My first new rig - need to make an informed decision

[theQ 1]

Hello,

Well, after 20 years of not jumping i decided to do it again and I regained my solo status and flying a 220 from the DZ. I am 5' 11" at 175-180lbs.

I am pretty decent with the canopy flying, was trained on accuracy and funny i still remember how to get close to the target.

I know I will be buying an olded rig with RSL that's the part i know - the part I don't is what size main, I am thinking 170 or even a 150. The main idea is that I want a versatile container that will allow me to downsize easily in the next few good years without selling and buying a bunch of containers till I get settled on what fits me best.

What should I do, I defer this to the more knowledgeable.

I would appreciate any thoughts you might have!

Thanks in advance!
Q

[wasatchrider 0]

how many jumps did you have before?
why are you jumping a 220 from the dz and want a 150-170?
Why not rent canopies that size and see how you are doing.
you will also hear dont buy for the future buy for now.

BASE 1519

[NWFlyer 2]

180 lbs + 30(ish) lbs of gear puts you at about 210 exit weight, give or take.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3470220

The recommendations in this thread are well-regarded within the skydiving community and might be worth considering as you decide what to buy.

As for rigs, a fair-priced used purchase that is well-maintained will hold its value fairly well, and buying/selling really isn't that big a deal if you do decide to downsize later. Also, some components (AAD, potentially the reserve) can transfer to a new rig.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[skytribe 16]

How about ask the instructors at your drop zone rather than complete strangers. Each person is different and the best advice is probably going to be from those that have observed/taught you.

[theQ 1]

I did do that, I wanted to tackle it from all angles.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[theQ 1]

before i had around 160 jumps mainly with accuracy style chutes, 7 cells, the very puffy kind :).

I am flying 220 from a 240 from a 260, i guess that's the standard progression for a student, I didn't questioned it, I followed what the instructor told me. I assume I will be jumping smaller canopies till I buy my own, this thread is to make an informed decision.

For a while I will still be renting DZ rigs but I need to understand what I want/need.

It is a good point about buying for now... I just hoped I only could swap mains but looks like that's not that practical. Do you thnk is wise to keep an eye on versatile containers or just to get over it and pick one then move to another one.

Thanks!!!

[wmw999 2,149]

You can swap mains a size or two, but the last thing you want to do is to buy something that's super-tight for an intelligently-sized
Main, because you'll never pack it. So buy used, but buy something that's sized for what you want to jump now, and then downsize.
There are rigs out there there like that; I know Spaceland has one with. 210 main that's fairly sporty, but I have no idea where you are.

One thing to consider is that you DON'T want to get a rig with a small reserve. No one ever looked up at their reserve and wished it was smaller.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[countzero 7]

It is possible to find a used container that will hold a range of canopies. I have an Eclipse that I've had from a 170 to a 126 in. Look for used Racer, Vector, and Javelin. They can be found for a decent price. Get one that holds a reserve and a main that is safe for you to jump now and for a downsize or 2 of the main. You can always sell or pass it on to a jumper in the future when you're more apt to know what you'll be jumping for a long time.

diamonds are a dawgs best friend

[faulknerwn 37]

Ditto - what is your body weight and how many jumps do you have? What were you jumping when you quit?

[riggerrob 561]

What are your goals?
Do you want to compete in precision landing?
Do you want to do exhibition jumps into tight stadiums?
Do you want to BASE jump?
Do you want to compete in canopy formations?
Do you want to compete in canopy piloting?
Do you want to jump wing-suits?

[theQ 1]

Right now I am jumping a 220 but I thinking that by this time next year will be on a 150. So I am going to get a container that can fit a 150 main, container that should allow me to downsize if feel like it.

21 one years ago I was jumping a RL12/2, the 7 cell, a German accuracy parachute. This years I started with a PD Navigator 260 that thing is huge.

What I want to achieve in this sport is to be able to land where I want while having fun in the air. I am not doing this for performance, that ship has sail 21 years ago. Basically I want nothing more than to be a fun jumper that enjoys the freedom and vista only the skydivers enjoy.

I found a Mirage G4 M1 that can fit mains up to 150 so now I am looking for a main.

I weight 175-180, depending on how much water I drink :) :)

[Joellercoaster 6]

theQ

I found a Mirage G4 M1 that can fit mains up to 150 so now I am looking for a main.

I weight 175-180, depending on how much water I drink :) :)

My opinion is worth what you paid for it, and I don't know you. But you did ask, so:

based on the other information you have given, that is very aggressive. You haven't shown any other signs of wanting to be that aggressive, so I would say it's just too small!

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[theQ 1]

Joellercoaster

***I found a Mirage G4 M1 that can fit mains up to 150 so now I am looking for a main.

I weight 175-180, depending on how much water I drink :) :)

My opinion is worth what you paid for it, and I don't know you. But you did ask, so:

based on the other information you have given, that is very aggressive. You haven't shown any other signs of wanting to be that aggressive, so I would say it's just too small!

Yes, it looks that way but I won't transition from 220 to 150 just like that. I will not jump my new rig anytime soon

1. I need get comfortable on a 170 first, doing the transition downwards properly 210, 190, 170 - I will ask my instructors to advise me on that transition.
2. It won't happen anytime soon. I spent most of my budget, need to get a main(thinking Silhouette) and an AAD.

[sundevil777 94]

theQ

******I found a Mirage G4 M1 that can fit mains up to 150 so now I am looking for a main.

I weight 175-180, depending on how much water I drink :) :)

My opinion is worth what you paid for it, and I don't know you. But you did ask, so:

based on the other information you have given, that is very aggressive. You haven't shown any other signs of wanting to be that aggressive, so I would say it's just too small!

Yes, it looks that way but I won't transition from 220 to 150 just like that. I will not jump my new rig anytime soon

1. I need get comfortable on a 170 first, doing the transition downwards properly 210, 190, 170 - I will ask my instructors to advise me on that transition.
2. It won't happen anytime soon. I spent most of my budget, need to get a main(thinking Silhouette) and an AAD.

Have you considered that your exit weight will exceed what PD recommends for maximum, and way above what it considers appropriate for an expert?

[inline sil_wt_chart.jpg]

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[theQ 1]

I am pretty good with the canopy, my instructor had only good words to say about it, I personally don't think I am expert - that takes thousands of jumps. I pilot the canopy pretty cleanly I'd say.

I did not see that chart. I will get in touch with my instructor, maybe I rushed it.

[sundevil777 94]

theQ

I am pretty good with the canopy, my instructor had only good words to say about it, I personally don't think I am expert - that takes thousands of jumps. I pilot the canopy pretty cleanly I'd say.

I did not see that chart. I will get in touch with my instructor, maybe I rushed it.

Your exit weight will put you past the "exp" recommendations even for a Sabre2, for which the table is shifted up in terms of weight compared to the Silhouette. What this is telling you is that it was not wise to buy a container for which you might be able to fit a 150 into it. You have time to sell your container for a larger, more appropriate one.

Instructors are not always as conservative as they should be. You should also consider trusting the advice of the canopy manufacturers and downsizing progression charts which are available from very respected experts on the subject like Brian Germain - search for it.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rjblake 1]

Here is the link to Brian Germain's guide:

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

I had a lay off for over 20 years, but was jumping rounds back in the day. Only recently did my A licence; but I'd reckon that a 20 year break would be close to starting over. A 150 would give you a wing loading of around 1.4. As per Brian's chart, you'd be current with around 400 jumps for that. I chose the safe(r) route - went with a Pulse 210 and would look to downsize to a 190 at best. Even as I rack up the jumps, I'm still getting older and I'd rather be jumping that healing from an injury. My $0.02

[Trafficdiver 8]

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

[theQ 1]

There were some good comments here. Thanks you much!

I tend to be on the safe side, I do it for fun not for pain. BTW I did too jump rounds 20 years back, around 40 jumps of them, fun but no control, after that I jumped the wings.

A general observation unrelated to the OT - I don't think anyone is following the manufacturer chats. You can't tell me that all those guys that fly bellow 100sf mains follow the manufacturer specs - as a matter of fact probably most of them are breaking the max exit weight for the given chute surface to achieve higher wing loads or brag how small their main (chute) is :)

Sure some are experts and beyond, just some.

[Quagmirian 40]

theQ

A general observation unrelated to the OT - I don't think anyone is following the manufacturer chats.

That is simply untrue, and not a good idea to get into your head.

[NowAndLater 0]

theQ

I am pretty good with the canopy, my instructor had only good words to say about it, I personally don't think I am expert - that takes thousands of jumps. I pilot the canopy pretty cleanly I'd say.

I did not see that chart. I will get in touch with my instructor, maybe I rushed it.

My question to you is, what are you doing here? According to your first post it is to 'defer to the more knowledgeable' but you dismiss everything said until you 'speak with your instructor.'

What made you come to the conclusion you were thinking a silhouette? WHO told you WHAT about this canopy that sold you on it without even checking to see (or even knowing this was possible) that your prospective wing loading would be, literally, OFF the charts??

OF COURSE your instructor had only good things to say about it, you are alive and progressing. A teacher is not going to bash you when trying to forward your learning. Maybe you rushed it?? You think!?

Quit being big headed. Sell that container for a different one. A lot has happened in 20 years in skydiving. You're not 'coming back after a break', you are new. Canopys don't fly like they did, containers don't work like they did, and you didn't have all the experiences of other people to learn from that we do in modern times. Don't be a statistic because you refuse to learn from others mistakes. Equally as important, don't be a statistic because you choose to listen to only ONE persons mistakes.

This message may sound harsh but its better than an obituary.

I'm out.

Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance.

[theQ 1]

Quagmirian

***A general observation unrelated to the OT - I don't think anyone is following the manufacturer chats.

That is simply untrue, and not a good idea to get into your head.

"Anyone" was indeed generalizing, but I've seen people that jump 97-135 and are around 160-175lbs, there is no way that's in the range the manufacturer recommends. E.g. Stilletto 97 max exit weight is 165lbs, I've seen people at 180-190 jumping those! Anyhow this is an observation, ain't me that breaks those specs - just to be clear so I won't get another harsh and long scolding!

[theQ 1]

NowAndLater

***I am pretty good with the canopy, my instructor had only good words to say about it, I personally don't think I am expert - that takes thousands of jumps. I pilot the canopy pretty cleanly I'd say.

I did not see that chart. I will get in touch with my instructor, maybe I rushed it.

My question to you is, what are you doing here? According to your first post it is to 'defer to the more knowledgeable' but you dismiss everything said until you 'speak with your instructor.'

What made you come to the conclusion you were thinking a silhouette? WHO told you WHAT about this canopy that sold you on it without even checking to see (or even knowing this was possible) that your prospective wing loading would be, literally, OFF the charts??

OF COURSE your instructor had only good things to say about it, you are alive and progressing. A teacher is not going to bash you when trying to forward your learning. Maybe you rushed it?? You think!?

Quit being big headed. Sell that container for a different one. A lot has happened in 20 years in skydiving. You're not 'coming back after a break', you are new. Canopys don't fly like they did, containers don't work like they did, and you didn't have all the experiences of other people to learn from that we do in modern times. Don't be a statistic because you refuse to learn from others mistakes. Equally as important, don't be a statistic because you choose to listen to only ONE persons mistakes.

This message may sound harsh but its better than an obituary.

I'm out.


Ha, it was harsh.

Someone here told me plain and clear not to trust strangers advice's, a thing I knew so I always talk with my instructors and they do tell me when I make mistakes, I like it that way. As for my first canopy I am considering Silhouette or Pilot, I read reviews about them, lots of people praise them to be a good first canopy to own. How did you get info about your first canopy ?!

I understand that there are two kind of people out there
- people that care for piloting the canopy and
- people that careless about piloting the canopy (IMHO these people should never try to give advice about canopies)

I do enjoy piloting, it's fun and I don't get the second category, not even a bit.

I prefer to learn from other people mistakes so I took note of all the above!