Elsinore vs Perris for AFF

[aubma 0]

First off, greetings all! This is my first post and here's to hoping I love AFF so not my last!

I realize there are a few posts about this and have done the reading, but I am interested in a more personal answer. Some quick background - I have done 2 tandems at Perris. I liked everyone I spoke with - TMs/other employees/the general public. Everyone was extremely kind and pleasant. However, I have read more than once on here that Elsinore is more family-oriented, which is commonly what I seek out and prefer. I gladly opt for smaller but closer than bigger and more enabling (either from more loads, more instructors, or any other option). Because of this, I lean towards Elsinore for the AFF.

I am going to Austin, TX in a couple of weeks to visit friends and family and planning a tandem in coupland (we were going to go to San Marcos but my mom's friends said that was not a good place to go - research as to why has come up with nothing - any words of experience?) with some friends there. Also, I am talking about doing a tandem jump in the Santa Barbara area with a coworker. I want to get an idea of other DZs before I sign up for the AFF, so I like doing more tandems to get a better idea of how DZs differ. Also, I plan on doing some wind tunell time at Perris before I do the AFFs (my last tandem, I tried to learn as much as I could from observation and I seemed to mess up stability - I rather go in with an idea of what to do so I can get the best experience possible).

Cost is a factor too. Perris seems more expensive. However, it seems to be a difference of a few hundred bucks, but I am still factoring in everything (which websites don't always do), so it may actually be about the same price, give or take - I still have research to do. I will gladly pay more for the best training, but who doesn't want to save some cash where possible?

As for distance, I live in the south bay. Perris and Elsinore are about equally far apart from my front door. To get to Perris, traffic is generally better. But if I am serious about this, I don't think an extra half hour or so of sitting in traffic is something to worry about. So distance/driving is not much of a factor.

So, with all that background, here is my question. Which DZ in the LA area is best recommended? Considering that I have been to Perris and liked the people, it is definitely an option. How Elsinore is described, it seems to fit my personality more. I have also looked at Taft (my boss did a tandem there and described it in similar terms to how Elsinore has been depicted). I won't be able to do the AFF1 until December, at earliest (darn bills), so I still have plenty of time to research everything. I just wanted a more knowledgeable opinion given my situation.

Happy landings one and all and I hope to meet you shortly! Thanks for your help!

Peter

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Stop doing tandems. Tandems are a great intro to the sport and can be part of a really good progression program but if you have made the decision to do AFF then get with it. When you have twenty jumps you will see what I mean. I have jumped at both Perris and Elsinore a couple of times, not enough to be intimate with their programs, but I have been around enough to know that you are very lucky to have to choose between two centres with such good reputations. My own opinion is that if Perris can give you an AFF program that is integrated with the tunnel then that should be so head and shoulders above anything else available that that should be the decider. If you want to jump at Elsinore after that then do that.

[kelpdiver 2]

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My own opinion is that if Perris can give you an AFF program that is integrated with the tunnel then that should be so head and shoulders above anything else available that that should be the decider. If you want to jump at Elsinore after that then do that.

Elsinore can arrange the tunnel work within AFF as well, so that aspect is a wash.

But if you've already connected with the Perris people, go ahead and do it there. Come out to Elsinore after you're clear for solo. If there really a price difference? I'd expect them to be dead even with each other being 20 minutes apart.

I did some AFF jumps and tunnel with Perris. Was just fine. These days if I travel to see my family in OC I'll jump at Elsinore. I like the people and I like the lake view.

[docdialtone 0]

I'm not sure why you were told not to go to San Marcos but it is a really good DZ. A Super Otter, lots of great staff, instructors and fun jumpers.

I've never been to Coupland but they're ad on USPA says they only have a Cesna 206.

SSM is the best DZ in Central Texas!!!

[PhreeZone 15]

Listen to Andrew. Don't do any more tandems, start doing jumps that will get you jumping on your own.
AFF at either DZ will be a great option. If you've never been to Elsinore then head over there for an afternoon with out jumping. Hang out for a bit, meet the people and see if the attitude is what you though it would be or if its completely different. Make your decision based on that. The tunnel at Perris is a huge boost, I've seen some Elsinore instructors post that they have taken some of their students that are having issues to it to help them out even.

In TX, San Marcos is a nice DZ, I've jumped there a dozen times or so and its a friendly place.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

A lot of folks have said quit doing Tandems... If you want to keep doing Tandems at all these places you plan to visit, okay, its your money, but at the same time you say cost is an issue? I don't follow your logic? You're worried about AFF being a bit more expensive at Perris vs. Elsinore (et all... I'm not sure if that's fact or fiction, just going with what the OP said), but you want to spend a bunch more money on Tandems for basically what amounts to "checking out" other DZs? I don't get it? You may want to rethink that one.

As for wind tunnels, I'm fairly neutral about them. Great tool, obviously, but there are still lots and lots of folks skydiving today and still lots of folks learning to skydive without ever having set foot in a wind tunnel.

If you really want to do AFF, welcome aboard. My 2 cents... you don't have to do it "right now", but get started on it sooner then later and commit to getting through the AFF progression in a timely manner. After you get off of AFF, get your own gear, get your A-License and get a few jumps under your belt... then a whole new world of skydiving opens up where you can go visit other DZs. In SoCal, the opportunities for that are abundant.

Good Luck!

[stratostar 5]

Don't for get to check out Jim Wallace's skydiving school @ Perris Valley, for price and vibe. Yea that other school on the dz.

Jim Wallace Skydiving School is a full service skydiving operation specializing in tandem and aff skydives and student parachuting activities.
www.jimwallaceskydiving.com

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[steveorino 7]

Since you enjoy tandems, you might see if anyone of them over an intergrated program where you can do a 1 or 2 "working" tandems before you go to solo AFF.

steveOrino

[aubma 0]

First off, thanks for the advice everyone. I think I will check out the people at Elsinore in the near future and get a better idea of that DZ.

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A lot of folks have said quit doing Tandems... If you want to keep doing Tandems at all these places you plan to visit, okay, its your money, but at the same time you say cost is an issue? I don't follow your logic? You're worried about AFF being a bit more expensive at Perris vs. Elsinore (et all... I'm not sure if that's fact or fiction, just going with what the OP said), but you want to spend a bunch more money on Tandems for basically what amounts to "checking out" other DZs? I don't get it? You may want to rethink that one.

I understand the point of saving money not doing tandems. But I have 2 reasons for willing to delay doing AFF in favor of tandems. 1 - it is a social thing. Visiting friends in TX and doing something I enjoy is worth the cost. Particularly when it is with friends I only see once or twice a year. Also, I have done my 2 tandems alone, so I want to experience it with others as well. As for the Santa Barbara jump - that is trying to regenerate my social life, which took a huge hit for very stupid reasons recently (apparently half my "friends" thought I shouldn't be allowed to date anyone - and were willing to end a friendship over it). My 2nd reason is I am not completely sold on skydiving. When at home thinking about it, I get anxious. Once at the DZ, all fear vanishes and I have enjoyed the entire experience - even the 1-2 hours of waiting my turn to do a tandem. However, I want to get more comfortable with the sport before making plans to get my A license and buy a rig.

And cost is only an issue right now because I just had to take my car to the shop and my mom does not like the idea of skydiving so she insists on me finishing paying a debt I owe her. So I can't afford AFF right now, but I can afford spacing out a couple of tandems before my xmas bonus, which should be able to pay for a significant portion of the AFF. And I did more detailed research on cost between the 2 DZs (still need to look into Jim Wallace). Perris is slightly more expensive ($10 more/jump without a package deal, $36 more with the cheapest package), so not really an amount worth worrying about to me.

With all that said, I'll be checking out Elsinore and getting a feel for the people there. Thanks again for the advice!

[atsaubrey 0]

Definately take a look at Elsinore. the VIBE is awesome. If you liked the people at Perris then you will definately like Elsinore, I personally like Elsinore over Perris for my own reasons. You have to make that decision though but go and check it out, you can't go wrong with either DZ.

"GOT LEAD?"

[Kiki32 1]

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Come out to Elsinore after you're clear for solo. If there really a price difference? I'd expect them to be dead even with each other being 20 minutes apart.

Noooooo! If you start your license at Perris, then stay at Perris. Im on solo student status myself and I went to Elsinore to do a solo and quickly left when I saw the price difference.

At perris, you can rent sport gear as a student (all day rentals) and pay the normal 22 dollar jump ticket price for each jump. At Elsinore they wont let solo students rent sport gear all day. They make you use their student gear AND their packers (I know how to pack so I dont need that) so that totalled 56 dollars per jump.

For me, since I own my own gear and can pack myself, this makes no sense for me to jump for 56 dollars when I can just go to perris and pay 22 dollars.

Sucks cause I reeeeally love the vibe at Elsinore and wanted to jump there. But I think Ill wait until Im done with my license before I go back.

Poetry don't work on whores.

[Kiki32 1]

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and my mom does not like the idea of skydiving so she insists on me finishing paying a debt I owe her.

OMG!! Thats MY mom!! She's doing the same thing to me which is why I just dont tell her anything anymore. "Where you going?" "Oh just to hang out with some friends."

Do our moms honestly think they can keep us out of the sport by collecting debts? If I wanna jump, Ill jump!

Poetry don't work on whores.

[kelpdiver 2]

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For me, since I own my own gear and can pack myself, this makes no sense for me to jump for 56 dollars when I can just go to perris and pay 22 dollars.

Elsinore won't let you jump your own gear as a student? When I did a refresher in the spring and had to do an AFF-7, they discounted my price by the rental value. But I wasn't really a student, just coming back from a layoff.

Isn't that all day rate at Square1 80-90$? Or are you thinking about that nice rent to buy program that they have? Otherwise, you're paying a lot more than 22/jump. I was only good for 2-4 jumps a day at that point (and usually the lower end), so the all day rate wouldn't save me money.

[skybytch 259]

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1 - it is a social thing.

So go to the dz with them. When they ask why you aren't jumping, tell them you're saving for AFF. You won't see them in freefall or be able to communicate with them under canopy so your jump won't be any different than the two you've already done.

As for regenerating your social life - if you get hooked on skydiving you won't have time to spend with whuffo friends anyway. Fuck 'em.

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My 2nd reason is I am not completely sold on skydiving.

More tandems won't make you less scared. More tandems won't "sell" you on skydiving.

You don't have to pay for a complete AFF course up front. You can do it paying for one jump at a time.

So go to a dz, pay for and do an AFF level one. You'll be pretty sure if skydiving is for you or not by the time you land.

You'll probably continue to be anxious about skydiving until you have quite a few jumps under your belt. This is normal. It's not exactly natural to throw yourself at the ground at a high rate of speed, relying on some fabric and lines (the functions of which you don't quite completely understand yet) to save you.

[tonka 2]

You could always come to Skydive Taft. We are smaller but real friendly. (hang out and BBQ or go out to dinner on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday after jumping)

Much of our jumping is fun jumpers. (Not a tandem factory) There are always people willing to jump with new skydivers and help them get their stuff signed off.

Our prices were also just lowered. We also have a kick ass Super Otter. Got satellite radio and gets 22 jumpers to 14,000 in 15 minutes.

Well have fun jumping man.

If I had to recommend Elsinore or Perris id say Perris because they got da tunnel, square1, and the Bomb Shelter.

Peace and Blue Skies

[Kiki32 1]

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For me, since I own my own gear and can pack myself, this makes no sense for me to jump for 56 dollars when I can just go to perris and pay 22 dollars.

Elsinore won't let you jump your own gear as a student? When I did a refresher in the spring and had to do an AFF-7, they discounted my price by the rental value. But I wasn't really a student, just coming back from a layoff.

Isn't that all day rate at Square1 80-90$? Or are you thinking about that nice rent to buy program that they have? Otherwise, you're paying a lot more than 22/jump. I was only good for 2-4 jumps a day at that point (and usually the lower end), so the all day rate wouldn't save me money.

They wouldnt let me jump my gear/rented gear. Had to be their stuff. They agreed to knock the packjob off the price bringing it down to 50 but thats still too rich for my blood. They also wanted me to do a refresher course despite my logbook stating that my last jump had been just 2 weeks prior. Just seemed too much of a hassle so I just drove to perris. I guess if a solo student wanted to do just 1-2 jumps theyd save money at elsinore but if they wanted to do 4,5,6 it would be cheaper to do it at perris.

Poetry don't work on whores.

[MarkM 0]

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However, I want to get more comfortable with the sport before making plans to get my A license and buy a rig.

Pay for AFF as you go and you can quit anytime. Buy a used rig after AFF, and if you don't want to be in the sport after jumping for a bit more, you can resell the rig for pretty much what you paid for it.

[atsaubrey 0]

I would agree that you couldn't go wrong with Taft either. Smaller DZ but the vibe is awesome and the Otter kicks ass!

"GOT LEAD?"

[lewmonst 0]

I work in Perris, so of course I'm going to say come to Perris. But if you can come during the week, you will get a lot more personal attention. Weekends are fine if that's the only time you have, it's fun to be around when it's busy. But as for learning on a more personal level, weekdays are better. Yes, we are the bigger busier dropzone, but we also have otters (the big jump planes) flying every day. Getting a load up is almost never a problem. All of the instructors here are excellent. And we have a restaurant/bar, pool, windtunnel, bigger store with more gear rental options.

If you have any questions, let me know, I'm an instructor at the school in Perris. Elsinore is great too, they especially throw great parties... check out Chicks Rock there.

Karen

http://www.exitshot.com

[Kiki32 1]

What she said.


...Hi Karen.

Poetry don't work on whores.

[TheBachelor 4]

I've made about 900 jumps at Elsinore, and about 300 at Perris. My wife did her AFF at Elsinore. Right now, I mostly jump at Perris since they have bigger groups going up with the Load Organizers.

All of that being said, my vote would be to do your AFF at Elsinore. I agree with others that the cost should be a wash since they're so close together. The people at Elsinore set up a tunnel session for my wife, and went with her to give her coaching, so once again that's a wash.

Why Elsinore then? The vibe. Perris is a high-volume operation. That's great for them, but I think you get a much more personal vibe at Elsinore. They're smaller, and in my experience, you get to know the instructors better than at Perris.

Both places are safe, well-run operations.

Someone else mentioned Jim Wallace's school at Perris. They're the smallest of the three, and I don't think you could go wrong by going there either. I only know a few people on his staff, but they're all good.

There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years...

[mbondvegas 0]

Both DZ's are great. You would be in good hands at both.

Elsinore is a more relaxed and open group and I think that helps make you feel comfortable which can help in AFF. Also, Elsinore has some of the best instructors anywhere. If your lucky, you'll be under the instruction of Tom Riddick who is the best instructor I've ever met (in or out of skydiving). He has 39+ years of experience has an incredible love for the sport and a love for sharing his knowledge. Mark, Smitty and Matt are top notch guys too.

- - -
I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

[tbrown 26]

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Don't for get to check out Jim Wallace's skydiving school @ Perris Valley, for price and vibe. Yea that other school on the dz.

Jim Wallace Skydiving School is a full service skydiving operation specializing in tandem and aff skydives and student parachuting activities.
www.jimwallaceskydiving.com

What he said about Jim Wallace. He's so respected that Perris allows the guy to compete for business with them, on their dropzone and with their airplanes. And Jim is one of the most gracious gentlemen I've ever met in this sport.

As far as pricing goes, I think Jim charges the same as the Perris school. Not absolutely sure about this, but I think part of the deal that allows his school to co-exist is that he doesn't get into a price war with the Perris school.

One difference with Jim is that I've heard his is the ONLY one of the three schools that requires a tunnel session before allowing you to move on to your Level 4. The other two schools, Perris & Elsinore, will encourage and help arrange tunnel time, but Jim has made it a requirement. And by the way, a friend of mine who completed AFF at Elsinore last year took a tunnel session between his Level 3 and Level 4 jumps and thought it made the difference that allowed him to pass all of his levels without a single failure.

Compared to other parts of the country, skydiving and training are more expensive in So. Cal, but that's just the local economy - everything's more expensive down here. But for the quality of staff, facilities, aircraft, and the weather (or right, did I mention the year 'round weather ?), you can't do better than any of these 3 schools.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[jimjumper 25]

I am full time instructor for Jim Wallace and we do not require tunnel time prior to level 4. We evaluate the student on an individual basis and recommend accordingly. Since 5 minutes of tunnel time is cheaper than repeating a level 4 we use it as an option for borderline students. We have had excellent results with this system.

[sagan 0]

I've spent my majority at time at Perris as when I got off student status I went the RW path and there seems to be more of that at Perris. If I was freeflying I'd probably go check out elsinore first.

I've had nothing but positive experiences at both places. I've also had good experiences with both the perris school and jim wallace's school. I haven't used the school at elsinore so I can't say.

-Patrick