me if I passed. I got the job. Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money. Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justaflygirl 0 #7 June 5, 2005 Quote1) Not all drugs can be tested for. 2) Just because one fails a drug test doesn't mean once is under the influence while in the sky. I have no problem making sure no is UTI while in the sky, but what I do on my own time in my own home, as long as it doesn't affect anybody else is nobody's business but mine. THANK YOU!!!! very well said especially....but what I do on my own time in my own home, as long as it doesn't affect anybody else is nobody's business but mine i dont really care about drinking, but I am a very safety minded person, and I love my skydiving family, I would never do anything in this sport to hurt myslef or anyothers, but what I do in my time is my business, and I dont need other people goverening me just b/c they dont agree with it. Someone who is UTI from alchoal is just as dangerous in the sky as someone UTI from other substances, I dont support either during jump hours... and to answer your question, no I wont or wouldnt.. I am mature enough to not do any kind of anything during the day... and what I did upto 30 days ago has nothing to do with my awareness today... I am totally against driving under influence of anything, but that doesnt mean I cant drive the next morning after getting plowed the night before.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #8 June 5, 2005 Of course I'd submit to a random drug test, any time any place Of course random has its short comings so lets test every oneWhat good is a drug test that shows a person consumed the evil weed within the last 30-60-90 days. The test for the evil weed only shows that the testee was a consumer sometime in the past, and is not a predicitor of their present ability's or level of impairedness. This subject was brought up in the past buy the FAA: requireing testing of jump pilots and possiiably staff, (not sure about the staff) USPA and the GMDZ's lobbied against it and won. Your spending a lot of time at the DZ you know who's doing what and you don't have to jump with anyone you don't want to so whats the point of a random drug test, in the contest of skydiving if you consder someone impaired or not worthy don't jump with them. It happens all the time. Lots of people jump on teams or just with friends, if you joined one of those groups would you feel more secureIf you do a search on DZ.com /drug testing you'll see this subject was discussed befor. and will probably be discussed again at some 4:20 Safety meeting R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #9 June 5, 2005 QuoteThe 2 responses i've gotten so far, both posters have failed to answer the question i asked. Would you submit to a random drug screen, yes or no? Hell no. This isn't a job, this is something I'm doing for recreation. Me failing a drugtest implies nothing about my abilities when I'm sober. Any dz which drug tests me lost a customer, and I'm sure they'll quite a few others as well.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #10 June 5, 2005 YES for banned substances and alcohol. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #11 June 5, 2005 QuoteIn light of Busch & Nextel Cup driver Shane Hmiel's indefinite suspension for his second failure to pass a drug test in as many years, would anyone here be opposed to submitting to random drug testing if it was ever imposed on us as sky divers? At the World meet there was a drug test. You don't random everybody that races....So why random everyone that jumps? I have no problme with drug test FOR EMPLOYMENT. But for recreation? Get real."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tmontana 0 #12 June 5, 2005 Quote Of course I'd submit to a random drug test, any time any place You should really think twice about that. I had to take random drug tests for a year and after 8 straight clean tests one came back positive for opium. The only thing that i could come up with is i had a poppy seed bagle the morning of the test. Although i was able to finally clear myself, it was only after several meetings of me trying to convince people who didn't know me that i had not taken any opiates. A long ordeal i do not want to ever go through again!___________________________________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #13 June 5, 2005 QuoteQuote Of course I'd submit to a random drug test, any time any place You should really think twice about that. I had to take random drug tests for a year and after 8 straight clean tests one came back positive for opium. The only thing that i could come up with is i had a poppy seed bagle the morning of the test. Although i was able to finally clear myself, it was only after several meetings of me trying to convince people who didn't know me that i had not taken any opiates. A long ordeal i do not want to ever go through again! The famous "false positive" problem. Until the false positives can be eliminated, drug testing is just a lottery.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #14 June 5, 2005 QuoteThe famous "false positive" problem. Until the false positives can be eliminated, drug testing is just a lottery. That's very odd. I've been in the petroleum industry for over 25+ years. I've taken at least 3 dozen drug tests, never any "false positives" no problems at all. The drill crews and other service hands are actually allowed xx nanograms etc...as administration representation for the company i work for it's "Zero Tolerance" for me. The current testing procedures and protocol, equipment etc...it would be pretty hard to screw up. Then if you refuse a urine test, you can always opt for blood to be drawn. I don't understand the retincy of the individuals in these forums to submit to drug testing. I can only deduce that refusal is an admission of guilt, and it is considered so in my profession. No test, no job. In any event, i just wanted to "check the pulse" as it were to see "who's who" If i were to take a drug test today they would find nothing more than DaSani drinking water. After all, recreation or not, would we want to board a jumpship with a "Stoned Pilot?" I think not.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #15 June 5, 2005 QuoteI can only deduce that refusal is an admission of guilt . . . If that's true, then your ability to deduce is flawed. There is more than one reason people refuse drug tests. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tmontana 0 #16 June 5, 2005 QuoteI can only deduce that refusal is an admission of guilt, and it is considered so in my profession. No test, no job. And that is where the problem lies with drug tests, if you refuse you are considered guilty. In fact the whole idea of the random test implies you are guilty, now piss in this cup and prove you are not guilty.___________________________________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #17 June 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe famous "false positive" problem. Until the false positives can be eliminated, drug testing is just a lottery. That's very odd. I've been in the petroleum industry for over 25+ years. I've taken at least 3 dozen drug tests, never any "false positives" no problems at all. The drill crews and other service hands are actually allowed xx nanograms etc...as administration representation for the company i work for it's "Zero Tolerance" for me. The current testing procedures and protocol, equipment etc...it would be pretty hard to screw up. Then if you refuse a urine test, you can always opt for blood to be drawn. I don't understand the retincy of the individuals in these forums to submit to drug testing. I can only deduce that refusal is an admission of guilt, and it is considered so in my profession. No test, no job. In any event, i just wanted to "check the pulse" as it were to see "who's who" If i were to take a drug test today they would find nothing more than DaSani drinking water. After all, recreation or not, would we want to board a jumpship with a "Stoned Pilot?" I think not. Fair enough. Then may I assume you would extend your philosophy to allow govt agents (or agents representing your employer) periodically entering your house just to look around? jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #18 June 5, 2005 QuoteFair enough. Then may I assume you would extend your philosophy to allow govt agents (or agents representing your employer) periodically entering your house just to look around? I have very close ties with the law enforcement officials in my town, and county. I have law enforcement officials in my home all the time. And no, i would have no problem with anyone coming to my home. I have absolutely nothing to be paranoid about. This thread is getting off track. The original question was simply would you, or would you not submit to a random ua. How it expanded into "Big Brother" and all of this other complete BS is beyond me.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #19 June 5, 2005 QuoteIn any event, i just wanted to "check the pulse" as it were to see "who's who" If i were to take a drug test today they would find nothing more than DaSani drinking water. After all, recreation or not, would we want to board a jumpship with a "Stoned Pilot?" I think not. *** Except a pilot may fail a drug test because a week ago he was in Amsterdam, where it was absolutely legal to smoke. That doesn't mean he is stoned. Marijuana stays in your system for up to thirty days.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #20 June 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteFair enough. Then may I assume you would extend your philosophy to allow govt agents (or agents representing your employer) periodically entering your house just to look around? I have very close ties with the law enforcement officials in my town, and county. I have law enforcement officials in my home all the time. And no, i would have no problem with anyone coming to my home. I have absolutely nothing to be paranoid about. This thread is getting off track. The original question was simply would you, or would you not submit to a random ua. How it expanded into "Big Brother" and all of this other complete BS is beyond me. Your main concern seems to be you being put in a situation with jumping/flying with a person who is DWI You have total control of that situation. Don't trust the folks your jumping with you don't have to jump with them unless they have a current UA.Don't trust the pilot flying the plane you don't have to get on the plane unless he shows you his UA. This isn't about "Big Brother" it's about people having unrealistic expectations about what to expect in a free society. If your concerned about UA's Your free to set your own standards and find like minded people that will meet them. Don't need big brother to watch your own butt. Your the man R.I.P. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #21 June 6, 2005 QuoteThe original question was simply would you, or would you not submit to a random ua. How it expanded into "Big Brother" and all of this other complete BS is beyond me. Well, OK, but would you mind stepping to the side so you won't hinder the efforts of those who are capable of seeing the connection.. I would submit to a drug test or any other search of my person or property if I were legally required to or felt there was sufficient reason to grant my consent. When they come knocking on your door, get back in touch, maybe, just maybe, it won't be too late to help. jen “This is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause.” – Padme Amidala----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #22 June 6, 2005 Drug testing is bullshitI'm employed as an aircraft mechanic and have to prove I'm not using dope from time to time (random testing). I don't use dope but resent having to prove I don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #23 June 6, 2005 I have a question. Let´s suppose that you are in a party where some dudes are smoking pot, and accidentally you breath some of the smoke. Would a drug test turn out positive? If there is any risk that the test could turn positive, that is a false positive, i am totally against it. If not i am just against it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #24 June 6, 2005 Quote. . . i would have no problem with anyone coming to my home. I have absolutely nothing to be paranoid about. You don't have a problem with officials coming into your home "just to have a look around"? Damn, that is quite fucked up! . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #25 June 6, 2005 QuoteYou don't have a problem with officials coming into your home "just to have a look around"? No one would be allowed to come to my home in an official capacity to just "Have a look around" without the proper documentation, don't get me wrong. But no, i don't have a problem with that. As i've said, this original post is continuing to get "Off Topic" it's not about "Big Brother" and who's going to come knocking on the doors to our homes. QuoteDamn, that is quite fucked up! Don't judge me, i won't judge you, O.K.? -Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
