Audible or Visible?

[katzurki 0]

Suppose you can only have one height-tracking device to go along with your eyes, and that is either an audible or a visible altimeter (let's say Neptune both cases to make it simple).

Which you would go?

[koppel 3]

Weeeeeeelllll, there i was doing a Midnight Jump on New Years Eve this year, One Neptune on my hand the other on my goggles. Turn and track at 6 grand check alti and .....

.....the light goes out on my alti Neptune as I read 5.1 Arrgghh!! I'm expecting to hear my other go off in my ear at the same time set at 5 for when i do TM's H/C.....Nothing!!

Look at the flare on the ground estimate 10 seconds and pull. Alti light comes back on 2.7 Phew. Organise my flare holder, light it and land safely shortly after.

My advice is go visual and go mechanical, no more techno gizmo's for me on night jumps

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[MB38 0]

Visible, but if I could only have one device I'd want a mechanical altimeter.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[riggermick 6]

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Suppose you can only have one height-tracking device to go along with your eyes, and that is either an audible or a visible altimeter (let's say Neptune both cases to make it simple).

Which you would go?

Skydiving has a long and checkersd history regarding altitude remaning vs: elapsed. There is absoultly no subsititute for "eye balls". The most respected and always trusted instrument to augment the "ol' eye ball" is the mechanical barometric analog altimeter. Even if it's not 100% accurate down to the last foot it will let you know how close you are to "bottoming out". Remember your eye ball's are the thing you rely on everyday to do everything you've ever done with regard to time and motion. What would YOU rather rely on when you life is at stake? For me and my peers it's analog/ barometric. Ultimitly it's your call.

Mick.

[labrys 0]

I'd rather have the audible if I had to choose. I'm becoming more and more reliant on my eyes to let me know what altitude I'm at now. I trust them more than I trust mechanical or digital devices.

If I'm going to lose altitude awareness I don't think it matters if I'm losing it because I'm not looking at the ground or my wrist. Something else is at play.

There's a chance that the audible could alert me to the loss of awareness. I wouldn't count on it but I think that once altitude awareness is lost the audible may help.

Owned by Remi #?

[slotperfect 7]

If all I had was a Neptune, I would use it as a visual altimeter. Visuals are always my first priority, with the audible(s) as a backup.

My $0.02

Arrive Safely

John

[woodpecker 0]

Visual.....even though I had one fail on me.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[labrys 0]

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Visual.....even though I had one fail on me.

The original post asks which type of alti you would want in addition to the best visual you have already (your eyes).

If you can't use your primary visual indicator (your eyes) for some reason, what good would a mechanical or digital visual indicator do?

I voted audible for that reason. Why would I assume I'm going to look at my wrist when I'm not looking at the ground for some reason?

Owned by Remi #?

[yamtx73 0]

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Suppose you can only have one height-tracking device to go along with your eyes, and that is either an audible or a visible altimeter (let's say Neptune both cases to make it simple).

Which you would go?

Visible, definitely...

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

[labrys 0]

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Visible, definitely...

Share your reasoning, please.

Owned by Remi #?

[yarpos 4]

visible alti

eyes + visible alti, for me, creates best awareness

dytter is a (good) passive back up

(PS having said that, I had my one and only alti fail on a night jump...in pre audible days...funny feeling looking at your alti in freefall and thinking hmmmm that said 7 grand last time I looked at it..arrrghhh!)

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[MB38 0]

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The original post asks which type of alti you would want in addition to the best visual you have already (your eyes).

If you can't use your primary visual indicator (your eyes) for some reason, what good would a mechanical or digital visual indicator do?

The issue here is what was stated earlier in the thread. Yes, most people's eyes aren't accurate down to the foot... but for many of us [glances at jump numbers] they are only accurate within about 3,000 feet. Eyes are great at telling when you're bottoming out, but I'll be damned if I could figure out 5,000 vs. 3,500 in a pinch.

That said, I could figure out 3,000 and below pretty quickly... because everything's bigger than what I usually see when I'm waiting for my risers to hit my hands. But if I burn through my breakoff altitude and my audible fails, I may not know it. If I'm looking at my altimeter and it's reading 8,000 feet for the fourth time, it's time to stare at the ground and figure out where I am.

That's my own personal reasoning behind choosing a visual altimeter over an audible. However, I've never been so into a jump that I forgot to look at my wrist. I understand that if I forget to look at my wrist I'm just as screwed as I would be otherwise... and a functional audible would take the cake here.

The moral for me is to wear both.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[GravityGirl 0]

Visual. I broke my visual alti this weekend. I jumped my audible only. But when the clouds rolled in and I had a chance of getting caught in the industrial haze, I sat out. I didn't want to be in the air if my eyes could not tell me where the ground was.

Also, in the event of a malfunction, it's handy to know where you are at.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[woodpecker 0]

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visible alti

eyes + visible alti, for me, creates best awareness

dytter is a (good) passive back up

(PS having said that, I had my one and only alti fail on a night jump...in pre audible days...funny feeling looking at your alti in freefall and thinking hmmmm that said 7 grand last time I looked at it..arrrghhh!)

Exaclty why I still have a visible and would prefer it over an audible if I could choose just one. When I see the needle has moved, it just assures me...and in this sport, do whatever makes YOU comfortable and feel SAFE (or as safe as one can make it). I never said I didnt use my eyes as well.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[yamtx73 0]

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Visible, definitely...

Share your reasoning, please.

I prefer being able to look at the dial of my mechanical analog than rely on the batteries in an audible mounted in the helmet. Ideally I would use both but if I had to use only 1 I'd use the mechanical.

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

[labrys 0]

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I prefer being able to look at the dial of my mechanical analog than rely on the batteries in an audible mounted in the helmet.

In my opinion, that's a very reasonable personal choice. I'm not trying to argue that my choice of audile as a backup is better per se, but I did frame my decision around the fact that the question asked about a Neptune.

If the batteries fail, the batteries fail. It doesn't matter whether you're using it as an audible or visible. And if I have to rely on it in that case I'd rather be using my eyes. I'll admit that my answer would probably have been different 200 or even 100 jumps ago or on a night jump where I don't have the visual cues I'm accustomed to.

Owned by Remi #?

[darkwing 4]

A nice wrist mounted visual altimeter is not only readable by you, but by others.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[MarcusS 0]

Hmmm.. Having just gone through the stages of buying my own gear, and having made the same decision, I spoke to many and heard both sides of the arguement. I then did one of my last jumps on rented kit (using a well known mechanical alti). The jump went like this.... 14k exit, check alti 12K, check alti 10k, check alti 9k, check alti 9k......hang on didn't it say that last time I looked....must have been mistaken so carry on.....check alti 9k!!! Holy Sh1t, time to pull. After deployment I looket at the alti again and it still said 9k, but whilst I was looking shot down to 4500.

As a result I went to the local shop and bought an analogue wrist mounted AND a helmet together with a protrack....best of both worlds. Cost a fortune, but that's what credit cards are for!

[pilotdave 0]

I'd say a visual altimeter. I have serious doubts when I hear people say how well they can judge altitude with just their eyes. Maybe under ideal conditions at a familiar DZ, but change the conditions and it's a whole different story. An audible can tell you your altitude up to about 6 times (neptune with swoop mode). It tells you nothing when you're not at one of the pre-set altitudes. And it only tells you which preset you're at, not what altitude you're at. Ever had yours set for the wrong altitude?

During a malfunction, a night jump, a jump over snow covered ground, a jump where the plans change at a particular altitude, etc, I'd much rather know where I am and not rely on my eyes completely. It's also VERY easy to get dependent on an audible without realizing how dependent you are. Ever have your audible fail when you can't just break off when everyone else does?

I've had my neptune battery die on a night RW jump (my fault, I knew it was getting low) when it was my only altimeter (visual). After that, I went back to a glow stick on a mechanical altimeter for night jumps and put the neptune back where it belongs... in my helmet, as an extra backup.

Dave

[darnknit 0]

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If you can't use your primary visual indicator (your eyes) for some reason, what good would a mechanical or digital visual indicator do?

I voted audible for that reason.

if i were in a position where i could not judge altitude with my eyes using either the ground or a fancy barometer, i would give an EXTREMELY aggressive wave off and then pull. that would make the audible superfluous.

visual altimiters give you the luxury of knowing how much time is left before break-off, or pull time, or decision altitude. an audible is just a different version of a mall directory, it only tells you, "YOU ARE HERE".

blue stuff,
p.j.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[CygnusX-1 42]

If all I had to choose from is a Neptune, I would trade it with someone on the DZ for a Protrack (audible). Of the jumps I have had using both devices:

Neptune screwing up: 7 times.
Protrack screwing up: 0 times.

I'm getting real good at landing without the use of a visual altimeter. Thanks Alti-2.

[nate_1979 9]

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.....the light goes out on my alti Neptune as I read 5.1 Arrgghh!! I'm expecting to hear my other go off in my ear at the same time set at 5 for when i do TM's H/C.....Nothing!!

Look at the flare on the ground estimate 10 seconds and pull. Alti light comes back on 2.7 Phew. Organise my flare holder, light it and land safely shortly after.

My advice is go visual and go mechanical, no more techno gizmo's for me on night jumps

I've used two different neptunes (at different times) on my night jumps, and I have never had an issue... If you had your alarms set for 5k, and it died around 5.1k, I would be willing to guess that you had your audible alarms turned on on the neptune you were using for a visual. If your alarms and backlight are both turned on at the same time, the unit will freak out , seems battery cant supply that much juice. I do believe that this is in the manual.

If you didnt have the audibles set, well, that sucks

general comment,
I also wear a neptune for an audible, had no problems with that or the protrack that i also wear..

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[labrys 0]

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During a malfunction, a night jump, a jump over snow covered ground, a jump where the plans change at a particular altitude, etc, I'd much rather know where I am and not rely on my eyes completely. It's also VERY easy to get dependent on an audible without realizing how dependent you are. Ever have your audible fail when you can't just break off when everyone else does?

This post and several others have made a lot of great points and have caused me to re-think my first answer. Having the visual does seem like the better overall choice.

Owned by Remi #?

[brianfry713 0]

Never use both the audible alarms and backlight in the Neptune. It seems like the menu should warn you of this.

Neptune night jump info:
http://www.alti-2.com/Neptune_Owners_Pages/night_jump.htm

I had the same think happen to me on my first night jump. The audible will still sound, but the backlight will turn off when the audible is sounding.

BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI
USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative

[ncfitzge 0]

Well you can't always go off of "the needle is moving". Because one time at band camp, I heard this story about a student that kept looking at his alti and it would read 10,000 each time. So he kept on tracking along and the instructor zooms over and pulls for him. Turns out the student went past his deck by about 2,000 ft. He lands on the ground and starts talking about his near death experience.

Sound familiar Woody? And you say your eyes work well.

I forgot to add, the alti read zero on the ground.

#148 Sonic Scrat
"Have you ever kissed a rabbit between the eyes?" Woodpecker pulling out his pants pockets to the waitress