What chance would a complete whuffo have of surviving a jump?

[Douva 0]

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On my primary rig?

If they pull silver and don't get too creative, their odds are good. Raven II - 218 sq. ft..

If they are advanced enough to deploy the main, they're screwed. EXTreme FX 99.

If they do nothing, look for the crater. The CYPRES is in the shop.


Blue skies,

Winsor

You have a 99 main and a 218 reserve? What container do you have?

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[pilotdave 0]

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WTF?! Just because I'm stuck using a piece of shit MAC at work, that means I can't watch the videos on that site? How motherfuckin' LAAAAME! I HATE sites that either don't put up both formats, and I HATE using a fucking piece of shit MAC.

NO SOUP FOR YOU!

Dave

[bch7773 0]

I think they would have a better then 50/50 chance of surviving, with a cypres. because they would probably look down and see a couple handles, and either pull the reserve or cutaway handle or both, and the reserve would probably open even with bad body position. plus, cypreses (sp?) work pretty reliably, and so thats another way to survive.

but something tells me they wouldn't deploy right out the door. considering people who have been trained and doing their first jump have sensory overload and do nothing for the first few seconds, something tells me untrained people would be even worse... plus, looking for handles takes time.

but they would probably break bones on landing, considering they don't know how to flare, steer, or plf. so they would probably reach with a leg or arm, and break it.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[flypunk 0]

The deployment would probably be ugly and by cypress,.

I've seen a student land under line twist, in a turn (about a 100' radius), facing the back, not steering not doing anything, miss all the power lines, trees and houses and land in the only clear area available, no bigger than 30' in diameter without flaring, facing the wrong way and didn't even had one single scratch on him.

I would say survival rate would be pretty high, unless he gets tangled in the canopy's upon deployment.

...

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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What are you complaining about??? Why don't you just download RealPlayer (free) and watch it??? I just watched the video on Solaris/SPARC machine, for chrissake!

I'm not allowed to download ANY software to this machine, that's why. I'm stuck being able to watch ONLY what's able to run on Mac's stupidass Quicktime.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Dougiefresh 0]

Silly question, if you ask me. Depends on so many variables that it's impossible to assign a number to it.

One way to answer this question is to throw a bunch of whuffos out of a plane with random rigs on. For another variable, see if they can put the rig on correctly themselves.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[masher 1]

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Silly question, if you ask me. Depends on so many variables that it's impossible to assign a number to it.

One way to answer this question is to throw a bunch of whuffos out of a plane with random rigs on. For another variable, see if they can put the rig on correctly themselves.

I'd like to see the ethics approval process on that one....

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[Lindsey 0]

I know 2 people who survived like that. One of them was literally THROWN from the plane!!!!!
they both still jump.

Funny that you posted this, because this same topic just came up in conversation the other day.... I haven't thought about it in years before now.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I've thought about the question, "How would a whuffo manage in freefall with zero training?" I think that because a whuffo would have no ability to stabilize the freefall, everything after that would be jeopardized.

I remember that on one of my earliest skydives, I was potato-chipping and was reluctant to deploy until I had settled, and by that time, my instructor, Dave Cole, had already docked with me (to my utter surprise) and just as I was reaching, oblivious to his proximity, he was deploying me!

The whole reason I was late in reaching was because I was still rocking around on my belly. I can easily imagine a whuffo flailing away, constantly changing attitude, if not flipping end over end the whole freefall. What kind of deployment would they have if they were flipping all over the place, totally out of control? Because I am very doubtful that they would, during a 45-60 second freefall, somehow figure out how to fly their body even if only on their belly, and manage to get enough control to have a stable deployment. And if they are flailing and flipping, I can't imagine them having a successful reach for the pilot chute. Whether they pull a silver ring or a pillow or what have you is dependent on whether the example is of a whuffo who has been briefed on gear but never trained in a skydive, or a whuffo who is simply handed a rig and told, "Go jump it."

I am reminded of two news stories I have read in the last year or so. Both involved "suicide by Cessna," in which the suicidee exited a small airplane without a parachute and died after impacting the turf. One guy was here in Florida, actually. He had been a pilot in the past; he had undergone ear surgery, he told a new instructor, and asked to be taken to 9,000 feet to see how his ears would handle pressure changes. He asked for a steep turn to be performed, and during the turn, he opened the door and jumped.

I read that after being a skydiver, and thought that there is little chance this guy got to enjoy or even experience much about the last minute of his life. I imagine that as soon as he hit terminal he was probably shocked by the fact that he couldn't maintain a stable orientation. Does anybody believe that he would be able to intuitively figure out how, unassisted? Flailing to their death, that's how I imagine whuffos going down. Put a parachute on them, and I think they're unlikely to get it deployed. I can't speak from much knowledge as to whether a CYPRES-fired reserve would have a clean and proper deployment for a totally flailing, or limp, whuffo (but I guess they work for limp unconscious skydivers, so perhaps it's likely to get a good canopy out even if flailing). Landing would be the best chance for major problems even if the freefall had gone well, because few whuffos would know anything about flaring, and if they did know, would know little about when to do so. How many would think about wind direction and landing upwind?

Blue skies,
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[adrenalinejunki 0]

I think that the cypress would fire "IF" it was turned on. Someone without training is'nt going to turn on a cypress.
As far as landing ,if they were lucky enough to get a deployment, I doubt they would even unstoe the brakes because of the fear of doing something wrong and causing a cutaway or something.
This is one of those threads that should make us all realize how important training and safety are.

__________________________________________________

What's the worst that can happen?

[billvon 2,463]

> I think that the cypress would fire "IF" it was turned on. Someone
>without training is'nt going to turn on a cypress.

Well, of course. And if someone takes Luigi's 39 sq ft main and jumps that they're not going to survive either. Nor could they pack the reserve, so if the rig was given to them unpacked they wouldn't be able to jump it safely. But with a student rig set up as for a normal jump? I'd still give them much better than 90% odds.

>As far as landing ,if they were lucky enough to get a deployment, I doubt
>they would even unstoe the brakes because of the fear of doing
>something wrong and causing a cutaway or something.

Which would be wise of them.

[ltdiver 3]

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WTF?! Just because I'm stuck using a piece of shit MAC at work, that means I can't watch the videos on that site? How motherfuckin' LAAAAME! I HATE sites that either don't put up both formats, and I HATE using a fucking piece of shit MAC.


-

Works on my Mac just fine.
ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[akarunway 1]

completely untrained, I doubt they would survive. I had some of the best instructors in the world and total sensory overload on my first AFF jump. I passed the course in 7 jumps but damn that first one was hairy. The freefall part anyway. Guess it probably depends on the person too.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[MarkM 0]

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He asked "If a completely untrained person put on a rig, went up to 12k and jumped out the door, what would be their chance of surviving?"

Pretty good. That's exactly what people did with parachutes before us skydivers got into the picture: OMG, the plane is going down, jump out and pull the handle.

Assuming they had a big square, a no flair landing wouldn't kill them.

[MikeJD 0]

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Hell RED means no! So I'd hav pulled the silver thingy.

Don't forget that red also means emergency stop - which this person might think is pretty appropriate under the circumstances

[Remster 24]

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Works on my Mac just fine.

Maybe he should analyse the situation.

Remster

[pilotdave 0]

Seems to me that it comes down to what kind of canopies the rig has, and what the person already knew going into it. What did you know about skydiving before your first jump? I think the silver handle is recognizable to an average person as a ripcord. And everybody knows that you jump, count to 3, then pull the ripcord. As far as steering goes, well, I think the average person knows to pull the left string to turn left, and the right string to turn right. Flaring is another story, so the landing would probably hurt. But assuming they don't run into an obstacle or make a low turn, and it's a big reserve canopy, I think the average person could have a survivable landing.

Dave

[speedy 0]

Give the whuffo either of my rigs and he's gonna die

Cypres is hardly going to save him, he would not know how to switch it on

And which vidiot supplied the footage to the TV station of that Scott guy? If I had filmed it I would certainly not let the TV station air my footage in such a fashion.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[mr2mk1g 10]

Worked on Point Break didn't it?

[winsor 187]

You have a 99 main and a 218 reserve? What container do you have?

[billvon 2,463]

> Give the whuffo either of my rigs and he's gonna die

I doubt it. Even if he tries to land under a small main AND he releases the brakes so it's at full flight - it's going to be like falling 15 feet to the ground, and most people will survive that. Plus which, if he pulls enough handles he will end up under a reserve, and that's a more forgiving canopy.

Most skydivers who kill themselves under canopy do so by doing exactly the wrong thing. Whuffos don't know enough to do exactly the wrong thing.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I thought observers got pilot-type rigs - single round canopy, one silver front-mounted ripcord handle, no steering
jt

It varies, I'd say. I've seen one that just puts on a suitably large AFF rig. Another used something smaller, sounds like what you describe. If we lost planes often, I think that would make more sense.

[NickDG 23]

Hey Bill, am I imagining I remember this . . .

Don't ask for a date it happened, or what kind of rig it was, but I vaguely recall a wuffo observer that intentionally followed out a ten-way. I’m thinking it was sometime in the early 1980s. The observer, a woman, said she wanted to take a picture of the exit and moved towards the door. Another jumper on the load thought something was up when she started to tuck the camera away, but he wasn’t fast enough, and out she went.

Someone on the ten way noticed her flailing around outside the formation and went over and dumped her. I guess she landed alright because a big part of the story was how unceremoniously she was kicked off the drop zone.

Nick D-8904