Would You Still Jump?

[NWFlyer 2]

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What some of those folks would jump in I didn't want to land an airplane in.

At Lost Prairie last year, I was coming back to the DZ in the afternoon after watching my friends' wedding at the brewery and deciding whether I wanted to get a couple afternoon jumps in (I'd been good and only had root beer to leave myself the option of still jumping). I sat up on the hill and watched the Otter pilot do a go-around because he was struggling to land. I said "Fuck that, I can't do go-arounds" and popped a beer.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[beowulf 1]

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(for the sake of argument, let's say 12 mph, gusting to 18)

For Skydive Dallas that would pretty good conditions. I would jump in that with out any problem. My tolerance for high winds is apparently much higher then others here on DZ.com. We have a lot of high wind days here.

[timbarrett 0]

Above 20 generally would be an issue but it depends a lot on where I am jumping and what other conditions prevail...
for example at 20 in Eloy in hot weather, with the threat of dust devils and the small grass area (yes I know there is plenty of desert but trying to hit the grass with considerable hazards around in the shape of hangers etc does up the risk), I would ride it down...whereas, say in the UK at Weston where you have a huge field designed for scattering paratroopers, I would probably push the limit a bit more...

"Work hard, play hard and don't whinge"

[livendive 8]

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Nice one! The sad thing is, it probably took you getting in that airplane and then getting back out to convince 'em that was the prudent course of action. If you'd declined to get in the plane at all, you'd have probably ended up doing what we all do...watch those without experience gain it. I wish they would get it through their heads that if I'm not getting in the airplane, it's not particularly wise for them either.

Blues,
Dave

Actually I've become somewhat of a walking "barometer of conditions" at this DZ. Much of the time when I choose to sit down, so do most of the experienced jumpers. (Several have been students of mine, so that may account for something.) But funnier than that, my full time co-workers often seem to wait for my call too, and they have as much or more experience than me. After landing in challenging conditions, I've now come to expect them to seek me out on our short van ride back to the hanger and ask "So, what do you think?"

Sounds like I could learn something about encouraging "cultural" behavoir. Any idea how you got your situation to be what it is?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rwieder 0]

I did it once, against the advice of a very experienced sky diver. She warned me at least three times not to jump. everything went fine until final when i landed next to the swoop pond at SDH and suddenly was picked up about 500' and moved to the power lines next to the road. I bout soiled myself, never again.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[Squeak 17]

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I did it once, against the advice of a very experienced sky diver. She warned me at least three times not to jump. everything went fine until final when i landed next to the swoop pond at SDH and suddenly was picked up about 500' and moved to the power lines next to the road. I bout soiled myself, never again.

Similar situation to myself, about 50 jumps, DZO said i was good to go, my former AFF instrcutor said "it's your call, but I am sitting down" I went up and got caught above a stand of trees, and going backwards
My former instructor came out and directed me to a safe place. I dont second guess gusty winds anymore.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[shropshire 0]

It depends.


Peer presure is a very powerful thing and however strong we think that we are and would say "No"... I'm not so sure

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[mjosparky 3]

Strong winds will put you where you don’t want to be. Gusty winds will put you where you don’t want to be but you will arrive out of control.

Remember we are never quite as good as we think we are.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[airtwardo 6]

. . . never quite as good as we think we are.

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Last time I heard that, the next thing I remember sayin' was:

"And that You Honor ...is when I killer her.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[bwilling 0]

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(for the sake of argument, let's say 12 mph, gusting to 18)

For Skydive Dallas that would pretty good conditions. I would jump in that with out any problem. My tolerance for high winds is apparently much higher then others here on DZ.com. We have a lot of high wind days here.

I think that brings up a good point, that it is at least somewhat relative! I too jump at SDD, and during some times of the year, 12 gusting to 18 is as good as it's going to get! If you can't handle those winds, you might not get to jump for months at a time, in otherwise really nice weather!

That said, we have a huge, wide open landing area, with plenty of available places to land to avoid potential turbulence off the buildings and hangers, which you absolutely have to pay attention to in winds even that high. My personal limits are much lower than some at SDD, but the DZ has a waiver for students to 16, and gusts to 18 are barely out of that range.

For me, if the tandems are standing down for winds, I'm definitely down too... and some days when they are jumping, I'm still not. I am definitely a wind wimp!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[JohnDeere 0]

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If you can't handle those winds, you might not get to jump for months at a time, in otherwise really nice weather!

That is no joke... including the last 2-3 mounths.

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I am definitely a wind wimp!

You are not the only one, i will be the first one to tell others they are crazy and to be carefull in gusty/high winds.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[danielcroft 2]

I'm a student still (3 jumps to go) and predictably would ride the plane down (I think it's fun ;)). When I get my A I'd ride down too. Tandems land in winds that most jumpers sit out at our DZ (Ranch) and we have some pretty serious turbulence depending on the direction of the wind.

Peer pressure certainly sucks but I'm usually walking back to the hangar before the radio tells me students are grounded. It's happened a couple of times actually. I remember walking out to the loading area with a couple of other students & a friend on the load. We got a heavy gust of wind across the LZ (thin & long), I just turned around and walked back in. The other students & my friend (low jump numbers) did too.

[BillyVance 34]

Depends on the max wind speed and the DZ I'm at. If it's a wide open DZ and max wind speed is no more than 20 mph, I'll likely jump. If it's a small DZ or a place I'm not familiar with, I'd be more apt to call 15 mph my limit, which is the demo limit.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[winsor 186]

I have scratched because of winds at all stages of the operation. I have yet to regret doing so.

On the way to the plane once, I looked at the way the wind sock was dancing and decided I would rather eat the ticket than jump. Operations were thereafter halted by the ambulance crew who had to tend with someone less timid than me.

I have pulled off some landings in squirrely conditions that could have gone to hell without warning, and I have been hurt when things went to hell. Getting hurt sucks.

If people who depend on the jump for their livelihood won't go, neither will I.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[fasted3 0]

I voted no. I have seen too many injuries happen, from students to very experienced people. I'm not saying they were or were not caused by wind, but it so happens that none of these occurred on days with nice weather.
Do I sit it out if it's not perfect? No, but I do keep that in mind, and am more willing to wait if it's borderline for my skill level. There is always another day, and I'd rather be jumping on that day than be sitting around wishing I could.

But what do I know?

[Butters 0]

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It's a windy day, winds are moderately high and gusty (for the sake of argument, let's say 12 mph, gusting to 18), but you decide it's within your comfort range and get on a full Otter load that's about half tandems and half fun jumpers.

That is a normal range (12 mph gusting to 18 mph) around here ... so I would jump (and did just the other day).

PS: If the tandems aren't jumping here then I'm not jumping.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Jumpah 0]

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I'm curious what influences peoples' decision-making on jumping or standing down in windy conditions, short of a total shutdown of DZ operations.

Other people are the best influence, financial concerns are also powerful. Very often when one person stands down others will as well. If the DZ doesn't refund when the person rides it down, that could coax someone into jumping who might not otherwise. I don't think the DZ should eat the cost of a jumper who made their own decision to board the plane but decided to ride it down.

[tmaricle55 0]

I like what is left of my legs... I don't mind watching from the ground.

Muff Brother # 3883, SCR # 14796 ICD # 1 - Pres.
Yeah, I noticed and I think it's funny!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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It depends.


Peer presure is a very powerful thing and however strong we think that we are and would say "No"... I'm not so sure

Yup.
I have been in a situation a few times lately where I would have done tandems, but someone else on the staff was not comfortable. My decision was to stand us all down. (I hope the DZO does not read this lol) It is important to recognize how powerful peer pressure is in marginal conditions.

[mrwrong 0]

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[replyTo be honest, if the jump leader would have bothered to step outside and meassure the wind speed to tell us the correct information BEFORE we took off I would have stayed on the ground.

I would just comment, don't depend on the jump leader to step outside and measure the wind speed. We are all responsible for our own safety & decisions. If winds are an issue, go evaluate them for yourself and tell the jump leader you need to stand down if that's the case.]

[fasted3 0]

Last Saturday was rainy in Mississippi. I made one WS flight which I stupidly landed out on early in the day. By the time I got my stuff back together it started looking kinda squirelly and I heard one guy say he wouldn't jump then. It wasn't bad, light wind, fairly steady, but clouds were building up and by the time I'd be jumping out, it might be raining. The guy is somebody I respect, with a lot of experience; I pulled off the load. Turned out they had a great skydive, and I was on the ground wishing, etc.
I pulled off the next one too, after it stopped raining. Three guys landed off; one got a bloody nose and gained experience.
Sunday was beautiful. I flew my ass off, and quickly forgot about the jumps I didn't make. As someone stated: nobody pays me to do this, and I'll never get hurt on a jump I don't make.
Disclaimor: I'm an old guy; I break too easy and take too long to heal up. You young folks have at it.

But what do I know?

[mamajumps 0]

I wont jump in any gusting winds over 10. Dont like the way it makes my canopy jump and dance around.

[fcajump 153]

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Hypotehtical based on an actual scenario I've witnessed (from the ground, where my conservative ass was already watching).

It's a windy day, winds are moderately high and gusty (for the sake of argument, let's say 12 mph, gusting to 18), but you decide it's within your comfort range and get on a full Otter load that's about half tandems and half fun jumpers.

About a minute out from jump run, the DZM radios up to the pilot and says "Winds have picked up, bring down the tandems." This information is conveyed to everyone on the plane, and fun jumpers are given the option of jumping or riding the plane back down.

Armed with this information, would you still jump?

I'm curious what influences peoples' decision-making on jumping or standing down in windy conditions, short of a total shutdown of DZ operations.

Been there, done both...
Comfort level with:
canopies (which rig am I using)
landing area
visibility (can only be a negative factor)
What was the wind determination that grounded the TI's (gust factor, turbulance or speed)


At that point, more than likely I come down with the plane, but not necessarily.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[Shark 0]

I love these kinda Q's!

My answer: NO!

While I do not care whether an up-jumper decides to jump in higher winds or not, if tandems aren't going, our plane is not flying, either.

I won't jump because I'm not as "experienced" as those who have stated they would. My ego doesn't need it. Besides, I jump everyday....

I'm also a new scuba instructor and have called dives because of strong currents. Regardless of the type of diving it's not worth the risk.

[icevideot 0]

From what you have stated, no. My experience has been that tandems often go when conditions are on the edge. When those running the business side (read "financial") are willing to eat the cost of a plane ride I am going to buckle up. I can't make an informed decision about landing conditions from altitude.

There have been times when I only went because I want everyone to be able to have video but there have also been times when they had to do without video.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."