Freeflaw 0 #1 November 19, 2010 On my seventh reserve pack job I managed to rip a cypress washer from hole to hole. I was closing the bottom flap (last flap) of my wings container with a very short closing loop when I suddenly felt the tension slowly melt away. It was not the sudden breaking that you feel when loop rips but a very gradual decline in closing loop tension. When I opened the container I found a sliced washer. The washer had not been visibly damaged and had been used for the last three pack jobs on this container. Pretty weird. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #2 November 19, 2010 I busted one about a year ago, also on a Wings. The packjob was tight but under 22 lbs (measured after I put in a new washer and same length loop). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #3 November 19, 2010 QuoteI busted one about a year ago, also on a Wings. The packjob was tight but under 22 lbs (measured after I put in a new washer and same length loop). but how much pressure was applied at the highest point during closing the container ? Surely more than 22lbs :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #4 November 19, 2010 QuoteThe washer had not been visibly damaged and had been used for the last three pack jobs on this container. Maybe you should change your loop and "smiley" on every pack job.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #5 November 19, 2010 I have to admit I have NEVER heard of this. I wonder if Airtec has changed the alloy of the washers? Time to ask. Thread link sent to SSK. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #6 November 19, 2010 First time I have heard of it too!!!! I have re-used some Cypres washers dozens of times and only replaced them when they started to corrode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #7 November 19, 2010 I pull a loop, make a new one using the washer from another used loop and then throw the used one into the box for the washer to be used next time. I haven't but a new one in service in years. I've never seen any deformation and I've never seen any corrosion.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #8 November 19, 2010 Photo availale?I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #9 November 19, 2010 I am aware of at least two smilie discs that have done the same thing here in Australia. I believe there was a recall of a certain number of discs. I will try and find the advisory but from memory there was a difference in the 'shine' of the discs.I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdsouthsask 0 #10 November 19, 2010 I too have had one do that. When bringing up the pressure for the last flap it too felt as if the pressure melted away and then my loop was much longer than desired. The washer metal was pulled from hole to hole. This was the only one that did it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #11 November 19, 2010 Just damn, we've had a few of these too over the past year. I keep meaning to send a note to Airtec...glad to hear Terry has...I'll need to follow-up as well. All of the times it has happened here is when we are pre-stretching the loop before putting it in the rig. I think we still have the discs at the shop...will have to dig them out. MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irishrigger 31 #12 November 19, 2010 i had that happen to me once,if i remeber correctly it was on a wings container also.but i made the reserve lop to short and was over stretching it. i think this can happen if you a tool crank tool. rodger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Freeflaw 0 #13 November 19, 2010 It might still be flying around in the loft. I'll check. I doubt it's still around though. If it is, I'll post a pic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrLicious 0 #14 November 19, 2010 WOW!!! I always look at the washer, and if it has any corrosion I replace it, but 9 times out of 10 I put a new loop in it and use the same washer.There are no pessimists in skydiving. My Advice: It's worth what you pay for it, and I'm an expert at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livnbored 0 #15 November 20, 2010 crazy. I've never had this happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firemedic 7 #16 November 20, 2010 I've never seen this happen. I would like to see a pic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #17 November 20, 2010 I saw one break this year too. Again not a tight close at all. Odd. The one that broke for me looked old, so I wonder if the age of some of these means we should just start replacing older ones. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #18 November 20, 2010 I made Cliff at SSK aware of the thread and asked for information. He said he would reply with info from Germany but my message got to him after 5 on friday, German time. I expect something next week Someone please post a pic?I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #19 November 20, 2010 Here ya go...this happened as the loop was being pre-stretched to put into a rig. It was a fresh loop and new disc. MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #20 November 21, 2010 That looks just like the one I saw here in AustraliaI like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #21 November 21, 2010 After seeing the damaged Cypres washer picture, I would say that it is not a question of new, old or corroded washer. I think it's a missing heat treatment problem. Any parachute rig piece of hardware would be put out of shape without the appropriate heat treatment. Could this washer by any chance have two holes drilled too close ? Personally it's a big surprise and I never had that problem with the rigs I have packed including the Wings systems. However, I am now using more and more the Vigil washer which is made of stainless steel. It has only one hole and 2 clefts on the sides. See the picture.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #22 November 21, 2010 Quote I think it's a missing heat treatment problem. Any parachute rig piece of hardware would be put out of shape without the appropriate heat treatment. Could this washer by any chance have two holes drilled too close ? The washers look to be "cold stamped" probably in a two stage die. My guess is stress fractures resulting from a dull die punch in the first stage. (which punches the holes). Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #23 November 21, 2010 If what you say is correct ie. (holes done with a die), the hole chamfer or bevelled edge should remove the possible fractures. It would be interesting using a microscope to see the damaged washers and look for micro cracks. Also how do you explain that most of the washers are OK ? The very small number of failures has suggested me that those faulty washers have missed the heat treatment. Speculations here. But wait a minute, I just have tried a Cypres washer with a file strike and I can see it is made of ordinary soft steel. OTOH the visible remainder of the burr around the washer shows that the washers are stamped at least for the round shape. Mystery ??? Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #24 November 21, 2010 Hi Andre', Quote Mystery ??? Failure analysis can be a lot of fun or it can be very frustrating. It is very possible ( and there are only about 159 possibilities ) that AirTec has the parts/washers built by some 3rd party and the supplier changed something w/o telling anyone. It has happened many, many times. Been there, done that. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #25 November 22, 2010 Quote If what you say is correct ie. (holes done with a die), the hole chamfer or bevelled edge should remove the possible fractures. If it was going to be heat treated, yes. Sharp corners and heat treating do not mix. The holes look to be punched as the surrounding metal is raised. If you look closely you can see a "mound" around the holes. The force of a dull punch can tear the metal alot like cookie dough tears. The way I would inspect it would be UT.(Ultrasonic Testing) Or I would float a pancake probe (Eddy Current Testing) over it. This is my "real" job field. Nondestructive Testing(NDE) in the Nuclear Industry. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites