Tsunami aid - US provides $35m, Japan $30m, UK $29m - France $136,000!?!?

[billvon 2,473]

> I just do not understand why it is so popular with the right in the
>US to slam the UN (and the Europeans) at every given opportunity.

Because they do not always do what we want them to do.

>On the occassion when I turn into Fox News, I always note how they
>just focus so much on this.

Well, it's not really fair to watch FOX as a barometer of US sentiment towards the EU or the UN. It's like listening to a christian radio station and deciding that the people of the US don't like gays.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I just do not understand why it is so popular with the right in the US to slam the UN (and the Europeans) at every given opportunity.

There is a lot of tit for tat going on, here.

[shropshire 0]

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Thus the UN called the US stingy

Sorry Bill, but I don't belive this is accurate .. the man from the UN did not single out the US , if I remember correctly his was a blanket comment covering the Rich nations of the world. It was subsequently picked up by many here as a US bash.

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In controversial remarks shortly after the disaster hit, Mr Egeland accused rich countries of being "stingy" in their response.

- From the BBC

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Mirage63 0]

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I just do not understand why it is so popular with the right in the US to slam the UN (and the Europeans) at every given opportunity. On the occassion when I turn into Fox News, I always note how they just focus so much on this. Some kind of campaign to divert the attention away from the foreign policy failures of the Bush administration?

Tip one: Don't watch Fox news if you don't want to see the "right" slams the UN....it's a show for the far right.

Watch Dan Rather it will make you feel better, and he spends as much time as possible bashing Bush's foreign policy.

Of course in the near future he won't be spending as much time doing this.

[billvon 2,473]

>the man from the UN did not single out the US

You are correct, but that was interpreted by many people eager to take offense as singling out the US.

[shropshire 0]

Thanks.

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but that was interpreted by many people eager to take offense as singling out the US

That appears to be a deep seated problem here.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[christelsabine 1]

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>the man from the UN did not single out the US

You are correct, but that was interpreted by many people eager to take offense as singling out the US.

For all what I watched in European TV until that moment, there never ever was one report singling out any country. Not with one single word. Where, the hell is the problem?
Aids will increase day by day, not doubt. Aids from all Western countries. That's what we've got to do.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[mikkey 0]

Here is a different perspective why aid is important.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/Asia-tsunami/US-pushes-aid-plan-to-avert-terror/2005/01/03/1104601297984.html

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Billions of dollars in aid could be poured into Asia in a long-term plan to ensure under-development does not breed Islamic radicalism and terrorism following the tsunami disaster.

The US and Australia have identified a prompt and successful humanitarian aid effort in south Asia as a national security priority.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell said a failed reconstruction effort could result in victims turning to extremism.

---------------------------------------------------------
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Ron 7]

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We were initially stingy

Have you ever seen the government move fast enough? You know we blew our entire amount of aid on that one disaster right? We didn't know the scope, maybe. But we also are weary to commit everthing we had on one event. You should like that since we are running up a deficit.

How about we not help, but instead take that money and pay off some of our debt?

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Thus the UN called the US stingy. We later increased our aid by an order of magnitude. So now we're not stingy any more. Whatever the cause/effect was, it worked.

So we let them guilt us into more. Bad way to run business.

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Given that the very first reaction by some people here was to slam the French for being stingy, and given that a majority of right-wing posters here spend a considerable amount of time commenting about how the UN is to be ignored, I can't take any outrage over an (at the time deserved) comment very seriously.

As much as you guys claim we are spening ourselfs silly... would think you would want us to not continue that trend.

The fact that the UN played the quilt card is sad. I will give credit to the fact that the UN is pretty good at handling these type of situations.

They are more than willing to spend our money for aid. But I'd rather give that money to the RedCross whos charter it is to help. The UN fails in most other rolls and therefore is mostly worthless. The RedCross would do a better job than the UN.\ in this case.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mr2mk1g 10]

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But I'd rather give that money to the RedCross whos charter it is to help.

And who are looking to the UN to tell them how and where the money and aid needs to go.

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The RedCross would do a better job than the UN.\ in this case.

Except the Red Cross says this is beyond their means to deal with and that it needs to be handled by the UN.

[Ron 7]

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Except the Red Cross says this is beyond their means to deal with and that it needs to be handled by the UN.

Like Is aid th eUN is good at spening others money. But they suck at enforcing their own rules, or running their own houses.

The Redcross would be able to handle it if they had all the money the UN has taken.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,473]

>We didn't know the scope, maybe.

Initially. Then we got criticized, we looked into it, and we upped the amount of aid. Seemed to work out.

>How about we not help, but instead take that money and pay off
>some of our debt?

Saving people's lives is a good use of our money. Killing them is a less-good use. Pork is even worse. If you want to cut something, cut the billions in Wal-Mart subsidies, or the subsidies for the US Country Music museum - at least until the crisis is over.

>So we let them guilt us into more. Bad way to run business.

If you tell a new jumper that they aren't good enough to fly a tiny canopy, and are going to kill someone else with it, are you trying to guilt them into getting a bigger one? Should they ignore your advice, because guilting people into doing things is wrong?

I know you'll never admit this, but in this case, the UN was right - and after they said that we fixed the problem.

[Ron 7]

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Saving people's lives is a good use of our money.

Whose lives? Everyones? Don't you think that we have people in need here in the US? Don't you care about them? Or would you rather we have a 60% tax and just give out money to the world?

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If you want to cut something, cut the billions in Wal-Mart subsidies, or the subsidies for the US Country Music museum - at least until the crisis is over.

OK cool as long as you cut affermative action money, and the endowments to the arts. If you are gonna cut. Cut evenly and fairly.

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If you tell a new jumper that they aren't good enough to fly a tiny canopy, and are going to kill someone else with it, are you trying to guilt them into getting a bigger one? Should they ignore your advice, because guilting people into doing things is wrong?

They ignor eme anyway thena bunch of folks jump my shit for not minding my own business.

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I know you'll never admit this, but in this case, the UN was right - and after they said that we fixed the problem.

And you will never admit that the UN talks big but failed to deliver on Iraq.

Actually I did say that the UN was good at this kind of thing.

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1416462#1416462

Like I said the UN is good at spening others money. But they suck at enforcing their own rules, or running their own houses.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,473]

>Whose lives? Everyones? Don't you think that we have people in
>need here in the US? Don't you care about them?

Of course. And if a tsunami hits Seattle and kills 150,000 people, I'd be all for stopping aid to Thailand and sending it all to Seattle. But right now there is a much greater need in Indonesia than there is here.

>OK cool as long as you cut affermative action money, and the
>endowments to the arts. If you are gonna cut. Cut evenly and fairly.

Sure; during a time of massive debt you have to cut some things.

>They ignor eme anyway thena bunch of folks jump my shit for not
>minding my own business.

Do you believe you are wrong for criticizing other people's canopy choices?

>And you will never admit that the UN talks big but failed to deliver on Iraq.

We were talking about tsunami aid. There are plenty of other threads about Iraq if you want to bash the UN about that.

[Ron 7]

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Of course. And if a tsunami hits Seattle and kills 150,000 people, I'd be all for stopping aid to Thailand and sending it all to Seattle. But right now there is a much greater need in Indonesia than there is here.

So the talk of people dying here due to not having medical care is just talk? We have people dying int he US, people starving in the US. You would rather help others before your neighbors?

Now I am not saying that we should not help...we should, because we can. But I find it funny that you support helping them over helping ourselves.

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We were talking about tsunami aid. There are plenty of other threads about Iraq if you want to bash the UN about that.

We are atalking about the UN. The UN does great when the answer is to spend others money. But it lacks the strength to do what it says, and the integrity to not steal.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,153]

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So the talk of people dying here due to not having medical care is just talk? We have people dying int he US, people starving in the US. You would rather help others before your neighbors?

Now I am not saying that we should not help...we should, because we can. But I find it funny that you support helping them over helping ourselves.

What I find funny is that in another thread you are telling those same people to just get off their lazy ass and get a job.

[Ron 7]

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What I find funny is that in another thread you are telling those same people to just get off their lazy ass and get a job.

Well they should get off their lazy asses and get a job. I am willing to help when they need it, but I don't want to support them for life, or just hand over money to a bunch of lazy people just to be nice.

I have no problem helping, but I am not into supporting lazy people just cause I can.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Faber 0]

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I understand that it looks like we, the US, are doing a great deal, while others that critisize are doing so much "less." And it's annoying to see others say that we should give more....

calculating on how much mony pr citicen DK is one of the countryes that pays most and thats only from the state,the danes has collected alot on vulontair basis aswell.

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We should stop looking to the dollar as the bottom line.

the $IS low at this point,lucky for some of us

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[billvon 2,473]

>So the talk of people dying here due to not having medical care is just
> talk? We have people dying int he US, people starving in the US. You
> would rather help others before your neighbors?

Nope!

>Now I am not saying that we should not help...we should, because we can.
> But I find it funny that you support helping them over helping ourselves.

We should do both. Currently the need in Indonesia is much greater than the need here, so more money should go there. It's a matter of degree.

[dorbie 0]

International triage
Now I personally agree this is exceptional and we should help but since we're talking about spending priorities in related threads, this kind of situation should give everyone pause for thought.

The thing that really puzzles me is that there's absolutely no discussion of this in the media other than we're not giving enough, the presumption is we should do this without question and billions is on the table almost from the outset and nobody bats an eyelash. It would be a different matter if we had a ballanced budget and Powel had to stand up and announce some deep budget cuts to a few military bases here and a few hospitals there to pay billions in foreign aid, but it just comes out of this bottomless pit called the Federal deficit so it's all OK.

[jcd11235 0]

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Don't you think that we have people in need here in the US? Don't you care about them?

That's rich, Ron, considering you were the one (falsely) claiming that I refuse to work, and that if I am not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to obtain healthcare (quit school or change course of study to allow a work friendly schedule). You don't seem to think we need to help our own.

BTW, I readily admit that I am nowhwere near the most needy in this country, but I have not seen you show compassion for anyone, foreign or domestic, with the exception of Shrub and his cronies.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[dorbie 0]

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Don't you think that we have people in need here in the US? Don't you care about them?

That's rich, Ron, considering you were the one (falsely) claiming that I refuse to work, and that if I am not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to obtain healthcare (quit school or change course of study to allow a work friendly schedule). You don't seem to think we need to help our own.

BTW, I readily admit that I am nowhwere near the most needy in this country, but I have not seen you show compassion for anyone, foreign or domestic, with the exception of Shrub and his cronies.

Call it tough love.

He sees your road paved with good intentions that would lead us all to ruins. That's as compassionate as it gets I think.

[Ron 7]

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That's rich, Ron, considering you were the one (falsely) claiming that I refuse to work, and that if I am not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to obtain healthcare (quit school or change course of study to allow a work friendly schedule). You don't seem to think we need to help our own.

You have said you are unwilling to work. Except you candy coat it and blame it on others.

Why should I help you to go to school? I'd help keep you from starving if you were trying to work. but if you choose to blow off work in favor of studying, why should I pay to support you? You are not my child, I don't have to send you to school.

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BTW, I readily admit that I am nowhwere near the most needy in this country, but I have not seen you show compassion for anyone, foreign or domestic, with the exception of Shrub and his cronies.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=913544#913544

Just becasue you don't see it does not mean it does not happen.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jcd11235 0]

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Just becasue you don't see it does not mean it does not happen.

I stand corrected, Ron. You have in fact contributed a compassionate post within the last year.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 2,473]

>The thing that really puzzles me is that there's absolutely no discussion
>of this in the media other than we're not giving enough . . .

Why? That's just compassion, which is a basic human emotion. There is a surely a time to talk about limiting foreign aid. But that time is when we're funding people like Saddam Hussein, not when we're trying to save a million people from disease and death in the aftermath of the worst natural disaster of the century.