Pilot fwd speed

[rynodigsmusic 0]

I have read alot of threads in the past few weeks and up until I talked to one of my instructors was pretty sold on the pilot for a first canopy. He basically told me that it was crap and had little fwd speed. I didnt buy into the crap part because I was able to do my own research thanks to these forums, however, I trust his opinion very much so it is very important that I get true, reliable opinions from you all specifically about the forward speed. I will definitely try one out but there is no way for me to do that at my dz as everyone there seems sold on the PD or Icarus canopys. Also would be nice to hear some info on the smart reserve?? I am loaded at almost exactly 1:1 and I have 40 jumps. Thanks for reading, any reply will do.

"We didn't start the fire"

[Joellercoaster 6]

I can only give you the perspective of someone buying a novice/intermediate sized canopy, but since that's exactly what you're buying if your profile is correct, I guess that's fine.

I flew a Sabre2 190 and a Pilot 188, both loaded pretty much at 1:1 at the time. To my untrained eye they flew at the same speed - both, faster than a Spectre.

Your guy may have more finely honed senses and be able to tell because of his years of flying mid-performance canopies, but if you won't notice the difference, then there is no difference.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[rynodigsmusic 0]

thanks for the reply. You didnt notice a problem in flare upon landing then?? I have flown the S2 and love its flying characteristics but I am not too impressed with the openings. Although, I guess if it opens at all we're in good shape. Have you gotten to fly some of the icarus canopys?? Safire?? I flew the Triathalon and all I could think was "wow, amazing openings, but a little hot coming in with a full flare" did anyone notice that at all?

"We didn't start the fire"

[chopchop 0]

Hi there.. I have about 600 jumps on Pilot 140s loaded about 1.9:1. Forward speed is going to be different depending on wingloading. I very much enjoyed my Pilots and think they are a fantastic beginner / intermediate canopy. Jump one and I'm sure you'll agree. As far as the SMART reserve. I had 2 reserve rides on my 135s and they flew great and landed softly. I have had 3 previous reserve rides all on PDs. Both reserves, in my limited experience, work fine.

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[feuergnom 22]

with 40 jumps you are going to love every canopy you are going to get your fingers on. and please don't be upset if i tell you that you will not recognise the finer differences between similar canopies for the next 100 jumps other than one might be a bit twitchier than the other

as most canopies have a glide-ratio about 2,5:1 there won't be differences in fwd speed unless you put more load on them. so i have absolutely no idea how anyone could come up with a statement like that

as mentioned before: pilots are great beginner canopies. if i had to buy a new canopy, it'd be a pilot

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[brabzzz 0]

Disclaimer: Piloting skill, packing ability, judgement and impartiality not constant over the years...

I jumped a Sabre 2 170 for a few hundred jumps and a Pilot 150 for the last hundred. Loved both.

I know they're not comparable as the sizes are different, but both are great. Every jump on the Pilot has been a tip-toe landing with no run-off. Windy as hell, crosswinds and no wind at all - all at a high alti DZ. Front riser it and it'll carry you for a while too.

I've had more luck with on heading openings with the pilot and nicer landinds. But, i can't pack for shit (so maybe just luck) and i'm more experienced than i was when on the Sabre 2.

For a first canopy, both are great. The retard-proof coloured packing tabs put the Pilot ahead in my book. If you're getting it custom, get a bright, lurid, neon, blindingly bright one. It'll be more visible to the dude in freefall above you and the twat about to tangle their canopy into yours...


Stay safe.

---------------------------------------
Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com

[GravityGirl 0]

That's funny.

The forward speed is NOT notably different.

The glide is flatter on the Pilot. You will cover more distance on it. Perhaps this affects "perceived forward speed".

They have a quick recovery arch. In other words they recover from a turn quicker. If you are trying to increase speed for landing (hook turn), then this is not a desirable quality. If you are looking for a forgiving first canopy, this IS a desirable quality.

The openings are really nice.

If you are looking for the downside to the Pilot vs. PD or Icarus:

The fabric is a bit more slick when brand new. So don't try to stuff it into the smallest possible rig.

The lines wear faster than those on the Sabre2. I have found that the lower steering lines need to be replaces after about 150- 200 jumps. The good news is that is an inexpensive item. Also they show wear before shrinkage, so it's more obvious when they need to be changed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[woodpecker 0]

I jump a pilot 150 (1:1 WL) and absolutely love it. Openings are awsome, recovery arc is awsome, as bonnie said it does cover a lot of ground so it takes a few jumps to get your landings (area) dialed in..but awsome. Are we seeing a pattern here?

As for foward speed...its not terribly quick but you can slide out a landing if you want (no risers). I jumped saturday and did a simple approach, flared and surfed (if you want to actually call it that) about 4 feet. Fun as hell too.

Only thing I hate about my pilot is YES...its slicker than snot and a bitch to pack. Not impossible, just takes a little practice.


Hope this helps.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[billvon 2,417]

The Pilot/Safire 2/Sabre 2 are all quite similar in terms of forward speed. I tend towards the Pilot because of the openings, but I put a few hundred jumps on a Safire 2 and liked it a lot. Right now we own 3 Pilots between Amy and I - a 140 that Amy uses as her main canopy, a Pilot 117 that I have in my second rig and a Pilot 150 that I use for bigways/wingsuits.

[ChrisL 2]

My last 4 canopies in order:

Sabre2 210
Sabre2 190
Pilot 210
Pilot 188 (current)

The Pilot 188 is my current main. I have only had it for about 8 jumps
so far but is hands down my favorite.

Its a a pleasure to fly and is just as fast as the Sabre2

I have no idea why your instructor woulds say such a thing.

The Pilot is a great canopy, while he may be very knowledgable about may things, the Pilot is not one of them.

__

My mighty steed

[Fab 0]

well...try before you buy. I'm sure you'll be able to demo a pilot somewhere or have one shipped to you by aerodyne or something. I made my first 200+ jumps on a pilot 168 and it is actually a very nice canopy. It has a very shallow glide compared to a PD (sabre2). It is a very nice chute to start with at 40 jumps and I'm sure you will be able to have fun with it. It's forgiving but still very responsive if you want it to be. It's just as good as a PD or Icarus. Maybe even better then Icarus as I have seen one Saffire2 tear itself to bits on opening ...

I also have a smart reserve which I was also able to demo once. Nice canopy,reliable...good solid flight charateristics..sweet fast opening.

Smart is a good choice for a reserve...so is PD of course.

_______________________________________

[tdog 0]

I put 400 jumps last year on a Pilot and found it to be a nice canopy...

400 jumps...

25+ wingsuit - rest fun jumps, AFF instructor jumps, coach jumps, 4 way or larger group jumps, etc...

3 major line twists (like 6 times or more)
2 hard openings (where marks were left where the harness attaches at different points)
0 malfunctions - although one of the line twists could have been very easily.
1 Landing out where others in my group made it back
3 Landing in where others in my group did not.


Tame wing loading 1.2 ish

Ask your instructor who bashes the Pilot - how many jumps he has on his...

[rynodigsmusic 0]

didnt want to leave you all in the dark, but I had to go do some things...Just wanted to say that it is nice to hear from you all first hand on questions that I have. I will try to contact aerodyne soon and see if they will let me demo...The problem is that I do not have a rig yet and I believe putting a demo canopy into a rented rig is probably prohibited at my dz but I will find out for sure. I just wanted to thank you all for your time and your honest responses...Love to live, Live to Fly, Ryan

"We didn't start the fire"

[phoenixlpr 0]

It's a perfect canopy except you want to swoop.

[tdog 0]

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didnt want to leave you all in the dark, but I had to go do some things...Just wanted to say that it is nice to hear from you all first hand on questions that I have. I will try to contact aerodyne soon and see if they will let me demo...The problem is that I do not have a rig yet and I believe putting a demo canopy into a rented rig is probably prohibited at my dz but I will find out for sure. I just wanted to thank you all for your time and your honest responses...Love to live, Live to Fly, Ryan

If your DZ is a dealer, and you will promise to buy your gear thru them, you should be able to say, "I want to buy a Pilot or XXX and a container from you. I am going to put in my container order now for an XXX sized 9 cell, but I want to demo a few first. Can I get a demo canopy and put it in one of your containers?" If you are buying used - find a friend at the DZ who has a rig about the same sized as you need for the demo... I have jumped a lot of friend's rigs.

[Joellercoaster 6]

Quote

You didnt notice a problem in flare upon landing then??

The Pilot and Sabre2 did land differently. The Pilot seemed to have a much longer toggle stroke, which meant I felt like I had much finer control over the degree of flare as I came in to land.

I only have 50-odd Pilot landings so far, but the only times they haven't been standup have been a stupid downwinder, and the time I landed it in a ditch

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[TrickyDicky 0]

I have ~ 300 jumps on a sabre 1 170 (my first rig)
~5 jumps on a sabre 2 150
and ~20 jumps on a piot 150 (my new rig).

When test jumping the pilot vs sabre 2 I found, as has been said, the pilot has a flatter glide angle and so goes further. I mainly noticed this on my first jumps by overshooting where I intended to land by quite a bit.

Also, you cant "dig" a pilot out of a late flare as much as you can a sabre2 and so its less responsive to quick deep flares, which is what is often done on older student kit. You may find the sabre easier to land when you first start jumping it.

The dealer who I borrowed the pilot off to test jump said former sabre jumpers tend to flare late on their first few jumps on a pilot because of this (I even did it myself)

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[Feeblemind 1]

Quote

I have read alot of threads in the past few weeks and up until I talked to one of my instructors was pretty sold on the pilot for a first canopy. He basically told me that it was crap and had little fwd speed. I didnt buy into the crap part because I was able to do my own research thanks to these forums, however, I trust his opinion very much so it is very important that I get true, reliable opinions from you all specifically about the forward speed. I will definitely try one out but there is no way for me to do that at my dz as everyone there seems sold on the PD or Icarus canopys. Also would be nice to hear some info on the smart reserve?? I am loaded at almost exactly 1:1 and I have 40 jumps. Thanks for reading, any reply will do.

Disclaimer - I am bo no means an instructor or gear expert.

I demoed alot of canopies before I finally settled on the pilot. I will not make ill comments on other canopies because IMHO a canopy is a very personal choice.

I bought a Pilot 210 as my 1st canopy after trying a triathalon, sabre2 and a fusion (could not get a safire2, no demo available at the time). Each canopy had little issues of their own but the forward speed was very similar/ I bought the pilot due to the fact the openings were far better for me and the landing charateristics were what I desired. Once I recieved my canopy I spent the first 10 jumps setting the brake lines.

I put 300 jumps on my 210 then downsized during the winter to a 188. I set the brakes in the same manner as the 210. I have 2oo jumps on the 188 all with standup landings, I have had to run out a few down winders, but the canopy has a strong bottom end.

As Bonnie mentioned it does have a fast recovery arc, I am currently doing front riser approaches with the occasional 90 degree front riser turn without issue.

One thing I will mention is that lighter WL the front riser pressure is significant.

It is up to you, but $50 (most manufatures I contacted)to demo a canopy for a weekend or two. This will provide opportunities for you to see what canopy YOU prefer, it's you butt hanging below the main, get what you want.


Phil

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[karlm 0]

Ryan

I have PM'd you in this regard.

Blue Skies

Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there.

[freakyrat 1]

Hey Ryan

I PM'd you concerning the Pilot. The Pilot is really an excellent canopy. I have flown a 124 loaded at 1.6 and every opening has been gentle and on heading. The canopy flies nice and is really easy to land. These are all qualities you want in a canopy.

What others said about the late flares is correct. I have occasionally been late on the flare but I just pushed lower on the toggles and the canopy actually set me down nice. The canopy is very easy to land in a hot no-wind situation.

Obtain a demo and give one a try.


Chris

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Again, thank you all for your responses!! There is a skyfest next week and I belive aerodyne might be there. I will try to demo there and if not, A rep has already gotten in touch with me about the demo situation. Thats pretty cool if you ask me, that they even give a damn about a new jumper with such a low jump number and experience level...this is one of the things that I really love about this sport...comradarie. Again, thanks, Ryan

"We didn't start the fire"

[brianemerson 0]

Ryan,

I jump at spaceland and will be at skyfest and I jump a pilot 210. You are more than welcome to jump my kit to try out the pilot.

[brabzzz 0]

Quote

...A rep has already gotten in touch with me about the demo situation. Thats pretty cool if you ask me, that they even give a damn about a new jumper with such a low jump number and experience level...

lol, yep. That, and the fact that you're in the market for a $1500 canopy, at the start of your career and have no 'impressions', 'prejudices' or brand loyalty yet, and they'd really like to create some positive ones that might filter down to your 2nd, 3rd, .. 10th rig buy!

No bad thing though, it's only gonna help one person - you. Make the most of any and every demo programme you can. You wouldn't buy a car without a test drive...

I like my Pilot.

---------------------------------------
Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com

[GQ_jumper 4]

It's a perfect canopy except you want to swoop.

Quote

I disagree with that, for the level canopy it is the Pilot can be quite the swoop monster if you dial it in right.

to the original poster, in my 250 jumps on a pilot I've had 3 bad openings, one was completely my fault, line twists one time, and every once in a while it'll go off heading on opening but never bad, and you can feel it coming when it wants to turn and compensate ahead of time. I always love my landings on that canopy, I was so happy with it I just bought another one when I downsized.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

• Quote

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I disagree with that, for the level canopy it is the Pilot can be quite the swoop monster if you dial it in right.

A canopy with a positive recovery arc is never be a swoop moster. High front riser pressure and short recovery arc is not what a swooper wants. This statement is for Pilots under WL1.6. I have not tried on higher loads.