DZ choices for student rigs

[pchapman 261]

I got asked in another thread, which I didn't want to derail, why my DZO picked Aerodyne for new student & rental rigs.

It seemed reasonable to start a thread on choices of student gear, if anyone cares.

I'm not a particular fan of Aerodyne, but don't have anything against them either. Their rigs just aren't as common around here and they don't have canopies at the top end of the sport, winning swoop meets.

My DZO wanted some new student & rental rigs (but not totally replacing the old ones), and realized that Aerodyne can offer a complete solution: reserve, rig, main canopy.

I don't know but I think the price was a little better not being one of the top players. Aerodyne also offers the Skyhook which only a few can.

Swinging the deal at the end was that Aerodyne was also more willing than some to make DZ-specific modifications to the gear.

[Coreefdiver 0]

I'm not a DZO, but as with most business decisions, I think it has a lot to do with ROI.

best features, options and quality for the money.

I'm sure experience, and any contractual agreements will play into the decision somewhere ;)

I've also seen a lot of the student/rental gear is what ever the main line is of the local loft/SD goody store (usually pretty close relationships (business and/or personal)

DS#727, DB Cooper #41, POPS #11065, SCR #13183, FA #2125, SCS #8306, HALO #309 SRA #5930

[Arvoitus 1]

What does winning swoop meets got to do with selecting student gear?

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[Para-cutie 0]

My Club bought all new student containers from Aerodyne this past year too. They were one of the few to offer to send us a student rig to demo (only 2 actually sent one), would do static line, and of course having the skyhook was a major sell too. Overall we've been extremely happy with them.

I'm a little teapot short and stout, here is my handle and here's a note from my shrink. He says I'm getting better. Last week I thought I was a toaster oven!
-Dot Warner

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

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What does winning swoop meets got to do with selecting student gear?

+1

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[pchapman 261]

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What does winning swoop meets got to do with selecting student gear?

Not necessarily anything. That's my point too.

[Hellis 0]

Do you mind telling what the DZ mod is that you guys have?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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What does winning swoop meets got to do with selecting student gear?

The exact same as any other promotion/sponsorship activites. It gets the name out and on people's minds. Regardless of how appropriate the exact sponsored item is for any other activity. (swoop canopies are obviously not appropriate for students)

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[pchapman 261]

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Do you mind telling what the DZ mod is that you guys have?

For the student freefall rigs, they are of the style with a main ripcord, like old style US AFF. The mods are to add an FXC to the main container. Also, the ripcord handle will be in the BOC location - not sure off hand if that is an option or a custom mod.

(The DZ has had other rigs since about 2003 set up that way too. Those will still be used. They were also custom modified for main AAD's, but with the design & installation done by me at the DZ when I was a staff rigger.)

Anyway, it shows Aerodyne is willing to work with DZ's even for fairly unusual requests, rather than taking a take it or leave it attitude.

[adventurechick 0]

FYI- Infinity makes student rigs-- Used by Skydive Georgia, Aerohio, Skydive Snohomish, Skydive Kapowsin and more :-)

PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860
SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233

[klingeme 0]

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Do you mind telling what the DZ mod is that you guys have?

For the student freefall rigs, they are of the style with a main ripcord, like old style US AFF. The mods are to add an FXC to the main container. Also, the ripcord handle will be in the BOC location - not sure off hand if that is an option or a custom mod.

(The DZ has had other rigs since about 2003 set up that way too. Those will still be used. They were also custom modified for main AAD's, but with the design & installation done by me at the DZ when I was a staff rigger.)

Anyway, it shows Aerodyne is willing to work with DZ's even for fairly unusual requests, rather than taking a take it or leave it attitude.

UPT's student containers are also available with FXC Setup and spring loaded pilot chutes with the ripcord in the BOC position. SkyHook is standard on the SE.
We also have a few demo student containers we send out upon request. We however, do not manufacture canopies. We try to work with DZOs on any "special requests" they may need.

Mark Klingelhoefer
United Parachute Technologies

[riggerrob 558]

Funny!
Back in 2001, I converted all the student rigs at Perris Valley, California from main ripcords (with FXC 12000 Rev. M) to double-handle BOC, throw-outs ... and Perris was one of the last large American DZs to convert.

Perhaps my bias against main ripcords was pounded home in 1979 when I opened unstable and acquired a scar in my moustache!
When most Canadian DZS covnerted from military-surplus student gear to piggybacks (during the mid 1980s) most instructors were happy to convert to Instructor Assisted Deployment ... which led to hand-deploy pilot chutes for freefall students.
USPA stubbornly resisted IAD and throw-outs for a decade ... until they became fashionable ... then it was comical to watch the mad rush to convert American student gear.

I also remember struggling to work the bugs out of (retired US President) George Bush senior's student Telesis with main ripcord, FXC 12000 M and an extra ripcord handle for the reserve-side instructor. At the end of that (long) process, Sandy Reid said: "We will never ship another rig like that!"

In conclusion, main ripcords and AADs create more problems than they solve!_

[DBlank 0]

We have Vector SEs with Navigators, Just got them last season, before that we had some old blue ripcord based rig with Mantas. Our rental and coach student gear is Vector3s with Sabre2s.

I personally disagree with the Sabre2s, and think that something more like a Pilot is a better choice for new jumpers based on my experience as a poor canopy student.

"Do you really want to take advice from the guy we call Tarmac?"

[AndyMan 7]

Chicagoland Skydiving Center in Rochelle has a full line-up of Mirage RTS rigs in various sizes, never more than 3 years old. Each student rig has a PD Navigator and PD reserve in a size appropriate for the harness. The older ones have Cypres's while the newer ones have Vigil II's.

CSC also has a small number of 'conversion' rigs available for rent. These are intended to be available for those who have finished AFF but haven't yet acquired gear of their own. The only difference with these rigs is that they have Saber2's instead of Navigators.

As an instructor who often teaches using this gear, I'm very happy with it, and am even happier that I can tell my students with a straight face that we have some of the best student gear in the world.

I don't know the price the DZ pays for this gear, but the DZ is a big Mirage dealer so there's probably a volume discount. It also seems like these rigs have good resale value so they're easy to unload after a few years of use.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[verticalflier 0]

Peter,
you will have to ask your dzo that question. It is easier than guessing. He made the decision of getting Aerodyne student rigs at PIA in Reno last February. Yes UPT, Mirage, Velocity (Infinity), Sunpath and others were there as well as several canopy manufacturers. He did his homework with everyone he liked and made his personal decision. I did not check if he ordered these Student Icons out of new "ballistic" fabric, I hope he did, as it is very durable in student rig application and awesome to work with. If you get a chance to work with these rigs please let us know your feedback :) I am planning on making couple of tour stops in Canada this summer. I agree with you. The skydivers up there may not have best opportunities in trying our gear. Several big way participants that come down to US for training have had a chance to demo and buy our equipment in past few years, but not all Canadian jumpers come to US. We will try to do better and bring Aerodyne to them, so they have more choices and opportunities to fly our equipment. Please keep checking our event calendar for our tours stops near you.

[Canadianfella 0]

Just wanted to post a picture of the current student gear... cause i know you're all wondering!

Keep in mind, it is set up for static line in the photo... the accoutrements are simply in the photo for explanation...

the golf ball at the boc (barely visible) is a practice handle for students transferring from S/L to freefall. The actual ripcord handles are the same, only with a pin attached and routed through the housing on the R side main flap.

The handle on top of the main pin cover flap is there to show what is used to cock the AAD prior to setup for freefall.

The RWS springloaded pilot chute below the rig is what is used for freefall students.

...for safety...


***Edited to add photo... oops.

[Glitch 0]

It's hard to see what all the accoutrements are... either I'm missing something, or you did!

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[adventurechick 0]

Also to add to Velocity Sports Equipment student Infinity containers

-We can do all 1000 denier fabric at no extra cost
-We can do FXC set up and just did a special order for a dropzone that wanted kap3 set ups
-SOS is at no additional cost
-We have adjustable mlw and telescoping legpads
-Cypres Window
-Secondary Riser protection down the whole side of the container
-Secure main pin cover flap
-AFF Hinged BOC pocket and handle
-RSL is standard at no additional cost
-Custom colors

http://www.velocityrigs.com/products.php?product=infinity&sub=student for pictures and MSRP pricing

Thanks!

PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860
SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233

[riggerrob 558]

There is a vastly simpler method to attach that FXC 12000 to the main flap.
Hint: I invented it back in 1997.

Start by throwing your large, cumbersome mounting plate in the trash.
Sew a little strap (1/2 inch, Type 4 tape) near where the power cable housing if supposed to stop. Wrap a steel strap around the ferrule and through the strap. Tighten the screw on the strap. Done!

[pchapman 261]

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There is a vastly simpler method to attach that FXC 12000 to the main flap.

Interesting that your way worked well enough. I figured the idea of the big FXC plate was to provide stiffness, to ensure that the pin got pulled out, rather than the FXC housing being pulled towards the pin.

I suppose that with any reasonably well filled main tray, you found that the pin would pull, rather than compressing up the soft flap?

[Abedy 0]

German DZ - German gear. That simple? Not really. But the Next rigs are excellent quality made by Paratec. We still use "old style" AFF gear with ripcords and spring-loaded PCs but Paratec also offers "modern" AFF gear. The 300 sqft mains are Falcons (OK, not German, but really good workhorses) and the smaller ones by Paratec.
AADs are only by Airtec, i. e.: CYPRES.

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

[piisfish 135]

we have a subtle mix of VSE Infinity's and RI Telesis and a nice Talon FX
Reserves are PD-R or Icarus Reserve
Mains are IIRC Silhouettes and Safire 2's
AAD's are Cypres2, student or expert depending on the rig.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[riggerrob 558]

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There is a vastly simpler method to attach that FXC 12000 to the main flap.

Interesting that your way worked well enough. I figured the idea of the big FXC plate was to provide stiffness, to ensure that the pin got pulled out, rather than the FXC housing being pulled towards the pin.

I suppose that with any reasonably well filled main tray, you found that the pin would pull, rather than compressing up the soft flap?

..........................................................................

Yes, but the Telesis that I was working on already had a (40/1000" thick) MDS stiffener (that was slightly longer than a ripcord pin) between the grommet and the end of the power cable housing.

That stiffener prevented the housing from moving any closer to the grommet, when the FXC 12000 got scared.