Why is RIPCORD considered the best system for the Reserve, and the worst system for Main?

[skydiverek 56]

If RIPCORD is the best and safest for the reserve, wouldn't the same apply to main? We all trust our life to ripcord, yet zero experienced jumpers choose it for their main deployment...

Fashion, design, comfort, functionality?

Just stirring some pot

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[DShiznit 0]

Would you want to buy a new spring loaded PC/freebag for every jump on your main?

[skydiverek 56]

I did not mention freebag - just ripcord activated system, just like the one students use on their main (bag and PC stay with the canopy).

[skybytch 259]

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yet zero experienced jumpers choose it for their main deployment...

Untrue. There are still jumpers out there who have and use rigs with main ripcords.

This has been debated here recently.

[davelepka 4]

Are you serious?

A main deployment system needs to be easy to repack, and is designed to be used in a specific situation (as in belly to the wind, at about terminal velocity).

The reserve deployment system does not need to be easy to repack, and is designed to be functional in a variety of situations.

Two different applications, two different solutions.

[jerry81 10]

Check this recent thread. I'd say it covers your question quite well.

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[skydiverek 56]

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Untrue. There are still jumpers out there who have and use rigs with main ripcords.

This has been debated here recently.

OK, 99% of experienced jumpres do not use Ripcord on their main. Happy ?

I know it was debated, I couldn't find that thread, but from what I remember, it was about Ripcord in general, and in this thread I wanted to confront the use of ripcord on the reserve with the use on main.

[MarkM 0]

Ripcord systems are good for when you're in an unstable body position. They were used on student rigs most everywhere up until recently because of that. You have a good chance of being unstable when you're pulling your reserve.

As an experienced jumper pulling your main you're likely in a stable body position. Ripcord systems have minor quirks(PC in your burble, having to hold your ripcord) that BOC systems don't have so people prefer BOC on the main.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Because the FAA requires ripcords for the reserve.

Derek

[nicknitro71 0]

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Fashion, design, comfort, functionality?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes!

I don't think as a main canopy activation ripcord are any safer (at least for semi-experienced jumpers), (you don't see ripcords in BASE), flame away! Think PC hesitation. I have one every jump I make with student gear due to my pronounced arch. I pull wait and then I have to rotated a little to get it out the burble. Usually students don't have this problem because they tend to fly flat with their legs apart and they oscillate more.

Anyhow, I think hand-deployed PCs are, at this point in time, are the most effective deployment method. The drawback is that you need to know how to operate it properly; with a spring loaded all you have to do is pull, that's way you don't see hand deployed bail-out rigs, usually aerobatic pilots are not skydivers...

Memento Audere Semper

903

[riggerrob 558]

This subject has been debated long and loud on other forums.
Reserves use ripcords because they are AAD and RSL compatible and most governments require them.
As for the main ripcord vs. hand-deploy debate ... 6 of one and half-a-dozen of the other.
In my mind, the only advantage to main ripcords is that you can install AADs (FXC 12000 or KAP 3), but they have a long list of disadvantages. For example, the rig we built for former US President George Bush Senior had the most complicated main ripcord installation I have ever seen with handles on both sides, an FXC12000 AAD and a spring-loaded pilot chute. It was too loop length sensitive to ever allow your average packing slave to replace loops.
Given the "6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen of another" nature of the dilemma, the better civilian schools teach their students how to deploy main parachutes using the same method they will use for their next 1,000 jumps.
The alternative is returning to the high rate of "transition" fatalities we used to have in the 1970s and 1980s.

[Designer 0]

Evolution

[crazydiver 0]

A spring loaded main pilot chute will affect the way all, and especially smaller, canopies fly. Shortens the recovery arc, distorts the wing, increases drag...

Cheers,
Travis

[wmw999 2,148]

Some of the evolution was pure laziness. Having packed both (in the same rig, no less), I can assure you that a hand-deploy is easier to pack than a ripcord rig. At least it was for me, and I'd packed quite a few ripcord rigs.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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yet zero experienced jumpers choose it for their main deployment...

Untrue. There are still jumpers out there who have and use rigs with main ripcords.

This has been debated here recently.

Mike "Michigan" Sandberg still uses a spring loaded PC and ripcord as far as I know. There are at least two older jumpers (with new gear) that jump ripcords here at Raeford as well.

[RogerRamjet 0]

Since I made the first jump on one, I will add my 2 cents worth...

The original hand-deploy system was entirely about eliminating hesitations. It had the nice side effect of easier packing and less bulk in the rig. The Wonderhog of the time used an external wrap-around spring loaded pilot chute and we were already closing the container with a loop of the PC's bridle, so the transition was easy from that standpoint.

As for the pilot chute effecting the flight characteristics of the chute. When the hand-deploy came out, most people were still jumping rounds and the squares of the day were pretty much not effected by the pilot chute. On my Strato-Star, I made a cotton deployment bag that would invert on opening and envelope the pilot chute (I still like this better than the collapsable PC used today simply because there was nothing to forget like cocking the PC). If you go to the photo's section of this website and look under my username, you can see my Strato-Star in flight with the bag over the pilot chute.

Various tries were made at hand-deploy on reserves (though not at Booths shop while I was there), but there are just too many issues to overcome (some of them talked about in this thread).

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Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

[billvon 2,433]

> If RIPCORD is the best and safest for the reserve, wouldn't the same apply to main?

Different design goals. Reserves are designed to be sealable for up to 120 days at a time, and require almost zero maintenance. A reserve you can't tamper with is a plus too. It is supposed to deploy rapidly in any body position, and most modern reserves must be deployable by cutting a loop if the jumper wants a cypres. It's OK if it takes an hour to pack as a result.

Main systems are designed to be deployed while stable, be easy to pack, and have collapsible pilot chutes. Tiny systems are a plus.

[riggermick 6]

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Because the FAA requires ripcords for the reserve.

Derek

No they don't. Nowhere does it apear in writing that a ripcord is "required" for any cerified equipment.

SAE 8015 b 2.11 g,reads: Primary activation device (ripcord OR fonctional equivalent, including reserve static line, if used).


Many years ago there was a rig called the Woomera from Austraila that used a pullout pilot chute reserve deployment mechanisim. Bounced quite a few people as I recall. I don't believe that it was TSO'd in the US, although if it went through the process required it could have dispite it's unusual reserve deployment system.


Mick.

[JerryBaumchen 1,064]

Some time in the early '70's (as I recall) Pioneer came out with a 'Jerry Bird' rig. It had a chest pack that closed ONLY with velcro. I always wondered how it would hold up over the years with usage. I never went anywhere, so the question never got answered.

[JerryBaumchen 1,064]

Let's try that again; 'It never went anywhere,'

Sorry for not proof-reading before submitting.

[billbooth 10]

There are two simple reasons why we don't use hand deploy pilot chutes on reserves nowadays. AAD's couldn't be used, and spring loaded pilot chutes cannot be make collapsible. By the way, the original Vector was designed with a hand deployed reserve system. In practice, however, it didn't work out.

[mjosparky 3]

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There are two simple reasons why we don't use hand deploy pilot chutes on reserves nowadays. AAD's couldn't be used, and spring loaded pilot chutes cannot be make collapsible. By the way, the original Vector was designed with a hand deployed reserve system. In practice, however, it didn't work out.

Bill,

I seem to remember the original "Wonderhog" had a spring loaded, External P/C with the pin on the jumper side of the rig.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billbooth 10]

I'm talking about the original Vector from 1979. The original Wonderhog dates from 1972.

[mjosparky 3]

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I'm talking about the original Vector from 1979. The original Wonderhog dates from 1972.

Did you keep one for the archives/museum? It was a classic.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[RogerRamjet 0]

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I'm talking about the original Vector from 1979. The original Wonderhog dates from 1972.

I know my (our) memory isn't what it used to be Bill, but... When I met you in Deland, you showed me the prototype Wonderhog and I went to work for you the next weekend to make the first 100+ Wonderhogs at which point Silly, Bobby, and Susie joined in. I left around number 125 or so as I remember it.

I made my first jump on July 1st, 1973 and had about 300 jumps when I moved to Miami to work for you. That would have put the first Wonderhog that I made for you at around September of 1974. Does that sound about right?

I too would love to see an original Wonderhog again. For those reading this that weren't around in those days, you probably can't imagine just how revolutionary the Wonderhog was. I was occasionally jumping a Pioneer pig rig then. Imagine a belly mount wart reserve put on the back above a large bulky main container on a harness with all the adjustments you can think of. Then weigh it with a 28' "cheapo" and a 26' Navy Conical reserve and marvel at the 53lbs of it!

Then one day you meet this guy Bill Booth at Deland during a meet and he shows you his new Wonderhog. It is wedge shaped, has plastic ripcords with the main pilot chute wrapped around the outside of the main container. The harness is custom fit for the jumper and the whole thing weighs 23lbs with the same canopies in it! No metal ripcords, no pins, no cones. The "ripcord" handles were orange PVC. I was stunned. Working as a rigger at Z-Hills, I had seen just about every kind of rig made come through there, but nothing remotely like this baby. I wanted one and when Bill said he was looking for someone to build them for him, I just said "ok."

When I see people talk about Bill on these forums, it's usually about Hand-Deploy or 3-Ring, etc. But, Bill started all this with a "total rig concept" that seems to get lost in the details these days. There was simply no other skydiving "system" like it at the time.

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Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519