Male perspectives on abortion?

[Deuce 1]

It should be discussed before having sex.

"You're on the pill, and I'm wearing a condom, but what's going to happen if you get pregnant?"

-You're going to marry me/live with me and we will raise the child together.

-I want to have sex with you, not marry you, but you'll be responsible for supporting the child.

-You'll never know about it. I'll raise the child and not even give it your name

-I'll put the child up for adoption or have a relative raise it or give it to you to raise without any support from me.

-I'll abort it.

It's a conversation that kind of kills the mood, eh? I have a conviction that people should know things like this about each other before having sex.

[peregrinerose 0]

I'm completely with Paj on the abortion stance (Paj, how often do we actually agree??). Actually, the more I think about it, the more I agree with the whole post, my initial instinct was that the guy should be able to have a say. But I think Paj has me convinced otherwise.

Ethically, a woman should be able to discuss this with the guy, after all, if they are close enough to have sex, theoretically they should be close enough to have this kind of discussion to make the choice that sits best in their minds. Legally, the woman really should be the final determining factor since she is the one that has to carry the child for 9 months. I can't fathom someone being legally obligated to be pregnant if she with all her being wants an abortion.

I do know that if I was pregnant and wanted an abortion and my husband did not, he would respect my decision and support me every step of the way. But I also know that our relationship would be seriously negatively affected and probably cause a huge rift between us.

Back to my disclaimer that I'm against abortion to begin with.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Tink1717 2]

I think you misunderstand what I meant. Men not getting to vote on what women do with their bodies is a good thing. It places the control where it should be: with the woman.

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Men are not just sperm donors - as women are not just egg donors.

Men are exactly that: sperm donors. Even the most attentive and caring father has his role end immediately after the orgasm. Women, on the other hand, have to deal with the results in ways that men cannot even begin to understand. Therefore, all the control must be vested with the woman.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[lawrocket 3]

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few weeks ago I was walking right past, looked at the younger guy and asked, "How many kids have you adopted." He wouldn't answer me but instead started reciting a prayer. I walked away.

Kev just hit on a great solution to a big part of this problem. Loosen adoption laws, and make some governmental policy encouraging adoption. Gays, too.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[HeatherB 0]

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Ultimately, we need to say and show that men/boys do have a say - before sex. And that's not to be trivialized or taken lightly. Because after sex - he's quite literally screwed.

Right - the guy has a say regarding whether or not he wants to have sex with someone who will have an abortion, will not have an abortion, will expect child support, etc.

Ideally it would be talked about beforehand...but I really doubt that many one-night-stands are preceded with a conversation about abortions. Hopefully in the case of boyfriend/girlfriend relationships it has been discussed.

I think it's completely unfair that a guy has no say if a woman wants to have an abortion and he does not want her to have one. The guy could be willing to be a father, but he has no rights and cannot do anything if the woman decides to abort the baby, since it's "her body."

That just sucks. Glad I'll never be in that situation...

[wmw999 2,171]

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Glad I'll never be in that situation...

Unless you're sterile or celibate, you can't know. Birth control can fail, even supposedly-reliable birth control. Then you still have the decision to make, when you thought you were doing everything you could to ensure no pregnancy.

It doesn't happen as often as some people would like to think (missing your pill regularly removes it from the "birth control column; etc), but it does happen.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[HeatherB 0]

I should have clarified:

Glad I'll never be in that situation on the male-side of things. (I don't think there's any danger of me suddenly becoming male)

And also glad I'll never be in that situation because I'd never have an abortion. For me, there is no decision to make.

[rehmwa 2]

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Even the most attentive and caring father has his role end immediately after the orgasm.

Thank goodness for that. I didn't want to pick my daughter up after work anyway. I think I'll go climbing and then stay out late with my friends.

And the college fund. I can take all that back. Her mom can set one up from her own income.

For that matter, why doesn't the female of the species just eat the male for strength following copulation? And not eat in the good way either - eat in the 'Nice Chianti' way. It would really clarify things nicely.

Again another post confusing the definition of rights with what's the right thing to do regardless of the written laws on the books.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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Even the most attentive and caring father has his role end immediately after the orgasm.

Then why do the women get mad if the man has the orgasm, wipes off on the curtains and then goes home without another word?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[peregrinerose 0]

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Kev just hit on a great solution to a big part of this problem. Loosen adoption laws, and make some governmental policy encouraging adoption. Gays, too.

The problem isn't with adoption. The waiting list for infants to adopt is literally years long (assuming we are discussing US infants). This is why so many couples adopt from overseas, rather than wait.

Conversely, the list of kids over the age of 3 that need to be adopted and probably never will is truly heartwrenching. Check out www.adoptpakids.org So many kids need homes that are not available. Chad and I discussed this long before we were married, that we both want to adopt a few of these kids. Undecided about having one of our own or not.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[rehmwa 2]

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Even the most attentive and caring father has his role end immediately after the orgasm.

Don't forget the eating the sandwich she makes for him after the orgasm, and falling asleep right away.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,171]

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Then why do the women get mad if the man has the orgasm, wipes off on the curtains and then goes home without another word?

That was a great answer!

The man's role CAN end after orgasm. Anything after that is optional, or court-ordered. But to say it does end is wrong.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[happythoughts 0]

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Ethically, a woman should be able to discuss this with the guy, after all, if they are close enough to have sex

There is some cases out there right now where the woman just wanted a sperm donor and agreed that the guy would have no further obligation. Then, after a couple of years, got child support because the agreement wasn't in writing.

Btw, even if they have it in writing, it doesn't matter. The courts have ruled that the mother has no right to sign away her childs right to support.

[EricTheRed 0]

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It should be discussed before having sex.

"You're on the pill, and I'm wearing a condom, but what's going to happen if you get pregnant?"

-You're going to marry me/live with me and we will raise the child together.

-I want to have sex with you, not marry you, but you'll be responsible for supporting the child.

-You'll never know about it. I'll raise the child and not even give it your name

-I'll put the child up for adoption or have a relative raise it or give it to you to raise without any support from me.

-I'll abort it.

It's a conversation that kind of kills the mood, eh? I have a conviction that people should know things like this about each other before having sex.

ECHO

There should also be a discussion about STD's and position preferences in an ideal world.

illegible usually

[turtlespeed 212]

I never had a problem thinking that abortion was "Okay" for just casual sex quick fixxes.

That was then -

Then I was put in a position, I had to confront that belief, I had to say"yes or no" - and I eneded up having no choice - not legally or otherwise - My choice was "no". That didn't matter. . . and the court even made me fucking pay for it.

Abortion is an abomination. Yes it is useful in very rare cases.

However, It is murder - and that woman and the court system murdered my child!

Any Questions?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SkyDekker 1,153]

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Men: Do you feel that you should have any rights concerning whether or not a female partner has an abortion? (specifically, if you do not want your partner to have an abortion and she does want to have one)

Woman has the final say.

Hopefully before you have sex with a woman, you have built a relationship strong enough that this issue has been discussed.

If not, that would be the risk of having sex.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Any Questions?

Yeah, who was responsible for birth control?

[freeflybella 0]

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I think you misunderstand what I meant. Men not getting to vote on what women do with their bodies is a good thing. It places the control where it should be: with the woman.

No, I understood what you meant. What I meant was that it takes 2 to make a child - and it should take 2 to decide what the result is, especially if the woman is not legally held to anything and the man is.

I clarified later by saying that the man's most important decisions currently come before having sex.

I think it sucks that men have less say after the fact but agree that it should be that way. But I don't agree that if a man doesn't want to raise a child, he should be forced to pay. Maybe there are some legal subtleties that I don't understand - but as Happythoughts wrote, a woman and man can't even draw up a 'pre-sex' agreement that absolves him of any responsibility should she later change her mind.

To call men sperm donors not only trivializes their role in reproduction, it undervalues men as parents. We need more responsible men and fathers - not less.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Zenister 0]

far to many ignorant attitudes and opinions floating around this issue..which is why the strict legal definition of 'human' needs to be addressed, before it is used to hold pregnant women hostage....

again... WTF would anyone want to tie their lives and the life of their child to someone who doesn’t want a child and doesn’t want it with you if she did?? (ie has decided to abort the pregnancy)

what makes any male thinks the few min of pleasure and tea spoon of genetic material gives him the right to demand a woman dedicate 9 months of her body (and a significant portion of her life) to raising his children because birth control failed (or was never taken)??

Men that start crying about 'their rights' and the 'rights of their child' (which still doesnt exist as human (no legal status) and will never develop into a human without the woman's consent to host) make me sick, pathetic whiners clinging to something that they did little for.... it is not as if they did anything great, or difficult, expended any real time, effort or energy and yet they are demanding that the woman become a slave to the male’s desire for children?? sad.

You want a child? Find a women who wants a child with you! Don’t rant because your one night stand had unintended consequences and suddenly you decide would be cool to be a father....... guess what? You don’t get to make that choice as a single male... [python][I]you haven’t got a place for the fetus to gestate[/I][/python] only as a member of a unit do you have any input at all, and the woman still has the sole decision making authority…

some male’s attitudes on this issue make it obvious they wish women were still considered property, completely subject to the desires of the male. Often it seems to be the ones who are also angry that clubbing them over the head and dragging them back to the cave isn’t an acceptable courting ritual….,,

next we'll see advocates for a 'pregnancy prison' to house women while the state forces them to bear children against their own wishes.... i suppose it would have to include all sort of enforced diets (cant have my unborn child eating non-kosher!) and exercise programs too, no skydiving, running, anything that might potential endanger your 'investment'.... after all your wishes come before what any 'mere woman' desires to do with her own body....

you can not murder that which was never alive on its own, could never live on its own, without the environment and consent of the host it is simply dying tissue, nothing more....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[PhillyKev 0]

See, I'm kind of odd on this issue. I think it should be the woman's right to choose. But I also think I should be able to club them over the head and drag them back to my cave.

[wmw999 2,171]

I think there's a grey area in there for men who would like to raise an unexpected child themselves; but there is still the issue of the woman's need to take time off from work, or maybe quit their job, to have the baby. Pregnancy has a physical risk with real consequences to the woman, and not the man.

There's also the rather significantly greater social stigma of being pregnant out of wedlock, over the social stigma of having gotten someone pregnant out of wedlock.

And yes, the mother should have to pay child support if the father is raising the child. Maybe the father should during the pregnancy period, though.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Darius11 12]

Wow good question.

This is a subject that I can never go totally on one side.
It is a moral issue and morals are very personal.

I think it is a woman’s body and it is ultimately her choice, However when there is times that both parties have agreed on not having children but for some reason a pregnancy does occur. Both parties should have say. I don’t know to what extent but the father should also have some rights as his life is effected also.
I think if there is a case will the pregnancy is planed by one party with out telling the other person involved they should be exempt from all responsibilities, and should have a say on having or not having a child.


I feel strongly about this as I have a friend that this has happened too and it has changed his life.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Jimbo 0]

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Any Questions?

Yeah, who was responsible for birth control?

The TWO people involved in the act.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Michele 1]

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Then why do the women get mad if the man has the orgasm, wipes off on the curtains and then goes home without another word?

Because we are stuck with cleaning nasty cutains, that's why!

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[turtlespeed 212]

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Any Questions?

Yeah, who was responsible for birth control?

The TWO people involved in the act.

-
Jim

Yep - it was a shared responsibility, neither of took any steps - the result was human life - the courts and her took that away from me. Fucking Murderers

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun