GLIDEANGLE 1 #1 June 2, 2008 I was busy yesterday doing 4-way RW team training jumps. It was windy enough for me to worry about my canopy giving me trouble on the ground. To allow a cutaway on the ground if necessary (without reserve deployment), as soon as I had a good main canopy overhead, I disconnected my RSL. I landed un-eventfully without cutting away on the ground. I hurried to pack my main for our next jump. We were on a short call so I grabbed my rig and put it on as I walked to the mock-up of the aircraft door to rehearse our exit. As I did so, I noted to my dismay that I failed to reconnect my RSL when I packed my main. I reconnected my RSL with a bit of difficulty as I wear bifocal eyeglasses for my myopia (nearsightedness) and presbyopia (can’t see close things either). The RSL was so close to me that it was hard to see. After I got the snap shackle closed through the RSL ring on the riser, something didn’t look right. I unhooked the RSL and discovered to my horror that the snap shackle end of the RSL had passed from back to front through the large ring of the cutaway 3-ring assembly! SEE THE ATTACHED PHOTOS. The rig is a “Wings”, so there is Velcro on the RSL. I suspect that this mis-routing would have delayed or prevented both the RSL pulling the reserve pin, and the departure of the main riser on that side in case of a cutaway. How did this happen? 1. Complacency “It is just the RSL.” 2. Urgency… packing and donning my rig in a hurry to make the load with my team. 3. Trying to fix this while wearing the rig, which made seeing the assembly well very difficult. What allowed me to catch this error? I knew how the RSL should be routed and why.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #2 June 2, 2008 Good thing you noticed that Jim!!!! That could have turned out bad.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #3 June 2, 2008 I hurried to pack my main for our next jump. We were on a short call so I grabbed my rig and put it on as I walked to the mock-up of the aircraft door to rehearse our exit. Quote A pat on the back for recognizing it, a kick in the shin for causing it. Looking at the pics I would guess you may very well had a spinner had you needed to cut-away. You listed a couple of links in the 'chain of disaster' that are easily prevented... ~ You did something 'different' than your usual routine in the unhooking of the RSL, and failed to address that deviation after the jump. ~ You got rushed. From the post, you know what happened & why...& I doubt you'll ever let THAT happen again! Quick rant: It's the summer season and it's getting busy, lets all take our time to be safe...no matter how much time that takes. You don't see professional firefighters running into a burning building before they are 100% squared away both with their gear and their plan. We all need to push for that level of personal safety and professionalism. Your 'plan' should include enough time to do everything you need to do, in a safe and meticulous manner. Whenever I see a jumper running with a packed rig I tend to pay special attention to them and their gear...more often than not they're fine, but then again, in the past 6 weeks I've caught a misrouted chest-strap and a twisted led-strap... while ON THE AIRCRAFT. Skydiving IS a high risk endeavour, it up to us all to take the measures necessary to reduce all possible risk. Complacency is a killer, and the only award you get for rushing is ... ............1st one to the crater. Lets ALL be safe, and watch out for each other!! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #4 June 2, 2008 Wow, I was training an A-license candidate tonight and snuck that very thing into my rig. She got it right away on the pincheck. One of my students, yeah, baby! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #5 June 2, 2008 QuoteLets ALL be safe, and watch out for each other!! Amen, brother. We had a jumper pull another jumper back in the plane this weekend. His reserve had opened and the pilot chute was on the floor. Keep your eyes open, watch out for your buddies, and get a gear check. Let's all be around for our DZ's Christmas party this year, okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #6 June 2, 2008 QuoteI was busy yesterday doing 4-way RW team training jumps. It was windy enough for me to worry about my canopy giving me trouble on the ground. To allow a cutaway on the ground if necessary (without reserve deployment), as soon as I had a good main canopy overhead, I disconnected my RSL. I landed un-eventfully without cutting away on the ground. reply] If you where worried about the wind, then perhaps you should not have been jumping! I see others have pointed to the cahin of possible probelsm with this whole jump, noting you hurried with a sense of urgency and things like that. I would not jump on a day that the wind worried me and I have seen and will continue to see people push jumping in windy conditions and wonder why. What is so important about that jump that you would have jumped in conditions that worried you? I hope that you don't thik I am picking on you, make you look bad or any thing like that, you asked a question and now I am asking one of you. Be safe, if the wind worried you that much, stay on the ground, as you have learned it lead you into misrouting your RSL. Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Baksteen 84 #7 June 2, 2008 I can't speak for the OP, but I'd say there is a difference between being able to land safely and worrying that you might not get your canopy to the ground quick enough to avoid being dragged. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micduran 0 #8 June 2, 2008 Rushing to make a call can be scary. We had a short call on Saturday. A couple of experienced people were helping someone get packed so she could make the load. I happened to walk by and look at her rig just as they were closing it. Nobody cocked her pilot chute.Be patient with the faults of others; they have to be patient with yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #9 June 2, 2008 Good eye. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,434 #10 June 2, 2008 > If you where worried about the wind, then perhaps you should not have > been jumping! It is common to jump in winds that are safe to land in, but may give the jumper troubles deflating his/her canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdthomas 0 #11 June 2, 2008 Quote> If you where worried about the wind, then perhaps you should not have > been jumping! It is common to jump in winds that are safe to land in, but may give the jumper troubles deflating his/her canopy. This is true and coming from kansas I see alot of wind. I guess we don't know what speed or variables the OP was jumping in, but my point is that is it wise to jump in conditions that you will have trouble deflating your canopy? if you are worried you will get drug then I don't think so. If it is so windy how will a possible bad spot be accounted for in your ladning, will you possibly be landing by some hazards and also have to deal with hi winds these are all things to consider with wind and then factor in your real parachute the reserve. If the winds are sketchy for your main ask yourself would you jump your reserve in these conditions? have you ever jumped your reserve? most would say not. My thought is windy days are not the time to learn how your reserve flys or lands. Those are things I would ask a jumper to consider, the OP asked and I shared my conservative thoughts.www.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #12 June 2, 2008 QuoteI can't speak for the OP, but I'd say there is a difference between being able to land safely and worrying that you might not get your canopy to the ground quick enough to avoid being dragged. I wouldn't. If the wind is strong enough to make me think I might need to cutaway the main to not get drug, the wind is strong enough that I don't need to be in the air. Part of risk management is avoiding situations in which the likelihood of getting hurt is higher. The likelihood of getting hurt is higher when you are landing in high winds. Besides, you aren't done landing until you have the canopy under control. If you get drug, you didn't land safely. If you are worried enough that you might get drug to disconnect the RSL, the winds are too high. Find something else to do until they come down. Other jumpers don't come out to watch high wind landings because they are impressed with the skill of those jumping in them, they're out there to see the carnage. Makes for good video. Up to you if you'd rather be the guy with the camera on the ground or the subject. I'd rather be holding the camera and walking out of the landing area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #13 June 2, 2008 High wind experience... ~jumpers with it, sit in lawn chairs and watch jumpers without it...get it! But on the other hand I gotta agree with Bill, there is a pretty wide margin between winds that are 'not ideal' and winds that are 'unsafe'... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites millertime24 8 #14 June 2, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldnt the rsl still work as it was designed to in this configuration? What I mean is that the riser is still going to pull on the rsl regardless of routing and then wouldnt the bridal and ring end of the rsl simply pass through the big ring on the 3 ring allowing the main to seperate? I'm not saying I would jump it that way or would reccomend doing so, but I dont believe this would have caused 1 riser to not release on a mal thats all.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scrumpot 1 #15 June 2, 2008 QuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but wouldnt the rsl still work as it was designed to in this configuration? So long as the middle ring does not jam, hang up on it, and/or not clear from the RSL material shrinking the circumfrance of the large ring by being routed as it is, inside of it.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #16 June 2, 2008 QuoteQuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the rsl still work as it was designed to in this configuration? So long as the middle ring does not jam, hang up on it, and/or not clear from the RSL material shrinking the circumference of the large ring by being routed as it is, inside of it. As well as the design of the system allowing for the lanyard itself to be pulled at an angle and force (less leverage) outside of it's probable design parameters. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #17 June 2, 2008 What do you consider to be high winds? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites poe62 0 #18 June 2, 2008 The wind was around 18-25 mph that day where the OP was jumping (SDD). It's pretty typical there. Having witnessed a few people being dragged a wee bit on landing due to canopies staying inflated (myself included), I understand his desire to disconnect the RSL this weekend. I've seen this team stand down when the wind gets sketchy on more than one occasion. Edited to add: Good catch, Jim!!!~Nikki http://www.facebook.com/poe62 Irgity Dirgity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdthomas 0 #19 June 2, 2008 QuoteThe wind was around 18-25 mph that day where the OP was jumping (SDD). It's pretty typical there. Having witnessed a few people being dragged a wee bit on landing due to canopies staying inflated (myself included), I understand his desire to disconnect the RSL this weekend. I've seen this team stand down when the wind gets sketchy on more than one occasion. Edited to add: Good catch, Jim!!! 18-25mph, seems a bit high to me but to each his own I guess, just seems oddd that he was worried yet still jumped. I guess when I had his numbers and years int eh sport I was still wanting to jump hot and heavy as well, just glad I had some guys take me aside and oofer thier guidence and I am really stoked that this jumper wants to learn and is willing to show his rsl config to us all and help collect thoughts so as others may learn as well. Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UDSkyJunkie 0 #20 June 3, 2008 Nice catch! That's one I've heard of but not actually seen until now. Stay vigilant, and watch others gear, too... last year I found half a dozen life-threatening errors on other people's gear, including mis-routed RSL's, 3-rings, main bridle and legstraps. If I ever make a simple, dumb mistake like that, (I haven't yet, but of course everyone says that) I hope someone returns the favor and tells me what a dumbass I am. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #21 June 3, 2008 Quote What do you consider to be high winds? High enough that there's a possibility of being drug. How high that is depends on the person and the size of their canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #22 June 3, 2008 Quote Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldnt the rsl still work as it was designed to in this configuration? What I mean is that the riser is still going to pull on the rsl regardless of routing and then wouldnt the bridal and ring end of the rsl simply pass through the big ring on the 3 ring allowing the main to seperate? I'm not saying I would jump it that way or would reccomend doing so, but I dont believe this would have caused 1 riser to not release on a mal thats all. No it's possible/likely that the 3 ring would be jamed on the RSL bridal on cutaway thus causing the riser to be stuck and thus not pulling the rsl at all. I sure wouldn't want to give it a test. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWPoul 1 #23 June 3, 2008 QuoteI wouldn't. If the wind is strong enough to make me think I might need to cutaway the main to not get drug, the wind is strong enough that I don't need to be in the air. +1 Wind which strong enough to make me worried about being dragged is way stronger than wind which I feel confortable to jump with (particularly it's wind which will push me flying back and even stronger)Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Baksteen 84 #24 June 3, 2008 Dutch students up to their 25th jump have a wind restriction of 6 m/s (13 mph). After that, up to jump #200 they are allowed in the air with winds up to 9 m/s or 20 mph. Mind you, allowed. My comfort zone depends on the direction of the wind, gusts, possible outs downwind etc. I do not usually worry about drag, but if it happens I know what to do. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #25 June 3, 2008 QuoteQuote What do you consider to be high winds? High enough that there's a possibility of being drug. How high that is depends on the person and the size of their canopy. I have boarded a plane and exited at height with 10knott winds, and come into land with 30+knots Dragging tandems. I too quickly disconnected my RSL in case of a needed breakaway. Then promptly laughed at the people on flight line, as i recommended a few low jumpers sit down.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? 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Baksteen 84 #7 June 2, 2008 I can't speak for the OP, but I'd say there is a difference between being able to land safely and worrying that you might not get your canopy to the ground quick enough to avoid being dragged. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micduran 0 #8 June 2, 2008 Rushing to make a call can be scary. We had a short call on Saturday. A couple of experienced people were helping someone get packed so she could make the load. I happened to walk by and look at her rig just as they were closing it. Nobody cocked her pilot chute.Be patient with the faults of others; they have to be patient with yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #10 June 2, 2008 > If you where worried about the wind, then perhaps you should not have > been jumping! It is common to jump in winds that are safe to land in, but may give the jumper troubles deflating his/her canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #11 June 2, 2008 Quote> If you where worried about the wind, then perhaps you should not have > been jumping! It is common to jump in winds that are safe to land in, but may give the jumper troubles deflating his/her canopy. This is true and coming from kansas I see alot of wind. I guess we don't know what speed or variables the OP was jumping in, but my point is that is it wise to jump in conditions that you will have trouble deflating your canopy? if you are worried you will get drug then I don't think so. If it is so windy how will a possible bad spot be accounted for in your ladning, will you possibly be landing by some hazards and also have to deal with hi winds these are all things to consider with wind and then factor in your real parachute the reserve. If the winds are sketchy for your main ask yourself would you jump your reserve in these conditions? have you ever jumped your reserve? most would say not. My thought is windy days are not the time to learn how your reserve flys or lands. Those are things I would ask a jumper to consider, the OP asked and I shared my conservative thoughts.www.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #12 June 2, 2008 QuoteI can't speak for the OP, but I'd say there is a difference between being able to land safely and worrying that you might not get your canopy to the ground quick enough to avoid being dragged. I wouldn't. If the wind is strong enough to make me think I might need to cutaway the main to not get drug, the wind is strong enough that I don't need to be in the air. Part of risk management is avoiding situations in which the likelihood of getting hurt is higher. The likelihood of getting hurt is higher when you are landing in high winds. Besides, you aren't done landing until you have the canopy under control. If you get drug, you didn't land safely. If you are worried enough that you might get drug to disconnect the RSL, the winds are too high. Find something else to do until they come down. Other jumpers don't come out to watch high wind landings because they are impressed with the skill of those jumping in them, they're out there to see the carnage. Makes for good video. Up to you if you'd rather be the guy with the camera on the ground or the subject. I'd rather be holding the camera and walking out of the landing area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #13 June 2, 2008 High wind experience... ~jumpers with it, sit in lawn chairs and watch jumpers without it...get it! But on the other hand I gotta agree with Bill, there is a pretty wide margin between winds that are 'not ideal' and winds that are 'unsafe'... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #14 June 2, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldnt the rsl still work as it was designed to in this configuration? What I mean is that the riser is still going to pull on the rsl regardless of routing and then wouldnt the bridal and ring end of the rsl simply pass through the big ring on the 3 ring allowing the main to seperate? I'm not saying I would jump it that way or would reccomend doing so, but I dont believe this would have caused 1 riser to not release on a mal thats all.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #15 June 2, 2008 QuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but wouldnt the rsl still work as it was designed to in this configuration? So long as the middle ring does not jam, hang up on it, and/or not clear from the RSL material shrinking the circumfrance of the large ring by being routed as it is, inside of it.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #16 June 2, 2008 QuoteQuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the rsl still work as it was designed to in this configuration? So long as the middle ring does not jam, hang up on it, and/or not clear from the RSL material shrinking the circumference of the large ring by being routed as it is, inside of it. As well as the design of the system allowing for the lanyard itself to be pulled at an angle and force (less leverage) outside of it's probable design parameters. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #17 June 2, 2008 What do you consider to be high winds? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poe62 0 #18 June 2, 2008 The wind was around 18-25 mph that day where the OP was jumping (SDD). It's pretty typical there. Having witnessed a few people being dragged a wee bit on landing due to canopies staying inflated (myself included), I understand his desire to disconnect the RSL this weekend. I've seen this team stand down when the wind gets sketchy on more than one occasion. Edited to add: Good catch, Jim!!!~Nikki http://www.facebook.com/poe62 Irgity Dirgity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #19 June 2, 2008 QuoteThe wind was around 18-25 mph that day where the OP was jumping (SDD). It's pretty typical there. Having witnessed a few people being dragged a wee bit on landing due to canopies staying inflated (myself included), I understand his desire to disconnect the RSL this weekend. I've seen this team stand down when the wind gets sketchy on more than one occasion. Edited to add: Good catch, Jim!!! 18-25mph, seems a bit high to me but to each his own I guess, just seems oddd that he was worried yet still jumped. I guess when I had his numbers and years int eh sport I was still wanting to jump hot and heavy as well, just glad I had some guys take me aside and oofer thier guidence and I am really stoked that this jumper wants to learn and is willing to show his rsl config to us all and help collect thoughts so as others may learn as well. Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #20 June 3, 2008 Nice catch! That's one I've heard of but not actually seen until now. Stay vigilant, and watch others gear, too... last year I found half a dozen life-threatening errors on other people's gear, including mis-routed RSL's, 3-rings, main bridle and legstraps. If I ever make a simple, dumb mistake like that, (I haven't yet, but of course everyone says that) I hope someone returns the favor and tells me what a dumbass I am. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #21 June 3, 2008 Quote What do you consider to be high winds? High enough that there's a possibility of being drug. How high that is depends on the person and the size of their canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #22 June 3, 2008 Quote Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldnt the rsl still work as it was designed to in this configuration? What I mean is that the riser is still going to pull on the rsl regardless of routing and then wouldnt the bridal and ring end of the rsl simply pass through the big ring on the 3 ring allowing the main to seperate? I'm not saying I would jump it that way or would reccomend doing so, but I dont believe this would have caused 1 riser to not release on a mal thats all. No it's possible/likely that the 3 ring would be jamed on the RSL bridal on cutaway thus causing the riser to be stuck and thus not pulling the rsl at all. I sure wouldn't want to give it a test. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #23 June 3, 2008 QuoteI wouldn't. If the wind is strong enough to make me think I might need to cutaway the main to not get drug, the wind is strong enough that I don't need to be in the air. +1 Wind which strong enough to make me worried about being dragged is way stronger than wind which I feel confortable to jump with (particularly it's wind which will push me flying back and even stronger)Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #24 June 3, 2008 Dutch students up to their 25th jump have a wind restriction of 6 m/s (13 mph). After that, up to jump #200 they are allowed in the air with winds up to 9 m/s or 20 mph. Mind you, allowed. My comfort zone depends on the direction of the wind, gusts, possible outs downwind etc. I do not usually worry about drag, but if it happens I know what to do. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #25 June 3, 2008 QuoteQuote What do you consider to be high winds? High enough that there's a possibility of being drug. How high that is depends on the person and the size of their canopy. I have boarded a plane and exited at height with 10knott winds, and come into land with 30+knots Dragging tandems. I too quickly disconnected my RSL in case of a needed breakaway. Then promptly laughed at the people on flight line, as i recommended a few low jumpers sit down.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
