Tsunami aid - US provides $35m, Japan $30m, UK $29m - France $136,000!?!?

[billvon 2,427]

>We have people dying int he US, people starving in the US. You
>would rather help others before your neighbors?

To follow up on this -

Hurricane Charley destroyed a lot of property and killed 20 people. Between FEMA and direct aid we spent over $4 billion in taxpayer money to help Florida recover. The tsunami has killed around 150,000 and estimates are that another 100,000 will die from pathogens from rotting corpses and contaminated water supplies. We pledged $350 million.

And you're claiming we place foreigners over US citizens? It's pretty clear we care about both, but it's also clear we are a lot more concerned about US citizens than about foreigners. And there's nothing wrong with that, as long as we help out where we can and when we can.

[mikkey 0]

Just to add some facts to this thread, the following are the updated numbers from the BBC:

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Japan
$500m (£264m) in government donations, 120 civilian emergency workers sent to tsunami-hit countries.

USA
$350m in government donations, plus military assistance involving 12,600 personnel, 21 ships, 14 cargo planes and 48 helicopters. Private donations are also pouring in, with $120m donated to the US branches of the Red Cross, Oxfam and Save the Children, and to Catholic Relief Services.

World Bank
$250m diverted from existing programmes to cover emergency needs while longer-term reconstruction needs are assessed.

Norway
$182m in government donations, plus $30m raised in private donations.

Asian Development Bank
$175m has been diverted from existing programmes in Indonesia, Sri Lanka and the Maldives. The bank says up to $150m more could be made available in new loans.

FROM THE WORLD'S POOREST
Russian town of Beslan - scene of a bloody school siege last year - pledged 1m roubles ($36,000) from the fund set up after the mass hostage-taking
Mozambique - one of the world's poorest nations - has donated $100,000
Nepal and East Timor have also pledged donations

Britain
$96m in government donations, plus $146m in private donations which the government has pledged to match. Two RAF planes, a C-17 and a Tristar, are helping to deliver aid to the region. Chancellor Gordon Brown is pushing a proposal for the debts of the affected nations to be frozen.

Italy
$95m in government aid. Six to eight police forensics specialists have been sent to Thailand to help to identify bodies. Public donations totalling $20m had been collected by New Year's Day.

Sweden
$80m in government donations, plus $60m in private donations including money raised during two telethons.

Denmark
$75m in government aid. Copenhagen has sent a field hospital, transport vehicles and a ship to the UN aid effort, Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen has said.

Spain
$68m in government donations, and a medical team has been sent to Sri Lanka.

France
$66m in government donations, plus an estimated $49m raised in private donations. A medical team has been sent to Sri Lanka.

Canada
$66m in government donations, plus at least $29m raised in private donations with a government commitment to match every dollar donated by the public. Ottawa has already placed a moratorium on debt from the affected countries. It is also deploying its highly-specialised Disaster Assistance Response Team to Sri Lanka.

China
$60m in government donations, plus $1.8m donated to the Chinese Red Cross.

South Korea
$50m in government aid. The prime minister's office said the funds would be spend for rehabilitation of the devastated areas over the next three years. Private donations have reached nearly $13m, the South Korean foreign ministry says.

Australia
$46m has been donated in government aid, and donations from the public total $58m. About 350 military staff, four military helicopters, a troop transport ship, a military health support team and a water purification plant are being sent to Indonesia, as well as a team of volunteer medical professionals.

Netherlands
$34m has been donated by the government and aid groups say a further $35m has been raised in private donations. A Dutch police identification team has been sent to Thailand.

European Union
$31m in aid, although EU External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner has said this may be increased by tens of millions of euros.

Germany
$27m in government aid. Berlin is planning to increase this to $680m, according to a government source. Germany is also sending a mobile hospital to Aceh and a military ship with two helicopters, aid supplies, water treatment equipment and an operating theatre on board. The public have donated an estimated $130m.

Qatar
$25m in government aid. Qatar is also sending food, medical and logistical supplies to affected countries.

Countries in the region

India
The Indian military is staging its biggest relief operation ever in Sri Lanka, the Maldives and Indonesia. This involves at least 16,000 troops, 32 navy ships, 41 aircraft including at least 16 helicopters, several medical teams and a mobile hospital. The air force has so far lifted 10,000 tonnes of relief supplies.

Bangladesh
Bangladesh has dispatched 111 soldiers to Sri Lanka and the Maldives, with a further 46 expected to join them. Two planes and two helicopters will carry the troops together with aid supplies.

Pakistan
Pakistan plans to send 500 military staff in medical and engineering teams to Indonesia and Sri Lanka.

As you can see this is a global effort and there is no need for a pissing contest. Watching some of the US media via my cable TV there seems that certain elements in the US are running this "we do more then anybody else - we are the most compassionate country in the world" stuff. In $ terms the US effort is vital and very good, but measured relative to size of economy and number of citizens it is average - but still great. The most vital contribution the US is making - and I mentioned that before - is to apply the strong logistics capabilities of the miiltary - that help is priceless.

So I think most of the industrialised worlds governments and their citizens really deserve a pad on the back for the way everybody has stepped up for this task. I find this the one positive thing happening out of the whole tragedy. Let us just hope everybody is in it for the long haul to help the survivors.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[PhillyKev 0]

And to add to that, the congressional session just started and they are discussing multiplying that 350 million several times over.

[jcd11235 0]

I like Brittain's idea of government matching private contributions.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[bodypilot90 0]

where is all the oil rich arab nations. What I have seen it's piss poor.

[billvon 2,427]

>where is all the oil rich arab nations. What I have seen it's piss poor.

Exactly! I haven't seen Iraq contribute a dime, and they have one of the largest oil reserves in the world! Ungrateful sloths.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Exactly! I haven't seen Iraq contribute a dime, and they have one of the largest oil reserves in the world! Ungrateful sloths.

The Un, Germany, france and Russia has all their money from kickbacks in the oil for food scam. So you have to credit half of there donations as Iraqs.

[billvon 2,427]

>The Un, Germany, france and Russia has all their money from
>kickbacks in the oil for food scam. So you have to credit half of
>there donations as Iraqs.

True. Do we get to count all the Halliburton fines and judgements for Iraq as well? That would put them into the top 10!

[Ron 7]

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And you're claiming we place foreigners over US citizens?

No I asked you a question on who you thought who the US should help more, US citizens or other countries citizens.

And if you thought that we should spend more to help the victums over there, and neglect our people here if you can't do both.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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I stand corrected, Ron. You have in fact contributed a compassionate post within the last year.

For the record I work with the United Way, March of Dimes and the American Diabetes Associaton all year. These are organizations that do good work helping those that through no fault of their own need help.

I don't feel the need to brag about good things I have done. I don't need to have anyone approve of my deeds.

You never answered why I should be willing to support you while you go to school.

I help those that try to help themselves, or that really can't. Someone blowing off work so they can go to school and expecting me to support them does not qualify.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mr2mk1g 10]

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The Un, Germany, france and Russia has all their money from kickbacks in the oil for food scam. So you have to credit half of there donations as Iraqs.

hehe, once again, remember - so does the US... only the CIA removed the companies names from the list before you got to see it so you don't know exactly who was involved.

[Ripple 0]

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For the record I work with the United Way, March of Dimes and the American Diabetes Associaton all year. These are organizations that do good work helping those that through no fault of their own need help.

I don't feel the need to brag about good things I have done.

You just did.

Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes

[Ron 7]

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You just did

When defending myself from baseless accusations.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[wmw999 2,146]

I think anyone who didn't reply (accurately, as you did) under the circumstances would deserve a thread about his self-effacing nature.

Ron, we disagree on many political things, not on safety things, but, well, I think I'm safe saying that you're just not that self-effacing . I'd've done exactly the same thing, and I'm pretty quiet.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Ripple 0]

Oh c'mon. Ron is telling everyone about his good works in what appears to be a pretty blatant attempt to discredit the notion that he's arrogant, self-obsessed and narrow-minded, and then as he goes on immediately after to disclaim it, it loses all credibility.

All of Ron's posts, that I've read, show the aforementioned notion to be completely accurate. The sad thing is, any useful, pertinent information or advice he offers is probably lost to those that it would benefit the most because of his attitude that screams 'tosser'.

If Ron would reply to posts in the mature, sensible, intelligent way that he must display in the work he does with the organisations he mentioned, I'm sure everyone would benefit as much as he appears to want them to.

Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes

[Ron 7]

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Oh c'mon. Ron is telling everyone about his good works in what appears to be a pretty blatant attempt to discredit the notion that he's arrogant, self-obsessed and narrow-minded, and then as he goes on immediately after to disclaim it, it loses all credibility.

All of Ron's posts, that I've read, show the aforementioned notion to be completely accurate***

Some people say the same about people who make personal attacks. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1155892#1155892

And I only pointed out what things I do when someone made a baseless accusation.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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[Ripple 0]

Sure, it was a personal attack. I shouldn't have shown my feelings about you.

I'll miss reading the arguments on here.

Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes

[Ron 7]

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Sure, it was a personal attack. I shouldn't have shown my feelings about you.

What I find funny is how you think you know someone and make judgements about them without knowing them.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ripple 0]

I'm sure you, as everyone, does that too, its human nature after all.

I can only judge you from what you write and how others respond to you. From that I gather that you're pretty hot on safety stuff, you do admirable works for charity and you come across as unreasonable and extremely aggressive at times which, I should imagine, unfortunately means the good stuff is lost to many.

An opinion I have of you, which, of course, is largely irrelevant.

Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes

[rehmwa 2]

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I like Britain's idea of government matching private contributions.

I think the length of your posts is inversely related to how much I agree with you. Matching private contributions is a great idea if you really believe in the kindness and generosity of people. I didn't expect that from someone who so strongly leans towards socialistic theories. My bad.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jcd11235 0]

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You never answered why I should be willing to support you while you go to school.

I help those that try to help themselves, or that really can't. Someone blowing off work so they can go to school and expecting me to support them does not qualify.

You seem to have answered your own question Ron, unless you figure people just go to school for shits and giggles. They are helping themselves.

Besides, no one asked you to support me.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Ron 7]

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You seem to have answered your own question Ron, unless you figure people just go to school for shits and giggles. They are helping themselves.

Im going to school for shits, grins, and giggles. The military is paying for it, so I am going.

And I still don't see why I should support you while you don't work and go to school.

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Besides, no one asked you to support me.

Yes, you have...You complained about not being able to get unemployment.

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And while I go to school, I am ineligible for unemployment benefits because I am not available to work any hours 24/7.

And then you complained about not having health coverage. And then said:

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I cannot think of a single good reason why citizens of the richest nation on earth should have to choose between an education and healthcare.

So if you don't want to work, and want health coverage, and unemployment....Who would pay for it?

Answer guys like me with jobs.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

Asking the federal government to support you (in your note implied health care) is just another way of asking those individuals who pay federal taxes to support you.

I assume Ron pays taxes.

To be fair, you didn't specifically ask the government to pay for your healthcare, it was more like ~~"I can't believe that this country doesn't provide health care" - but you can see the inference.

Edit: so Ron replied first apparently. I'm going back to my sammich

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ron 7]

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Edit: so Ron replied first apparently. I'm going back to my sammich

I typed with one hand while I ate my sammich

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[bodypilot90 0]

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Asking the federal government to support you (in your note implied health care) is just another way of asking those individuals who pay federal taxes to support you.

exactly my thoughts.