Tsunami aid - US provides $35m, Japan $30m, UK $29m - France $136,000!?!?

[jcd11235 0]

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In the economy? We seem to have enough people on the left trying to undermine any confidence that might exist. Economic growth has been very healthy for a prolonged period.

Combined with the overall net job loss of this president, that indicates the rich are getting richer even faster.

That that fail to study history are doomed to repeat it.

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[dorbie 0]

There you go again undermining the confidence you're complaining Bush isn't supplying.

If a lack of confidence is a problem as you claim then why contribute to the problem?

[jcd11235 0]

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If a lack of confidence is a problem as you claim then why contribute to the problem?

That is one of many problems. The underlying one is the man himself. I realize you disagree with that, but it is my perception based on four years of observation of his policies and practices. I do not feel that way about the Republican Party in general, even though I generally disagree with Republican views.

I wasn't proud to call Clinton the President of my country, but I am completely ashamed that we have bestowed that title upon Shrub.

I hardly feel that I can silently let him work his mischief.

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[dorbie 0]

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If a lack of confidence is a problem as you claim then why contribute to the problem?

That is one of many problems. The underlying one is the man himself. I realize you disagree with that, but it is my perception based on four years of observation of his policies and practices. I do not feel that way about the Republican Party in general, even though I generally disagree with Republican views.

I wasn't proud to call Clinton the President of my country, but I am completely ashamed that we have bestowed that title upon Shrub.

I hardly feel that I can silently let him work his mischief.

That's OK you didn't bestow it, but there's an interesting paradox here.

You make an accusation that Bush doesn't invoke confidence in the economy yet a post later you undermine it. At every opportunity since Bush got in office the public statements of the party and candidates you've supported have done as much as they can to undermine that economy.

The jobs record really comes down to when you sample as everyone knows. We had a depression and a terrorist attack in the period immediately preceeding and following Bush taking office. This is obvious yet you expect the accusation of poor performance to stick. I don't blame Clinton entirely for the boom bust he presided over nor give Bush undue credit for the climb out of depression, but every time recent economic growth is mentioned the left delights in highlighting the negative when clearly that doesn't reflect recent performance and not just a quarter or two but a solid couple of years of encouraging results that are consistently ignored.

The economy is climbing but it's climbing from a low point, just like employment figures.

[ladyskydiver 0]

Interesting...I worked full-time and went to school part time so that I could pay my own way. You are trying to tell me that you can do nothing but go to school? I call B.S. There are quite a few people on DZ.com that work full-time and go to school part-time....sometimes even two full-time jobs and go to school part-time.

So...don't try and BS me or anyone else on this board that you can not work and have to be a full-time student.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[jcd11235 0]

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The jobs record really comes down to when you sample as everyone knows. We had a depression and a terrorist attack in the period immediately preceeding and following Bush taking office. This is obvious yet you expect the accusation of poor performance to stick.

Bush has exploited 9/11 for its fear producing factors since day one, and has not ever fully cooperated in an independent investigation. There are many questions left unasked. I am not accusing the man of impropriety, but I do not feel they are unfair questions. I understand why he would not want to answer over and over again, but once would be nice.

From an objective perspective, the attacks on WTC were a 60% spike in the national daily death poll. Why is the president so eager to go to war to avenge it, to the extent of repeatedly lying to the public about Iraq'a connections with the September 11 attacks. But, is quite reluctant to answer questions concerning the attack, and why SOP was not followed with respect to NORAD.

I don't like that this is a behind closed doors adminastration. We are not about secret governments here in America.

I don't like that both major parties have failed to seriously investigate election improprieties. I would be just as pissed off and vocal about them if the resulting error was one sided in the other direction. If its not fixed, sooner or later it will go the other direction, and the just a different half, largely, will cry out.

I don't like the reaching authority given by the PATRIOT Act. I do not think there is a price for even small civil liberties. "They that would give up essential liberties in order to obtain some temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety," according to Ben Franklin.

I do not like that Shrub and his enterage have demonstrators hidden from view or arrested in order to avoid any negative press. Perhaps he should instead consider things from the perspective of the demonstrators, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.

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but a solid couple of years of encouraging results that are consistently ignored.

I must have missed those two years. They weren't 2001, 2002, 2003, or 2004, so when were they? Let me know when there are jobs available like in the Clinton years, because that is a MUCH more reliable indicator than Shrub's empty claims. So far all I see is deficit spending, and that is not good for an economy, at least not when it is used to pay for a war that has been lied about since day 1 and before.

I mean, I like to look on the bright side, but Shrub ain't exactly a ray of sunshine.

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[craddock 0]

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I've heard its easiest to find a job when you're sick.

Wake up dude. Smart men will save when there healthy to pay for the unexpected. Even if you don't the docter will let you make payments.

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No, public transportation is available

Mabey for you. That is not always the case. It was not in my case.

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I am not afraid of work by any stretch of the imagination, but the fact of the matter remains that work is sometimes not the most productive use of ones time.

My Ex. worked 20 hours a week as an Undergrad with a double in Math/Physics. She worked at the school doing research as an undergrad. I think that was a rather productive use of Her time, so sometines it can be. Of course not everyone is that lucky, but the point is she managed to work 20 hours a week and still graduate at the top of her class. She never complained about work and she managed to recieve a full RA/TA at MSU (Tuition, Health Ins., Salary) to do her Graduate work in Nuclear Astrophysics.

Quit you bitchen and get a job or borrow the money for your medical bills and pay it back later when you making you "living wage".

We all have to make sacrifices, some of us are just able to accept them.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[jcd11235 0]

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Interesting...I worked full-time and went to school part time so that I could pay my own way. You are trying to tell me that you can do nothing but go to school? I call B.S. There are quite a few people on DZ.com that work full-time and go to school part-time....sometimes even two full-time jobs and go to school part-time.

So...don't try and BS me or anyone else on this board that you can not work and have to be a full-time student.

If you followed the whole post you would know that I said that sometimes a school schedule is not compatible with the hours necessary to keep the job. I was let go for that very reason from my last job. When I have the oppurtunity to work, I work. I cannot, however, go to school without significant loans, even trying to go part time, and as such am trying to get through in as few years as possible, which also reduces my time available to work. I admire that you are able to work full time and go to school part time. That is a more expensive route in my situationin both time and money. Unfortunately, one size does not fit all.

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[bodypilot90 0]

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The low cost is relative to the cost of necessary treatment if the problem escalates to the point where it requires emergency attention, which is very costly. The cost is not so low when compared to the income of anun/under employed student. For the price of a doctor's visit I can eat well for a month. A month's worth of food money gone from my budget is not so easily overcome.

You chose to go to school instead of finding a job with health car. You were in the service and didn't learn a skill? You should take responsibility and not as me to pay for your health care.

[jcd11235 0]

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Quit you bitchen and get a job or borrow the money for your medical bills and pay it back later when you making you "living wage".

I'll answer this first. I ain't bitchin. I've been painted that way by you and others, but that doesn't make it true. Any suggestion I have made would not be implemented in time to benefit me. I am pointing out a significant shortcoming in the system, and suggesting that it be fixed for the sake of posterity, even if the transition does burden me a little bit.

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My Ex. worked 20 hours a week as an Undergrad with a double in Math/Physics. She worked at the school doing research as an undergrad. I think that was a rather productive use of Her time, so sometines it can be. Of course not everyone is that lucky, but the point is she managed to work 20 hours a week and still graduate at the top of her class. She never complained about work and she managed to recieve a full RA/TA at MSU (Tuition, Health Ins., Salary) to do her Graduate work in Nuclear Astrophysics.

That is an oppurtunity to be envious of, but not a realistic expectation at a community college. Also, fewer sections of each class are available, so there is less flexibility in schedule. I have my degree from this school, but I can't transfer anywhere until I pick up the rest of my math, so I am stuck with this school's schedule.

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Wake up dude. Smart men will save when there healthy to pay for the unexpected. Even if you don't the docter will let you make payments.

Wake up dude. Smart men would not settle for such a terribly inefficient system.

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[dorbie 0]

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From an objective perspective, the attacks on WTC were a 60% spike in the national daily death poll. Why is the president so eager to go to war to avenge it,

It's a lot more than that, it was state supported mass murder of US citizens (and others) on an unprecedented scale and had a seriously negative effect on the economy. It was also merely the first attack of an intended campaign (in fact not the first but the first on US soil) as the planners themselves proclaimed. I don't think you'll find a candidate for president who would even take your question seriously never mind not have gone to war over this. If it was a Democrat in power they would have gone to war at least with Afghanistan (and Kerry claimed Iraq too and you value his integrity) yet you wouldn't be asking that question, illustrating that your perspective has nothing to do with objectivity.

[jcd11235 0]

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You chose to go to school instead of finding a job with health car. You were in the service and didn't learn a skill? You should take responsibility and not as me to pay for your health care.

There's not much call for combat arms outside the military. I could probably find a civilian job killing people, blowing shit up and setting things on fire, but I would like to think I've grown a little bit emotionally.

I am taking responsibility. I am putting myself through school. I didn't ask you for shit. I pointed out it was a terribly inefficient, illogical system when viewed objectively. For that many have implied that I am lazy for going to school. It boggles the mind how dense such a large portion of the population is.

I know, what if we make it easier to get an education...

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[bodypilot90 0]

Maybe you need to change your area of study, become a teacher, nurse or a welder, mechanic all high skill, good paying jobs with benefits

[jcd11235 0]

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and Kerry claimed Iraq too and you value his integrity

I really wish you would stop putting words in my mouth. Show me a post where I put Kerry in a positive light.

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I don't think you'll find a candidate for president who would even take your question seriously

That is what is so appalling. It is afair question, and there are other fair questions that have been completely avoided. It is a sad day when our government becomes so secretive fair questions cannot be raised and answered with candid answers.

As for party allegience, I have none. My philosophy is that the number one priority is to remove the Republicans from power. The number two priority (a very, very close second) is too make sure the Democrats don't seize it in the ensuing vacuum.

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[jcd11235 0]

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Maybe you need to change your area of study, become a teacher,

Uh, yeah, I think I already said that's what I was doing, planning to teach.

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[craddock 0]

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For that many have implied that I am lazy for going to school.

I must have missed that implication. But I'm to lazy to go back and look.

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I pointed out it was a terribly inefficient, illogical system when viewed objectively

Objectively!! The funniest part about that comment is that you actually believe what your saying. LOL

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[bodypilot90 0]

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There's not much call for combat arms outside the military. I could probably find a civilian job killing people, blowing shit up and setting things on fire, but I would like to think I've grown a little bit emotionally.

well you could go overseas as a contractor make enough money to pay cash for your schooling. I have a link. I am sure there some openings in Iraq or other places. I have a web link. They even provide housing and health care free.

I don't think you are lazy just looking at your problem from the right way.

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It boggles the mind how dense such a large portion of the population is.

yes by failing to take personal rresponsibility and asking others to make their life easy.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Uh, yeah, I think I already said that's what I was doing, planning to teach.

then why all the high level courses?

[ladyskydiver 0]

So then it takes you a little longer to get your degree by having to flex your time. And as far as loans go, there are, also, grants, scholarships, etc. Loans are not the only way to go. Plus getting a student loan, your payment can be deferred until 6 months after you graduate.

Yes, it will take you longer to graduate by flexing your time, but saying that you can not get a job that has some flexibility in it....doubtful. Or that you can not flex your school schedule and take classes at night/weekend/etc...doubtful.

I'm glad to see you're going to school and trying to get a degree. However, trying to say that as a result most of the time you can not work...there are ways to do so if you want to.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[dorbie 0]

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I don't think you'll find a candidate for president who would even take your question seriously

That is what is so appalling. It is afair question

It would be apalling if we had one. In all seriousness it's a derranged question that must mischaracterize the event in the asking. It doesn't even require asking it only needs some intelligent ponderance of the circumstances and consequences to see this. It's not someone else's responsibility to explain perfectly obvious and comprehensible actions to you.

Fortunately you're in a tiny and extreme minority.

Yep no party affiliation there, if only the Democrats would take an even more radical shift to the left, you'd have a party you could comfortably get to the left of, sigh.

[jcd11235 0]

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I don't think you are lazy just looking at your problem from the right way.

The Buddha said that which does not seem paradoxical is not true, which tells me the there is as much truth in your argument as there is in mine. There are two sides to each story, and our perspective dictates which is perceived to be correct.

You're right, in the short term, a system as I propose would be costly, and much of that tax burden would be burdened by people who would largely not benefit.

I am trying to see it from a larger perspective, after say 50 years, when the vast majority of those carrying the burden will have already benefited from it.

Who would benefit? Parents who intend to bend over backwards to offer their children the oppurtunity to go to school. Our children would benefit by being guaranteed the oppurtunity to further their education past high school, which no longer offers reasonable expectations to qualify one for a job allowing to live above the poverty level.

Liberty is nothing without education. We cannot keep up the status quo much longer before something gives. If change is inevitable, why not make it as productive as possible?
Think of those that we are sticking with a national debt of over $7,600,000,000,000. I think it is a fair and just trade-off. If we expect them to pay our way now, we should at least set them up to get an education, don't you think?

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[jcd11235 0]

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as a result most of the time you can not work

I said some of the time.

If half the people who reponded on this thread paid attention to all the posts, it would be much more productive.

Jobs were not a dime a dozen when I went back to school, and I have little in the way of non-skydiver, non-school related local references. And in a slow economy the job goes to the local, not the student from out of state. Especially when the locals schedule is more open. Getting a job just because you want one has not ever been a reality in any part of Florida I have ever lived. Who knows, maybe it's completely different fifty miles down the road.

Additionally, since it took me so long (11 years) to figure out that school was my best choice, combined that I need advanced degrees to work in the area I want to work in, going to school part time is really not an option, as it would take an extra 6-10 years, which, in the long run, significantly raises the cost of the education. Trust me, I have examined the problem from all angles.

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[jcd11235 0]

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then why all the high level courses?

I want to teach high level classes. We need those teachers, too.

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[dorbie 0]

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, why not make it as productive as possible?

The intent is exactly that, it's called incentive by allowing people to keep their earnings instead of taking it away and giving it to someone else's kid for their education. Many people want to go to college, who decides who gets to go when the government takes the money from everyone and gives it to the student. Should I pay for my neighbours kid's education while the government says my child doesn't qualify to go? I mean after paying for their kid in addition to the existing tax burden I probably won't be able to pay private tuition.

You talk as if money paid to you doesn't come from someone else and possibly their kid's education, it does, even once your system is up and running. You're only talking about boot strapping the dependency so everyone thinks they owe the government for their education when they don't have to owe anyone now and they'd be paying for it now anyway.

Why would I bother with a career at all if I can't reap a benefit like educating my kids. Where's the incentive to be productive in your society. I'm not saying there is none but you've erroded it, enough of those errosions and you're in trouble.

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Think of those that we are sticking with a national debt of over $7,600,000,000,000. I think it is a fair and just trade-off. If we expect them to pay our way now, we should at least set them up to get an education, don't you think?

And having the government pay for everyone's college education is going to help ballance the budget how? I've already illustrated how it removes incentive. The deficit would grow to pay for it and of course taxes would grow leaving the economy suppressed. There's probably be fewer college places ultimately because you're taking money out of the system to get this going.

[jcd11235 0]

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In all seriousness it's a derranged question that must mischaracterize the event in the asking.

I fail to see how to ask why we did not implement plans already in place to deal with just such a situation, is derranged. All the indicators were there. We already had a plan. Why wasn't it followed? It had been implemented before, in other scenarios (Remember Payne Stewarts jet?), why was it not implemented this time? Why is the President afraid of an independeant investigation into the event?

Either Shrub knew about the attacks, and didn't do anything to stop them, or the Executive Branch of the Federal government failed miserably that dreadful day. Why did NORAD stand down?

Is he criminally neglegent, or just incompetant?

And, so you know, it is a Republican making the most serious allegations, and he is making them in a Court of Law.

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