Katana or Mamba???

[eli4247 0]

hello all. im interested in possibly purchasing one of these canopies. or another with a longer dive than i seem to be getting out of my samurai 135. Any input about these two canopies (or another) would be great. my wing loading is 1.7, and ive got hundreds of jumps on Samurai's.
Thanks

[tetra316 0]

I've never jumped a Mamba but have two Katanas. I absolutely love them! My goal is eventually to compete in swooping but I can still fly these conservatively if I want. I think its a great all around canopy but definitely a step up in performance than your all around general canopies like sabre 2s.

[DSE 3]

Not a swooping monster by any means, but my next canopy is a Katana. I have jumped em' both, and it's probably my PD bias, but I liked the Katana best. Plus, my DZO jumps one, as do a number of my friends.

[freeflye73 0]

Hi!
I own a samurai 136, and i have jumped a katana 135, personally i dont think there is any noticeable difference in dive between the samurai and the katana, i do have the samurai with hma lines and the new longer lineset, so i don't know how an older version of the samurai compare.
I'm also jumping a WL at 1:7.

[phoenixlpr 0]

How about demo them? Do you have swooping in mind? Mamba has quite a short recovery arc or at least shorter than Katana.

[AggieDave 6]

The Mamba is a decent canopy. Think of it as a stiletto that opens better.

The Katana is a no BS high performance canopy that is basically a Velocity minus. Whats the minus? The bottom end and go slow ability.

Demo both, decide what you like.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bomb420 1]

Neither... I jumped a Katana, Mamba and Crossfire2. I have to say hands down the Crossfire2 is the best out of those three. But its all personal preference. The Crossfire seemed a little detuned from the katana the first time I flew it. Then I realized that the katana was really hard to level out without killing my lift. Plus its piss poor at getting back from bad spots. From my memory, the fronts of the katana had no pressure, which sounds like a good idea until you realize its way to easy to kink the canopy way past its prime. I've had a ton of fun with the crossfire2 and highly recomend it.

I started realizing that I was looking at getting into a Katana for the name and marketing vs. a canopy that really worked for me, my style and current progression. Sit back and think why you want a Katana, I did and realized it was for ego. I love PD products, but the Katana was not for me.

You are at the same jump numbers when I made the switch. I demo'd all three, and got feedback from some of the worlds best canopy coaches. I highly suggest you at least demo them and figure out which one is the best for you. (As already suggested)

-Trunk

HYPOXIC

[DougH 270]

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The Mamba is a decent canopy. Think of it as a stiletto that opens better.

The Katana is a no BS high performance canopy that is basically a Velocity minus. Whats the minus? The bottom end and go slow ability.

Demo both, decide what you like.

A Stiletto that opens better? Sorry but I don't agree with that at all. The Mamba has a much longer recovery arc than a Stiletto, and considerably longer than a Crossfire 2 in my opinion.

Maybe it is my inexperience but I felt that the Mamba and Katana were similar in their recovery arcs and they way the both dove. Of course that is in the hands of a less experienced pilot, others might have a different take on it. ???
I loved the Katana too, but I didn't like the openings. The Mamba opens really well for me. I liked the toggle response better also.

I think the Katana takes the honors in distance though.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[AggieDave 6]

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Of course that is in the hands of a less experienced pilot, others might have a different take on it. ???

Who cares if you have 400 jumps or 40,000, your personal experience is still what you base your opinion on. It doesn't make your opinion necessarily more or less valid. Your experience with the Mamba is apparently better then mine. That's why I'm glad that there is more then one canopy on the market and more then one manufacture.

Personally I found the Mamba to have a shorter recovery arc then the XF2 but it didn't have the bottom end lift that the XF2 has. In terms of dive and responsiveness I really put it in the same class of canopy as the Stiletto. Not low performance, but not a super-high performance wing.

I jumped a XF2 for a couple of years. That's a hot canopy, opens well and flies very well. I just wish PD would have had an appropriately sized Katana (for me and my exit weight) available back then. After putting some jumps on a few different sized katana (135, 150, 170) I found that it is a very hot canopy. It is easy to get back from long spots if its flown right, it has a long recovery arc and a lot of bottom end for a non-x-braced.

Obviously I have an interest in PD doing well, so demo and make your own decisions.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tdog 0]

If they flew the same - I would take PD's customer service and quality control any day. 25% of my jumps were on Aerodyne products, I think the Diablo (discontinued) is a super fun canopy and love to borrow my friends for a change of pace, I hated my pilot (personal preference) and I did not like the (former) Aerodyne management at all, as their response to my concerns as a customer sucked. Sure, things might have changed since then, but PD has stayed true for the long run and I know they will be around tomorrow to service me.

I have not flown the Mamba, nor seen one up close. However, it would have to be MUCH better or MUCH cheaper for ME to switch over from my PD brand loyalty. It is why I drive the car I do... There have been some other SUVs on the market I think looked sexy, but my SUV has 117,000 miles and I can't even get the first set of brakes to wear out.

I give my money to the people who treat me well, just my style. I am willing to trade some performance for customer support.

P.S. I love my Katana. I load mine a wimpy 1.45 to 1. I flew CrEW with an 20 jump student on his large docile lightly loaded canopy today - then whiped a toggle and lost 1,000 feet so I could land and watch him land. I also stayed up close to a guy with a sub 100sqft canopy loaded 2 to 1.

The range is awesome. I see my friends on Crossfires sometimes outglide me, but I can get from point A to point B faster than them too, which is important when you like playing with your friends in the sky and they are all over the place.

[damion75 0]

There are a lot of opinions out there!! And that is all they are. The best advice on this thread is to try them all. I made exactly this same decision early last year and demo'd them all...

The Mamba I tried as a 117 and had a blast. The openings are sweet, although flying in brakes that deep needs some practice! I loved its speed of harness turn and the dive, which seemed to be to be greater than both of the other two, but that may be the slight size difference. And this canopy is fast in a straight line. Coming in (straight in) it seemed a lot faster than the other two. The toggle pressure is higher than the other two, but I liked the feedback that that gave me. Hands down, this is the canopy I would have chosen, but it had a 12 week lead time and I didn't want to wait!

The Katana (120) is a nice all rounder. Nice openings, good dive, responsive turns etc. It's fun, but not as fun as the Mamba. It is, however, a very solid canopy with good resale value! I managed to find one second hand and went with that.

The Crossfire2 (119) I was a little disappointed with. Beautiful openings for sure, and very predictable flight characteristics but it really lacked the feel of a high performance canopy for me. It was a nice canopy, but then so is a Sabre2 or a Pilot. It just didn't provide what I was looking for.

These are all opinions, and I have no doubt that YMMV!

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[DougH 270]

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Of course that is in the hands of a less experienced pilot, others might have a different take on it. ???

Who cares if you have 400 jumps or 40,000, your personal experience is still what you base your opinion on. It doesn't make your opinion necessarily more or less valid.

Thank you Dave. The point I was trying to make was that people with different experince levels have different base lines that they use to judge things.
Go from a Manta to a Pilot at 30 jumps and it is extreeeeeeeeeeeme!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[deadbug 0]

I have been flying my Katana 107 at 2.0 for about 3 years and love it. I think that if you want to get real performance out of this wing it flys best at a wingloading of 1.7-2.0. I have a few jumps on the 97 at 2.2 and I thought the bottom end flare suffered quite a bit. I haven't jumped the Mamba, but did consider it. I just couldn't get my hands on a demo. PD shipped me a demo Katana ASAP, and when they made the decision to go with HMA lines I was all over it. No regrets.

Doug

[ficus 0]

I put about 50 jumps each on a Katana 135 and a Mamba 132 (@ 1.4ish) before deciding to go with the Mamba.

Some impressions:

The recovery arc is very similar between the two canopies. Whoever said the Mamba is like a Stiletto that opens better, I don't know what canopy you actually jumped, but I did my 90 from 300 ft on both canopies at only 1.4.

I found the openings on the Katana to be better. The Mamba would very frequently spin me around 360 degrees, open really fast and slam me, or both. (200ish jumps later on the Mamba, this seems to have gone away. I don't know if it beat itself into trim or what, but I have a second one that is much newer and it also misbehaves on me from time to time.)

The Mamba is much twitchier on the toggles and I got more out of the harness on it.

Why I chose the Mamba over the Katana, in brief: the rears.

The balance between front and rear riser pressure on the Katana is terrible, IMO. The fronts have "power steering": you can hold down on them all day long. But the rears are like pulling on steel bands. I found them much harder to meter when I had to yank on them so hard to get anything out of them.

In contrast, the rears on the Mamba are excellent. A decent amount of pressure, but tons and tons of feedback. They tell you well in advance that a stall is coming. I feel really confident on the rears on my Mamba. It's just a much better balanced canopy.


Cliffs Notes: Mamba opens poorly (maybe?), but once it has opened, it flies great, you can be on the rears forever and ever. Katana opens all right, rear riser swooping is like doing a pull-up.

[Remster 24]

Ficus: friends who jump the mamba say that to help with the openings, they go completely go relax and loose after pitching the PC; they just hang in the harness and let the canopy sort itself out.

Remster

[billvon 2,426]

I prefer the Katana to the Mamba. The Mamba is VERY twitchy after opening/before brake release, and I don't like that. Once the brakes are released it's fine though. In terms of recovery arc Katana wins hands down.

Both canopies are pretty ground-hungry compared to the Samurai, so make sure your out-landing skills are up to the challenge (and/or get better at spotting!)

[jacketsdb23 45]

maybe fire your packer?

I'm also very interested in the comment about the mamba having sweet openings. I have about 8 jumps on the same mamba Ficus owns (@ ~1.55) and I found the opening to be terrible everytime. Granted, I was used to a safire2 opening at the time and now jump a crossfire2. Maybe I should fire my packer too.

But seriously, Damion75, you said you liked the openings. What was the loading on the mamba you jumped? Did you do anything "special" with the pack job? Just curious.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[DougH 270]

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Cliffs Notes: Mamba opens poorly (maybe?), but once it has opened, it flies great, you can be on the rears forever and ever.

Ficus, I don't know if you remember me but we talked about your Mamba by the Aerodyne tent at the Holiday Boogie.

I still find it interesting that you have had such bad luck with the Mamba openings, that is 180* from my experince. (pun intended).

Every size mamba that I have flown, from the 150 to the 124, new and used demos, have opened nicely and almost allways on heading.
In my experince don't look at it, it doesn't like to be looked and, and do the rag doll thing like another poster suggested. My friend Les on the other hand steers the openings, but that has given me nothing but trouble.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[ficus 0]

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Ficus: friends who jump the mamba say that to help with the openings, they go completely go relax and loose after pitching the PC; they just hang in the harness and let the canopy sort itself out.

This worked great when I had the Katana, and I thought it might work with the Mamba as well.

But the really problematic openings with the Mamba are very fast. It doesn't snivel and seek around like the Katana (or the videos I've seen of Velocity openings). Most of the deceleration happens immediately and then the canopy takes off.

[ficus 0]

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Ficus, I don't know if you remember me but we talked about your Mamba by the Aerodyne tent at the Holiday Boogie.

I still find it interesting that you have had such bad luck with the Mamba openings, that is 180* from my experince. (pun intended).

Every size mamba that I have flown, from the 150 to the 124, new and used demos, have opened nicely and almost allways on heading.
In my experince don't look at it, it doesn't like to be looked and, and do the rag doll thing like another poster suggested. My friend Les on the other hand steers the openings, but that has given me nothing but trouble.

I do remember our conversation and you showing me the video of your most recent opening (which you must have looked at ). I have had openings like those and they are very nice, if all too rare, but it seems to happen at random.

I've tried letting the nose hang (my usual), tucking it in, and rolling it. None of those things seem to stop the thing from giving me a spanking. I am tempted to try a slider pocket.

I often have 12 pounds of camera helmet on my head and almost never watch my opening.

[DougH 270]

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(which you must have looked at ). I have had openings like those and they are very nice, if all too rare, but it seems to happen at random.

HAHA, I do it now and then.

I am curious if it opens poorly on hop and pops as well?

Have you ever called Karl or some one else at Aerodyne and looked into the size of the slider? I wonder if the earlier Mambas had smaller sliders, or if yours is the wrong size. My slider is very large.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[ficus 0]

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I am curious if it opens poorly on hop and pops as well?

With a 5 second delay the openings are awesome. Soft and comfortable but not too slow, and on heading.

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Have you ever called Karl or some one else at Aerodyne and looked into the size of the slider? I wonder if the earlier Mambas had smaller sliders, or if yours is the wrong size. My slider is very large.

I talked to Karl in Eloy and he was going to observe my pack job and see if he noticed anything, but I was running around all day and ran out of daylight. Measuring the slider is an interesting idea.

Eli, sorry for hijacking your thread...

[ficus 0]

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The Mamba is a decent canopy. Think of it as a stiletto that opens better.

The Katana is a no BS high performance canopy that is basically a Velocity minus. Whats the minus? The bottom end and go slow ability.

I've heard from many people that the Katana is a "Velocity trainer" or something along those lines.

The guy who I bought the Mambas from has moved to Velocities. He said that the Mamba was great preparation because it flew almost exactly like the Velo, but slower. He had the same impressions of the Katana that I did (fronts too light, rears way too heavy).

Disclaimer: I've got around 250 Mamba jumps, 50 Katana jumps, and 0 Velocity jumps. But am I missing something?

[eli4247 0]

well thanks guys for all the responses.
i am interested in getting better swoops hence the need for a longer recovery arc. ive demoed the mamba and did notice a much longer recovery arc than my sams. i guess what i need to do is just demo the three crossfire,mamba and katana.. then go from there.
Thanks again

[damion75 0]

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maybe fire your packer?

I'm also very interested in the comment about the mamba having sweet openings. I have about 8 jumps on the same mamba Ficus owns (@ ~1.55) and I found the opening to be terrible everytime. Granted, I was used to a safire2 opening at the time and now jump a crossfire2. Maybe I should fire my packer too.

But seriously, Damion75, you said you liked the openings. What was the loading on the mamba you jumped? Did you do anything "special" with the pack job? Just curious.

It depends very much on what you are looking for from a canopy. I was jumping a 117 loaded about 1.8ish and my experience was that if you let it open itself, and not try to fly it etc, the opening was quite fast, but smooth and invariably on heading.

After opening, as Billvon said, it would take off in response to any harness input at all (hence my comment about very deep brakes earlier) which on the first two or three jumps I found unsettling, but after that I got to really like since it becomes possible to really effectively steer with harness only as an immediate response to finding anynone flying towards you, or just to point the canopy back at the DZ while you collapse the slider etc.

Is that a good thing? Well it depends how in touch you are with your canopy. And the truth is that (with all the best will in the world) these canopies (Katanas and Mambas) were just not aimed at pilots with 300-400 jumps and they are not designed to be most effective when loaded at less than 1.6.

I don't mean to be a canopy nazi here, but if what you are looking for is a gentle, forgiving canopy with easy to handle openings that will fly itself to a nice little swoop, these are not those canopies.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.